95 5.9 cummins

[KMMAC]

looking at thomas school bus with the cummins.. Took it for a test drive and it didn't seem to have any low end torque.. Talked to a friend of mine who said change the fuel filters but this one is only using a single,, it has the double housing but what I would call the primary or first filter in line from the tank has a block off bowl. I'm willing to buy a fuel filter to see if that is the problem but do you think this setup has a lift pump in the tank?? The fuel tank is close to the engine compartment it's just behind the entry door. If it does have a lift pump,, where do you buy to get the best deal. This guy bought it from a school district in Iowa and drove it here last year and it has been parked since.. I want it for shop/storage was going to buy a trailer but think this is a better route. The bus has 115000 mi. on it. The engine started right up and I thought I read some where that if the lift pump is bad that the engine starts hard not sure on that though.. When I loaded the engine it didn't emit black smoke like I thought it would.. It smoked blue from the time I started it until it warmed up a bit, not bad at idle but when I stepped on the pedal it smoked quite a bit but only at first..

ANY help would be appreciated Thanks

 

[One]

Blue smoke upon warmup is normal. It shouldn't blow black hardly at all in stock config; when you loaded it were you in neutral or in gear? Mine blows like crazy in gear but not much at all in neutral, and it's pretty built.

Not sure on the lift pump, never looked at one not in a pickup.

As far as torque goes I don't know that you'd feel it much dragging that much steel around.

 

[KMMAC]

thanks

Blue smoke upon warmup is normal. It shouldn't blow black hardly at all in stock config; when you loaded it were you in neutral or in gear? Mine blows like crazy in gear but not much at all in neutral, and it's pretty built.

Not sure on the lift pump, never looked at one not in a pickup.

As far as torque goes I don't know that you'd feel it much dragging that much steel around.

I had it in gear when I gave it more throttle, Knowing what that engine sounds like with a load on it, when lugging it this engine just seemed to want to die out I guess is the best way to describe it.. I have friends with this engine in their dodges pulling 12000 # excavators and they definitely have more power than this one does. Most of these guys have mostly stock engines.. The tag on the accessory drive says 190hp @ 2300. It just doesn't feel like it has any torque..

 

[relentless rider]

You did say its in a bus I assume its an auto? I don't know of to many school buses that set ya back in the seat ..I drove lots of 12 v cummins and in stock form there no power house. But with alittle work you got a runner. I'm looking at one now for throwing in a 79 ford.

 

[KMMAC]

5spd

You did say its in a bus I assume its an auto? I don't know of to many school buses that set ya back in the seat ..I drove lots of 12 v cummins and in stock form there no power house. But with alittle work you got a runner. I'm looking at one now for throwing in a 79 ford.

YA,, it's a 5er stick I took this thing out on the hiway and if not for a slight down hill I would never have reached 50. I have seen these on the road and I can tell that it is not running right just looking for some direction to trouble shoot from.. I drove an 89 12 V 3/4 ton 2wd with a bed full of construction stuff to the tune of 500# at least pulling a trailer with an 8k# roller and know that the motor in that truck had more power ..

 

[Mafesto]

If it does not seem to make any power as rpm increases, could it be turbo issue?

 

[KMMAC]

ya

If it does not seem to make any power as rpm increases, could it be turbo issue?

Maybe,, thought I heard it whistle though. I'm thinking fuel delivery just not sure if is filter or lift pump.....

 

[jerrydecoy]

I would lean towards fuel issue of some kind. Injection pump, lift pump or injectors. I could be wrong but I was under the impression that the 5.9 had to have a lift pump as the injection pump was not intended to pull fuel on its own.seems to me quite a few injection pump failures were caused by lift pump failure which in turn took out the injector pump. Ive owned 4 dodges and the two lift pump failures caused intermittent loss of power rather then no power but that was just my experience. Couldn't a guy take off a fuel line up by the motor and crank it to see if any fuel is moving?

 

[relentless rider]

lift pump isn't pushing enough fuel, bad injector pump is were id start. If the turbo was bad you would see more smoke from the exhaust and alot of times oil leaking from Turbo or exhaust. Good luck.

 

[snojunkee]

first place to start is fuel pressure, check it. you can go to the cummins diesel forum to read about how to do it. these motors have a tendency to slip timing also. both are easy to check.

