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2020 Polaris

Buy the limit able throttle from the evo.

Put it on a 155 belt drive axys.

36” ski stance.

Pingle tether. (The only reliable option)

Done?
 
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I think you are wrong. But what would I know?



Amend that to “the only reasonable reliable option”



$300 is pretty steep for something electronic that can be had in bulletproof billet aluminum for $110.00.



But what would I know?

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I always wince a little when I see a