 

[KMMAC]

Thanks for your help all of you!! Hadn't thought about timing. This thing is suffering from something fuel or now timing related.. I will look into checking fuel pressure and timing.. He wants 3500 for the whole thing and the body is good and tight and drove real good so with it only having 115000 miles on it sure seems worth messing with a little unless it's one or both of the pumps.. This is an awesome forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[slash]

The timing on the ISC 5.9 is too low for a pickup you will need to have it adjusted to 5.9mm at TDC this will bring up the bottom end ,but remember its in a bus thats alot heaver than the pickup If you need any help just PM me .I have a few years exp like 20 +

 

[swade-o]

You probably already checked but I did not see it listed so I figured I would ask just in case.... did you check the air intake or exhaust system for any restrictions? You mentioned that it has been parked since last year and you know what can happen with critters when things are just setting around.

As far as injection pump (IJ) timing it may have slipped but if the bus drove to where it was parked, and ran as it is suppose to, than the timing should be fine. By taking the CPL number on the engine ID tag you can look up to see what base timing should be. It is somewhat of a pain to check if you have never done it before but can be done. If injection timing is something you want to check there is a lot of info online to help show you how to do it.

Does the 1995 5.9 Cummins have the P7100 or A3000 injection pump (IP)? A fair share of the 5.9 Cummins in bus applications had the A3000 IP so that would be good to know as well in case you need to . Have you checked to see that you are getting full travel of injection pump linkage? Take the rod off and see if it is traveling from idle stop to full travel. As far as fuel supply fuel line pressure goes it should be close to 25 psi at idle and around 40 psi at 2,000 rpms. Check the supply pressure and see if you are close to those numbers.

I would begin with the basics of intake air, exhaust, fuel supply and then dig deeper into more involved casues. Once those are established as being ok then you have a base to work from.

 

[KMMAC]

Seems

You probably already checked but I did not see it listed so I figured I would ask just in case.... did you check the air intake or exhaust system for any restrictions? You mentioned that it has been parked since last year and you know what can happen with critters when things are just setting around.

As far as injection pump (IJ) timing it may have slipped but if the bus drove to where it was parked, and ran as it is suppose to, than the timing should be fine. By taking the CPL number on the engine ID tag you can look up to see what base timing should be. It is somewhat of a pain to check if you have never done it before but can be done. If injection timing is something you want to check there is a lot of info online to help show you how to do it.

Does the 1995 5.9 Cummins have the P7100 or A3000 injection pump (IP)? A fair share of the 5.9 Cummins in bus applications had the A3000 IP so that would be good to know as well in case you need to . Have you checked to see that you are getting full travel of injection pump linkage? Take the rod off and see if it is traveling from idle stop to full travel. As far as fuel supply fuel line pressure goes it should be close to 25 psi at idle and around 40 psi at 2,000 rpms. Check the supply pressure and see if you are close to those numbers.

I would begin with the basics of intake air, exhaust, fuel supply and then dig deeper into more involved casues. Once those are established as being ok then you have a base to work from.

Did listen to the exhaust ,, best I could the bus is 35 feet long and it didn't sound restricted as with the intake side. I have a suspicion that it is fuel delivery at this point I am not willing to spend any money trouble shooting for some one else for free.. Unless this guy was to discount the price about 1800 to cover parts alone.. I'm sure that is a low estimate but not real familiar with 5.9 yet.. If I ever own one before the engine cools after the first time I drive it home I will know most of what I can to work on it myself..
Thanks for all of the info.. I now know more about the 5.9 that I thought I would which will give some insight when I shop for a Dodge .. Thanks again............

 

[KMMAC]

The timing on the ISC 5.9 is too low for a pickup you will need to have it adjusted to 5.9mm at TDC this will bring up the bottom end ,but remember its in a bus thats alot heaver than the pickup If you need any help just PM me .I have a few years exp like 20 +

Thanks,, Gvwr is almost 18000 but this thing just wouldn't get out of it's own way. Like in an earlier post I stated out on the hiway it would barely reach 50 in about 1/4 mi..
That seems a little weak too me figuring it should pick up faster carrying kids.
Having driven this engine ia couple of pickups and a 5yd dump This engine make a sound when you drive them which i;m sure you can recognize you can tell just by that. I also use to operate a log skidder with this engine set at 190 hp and again the bus just doesn't have it..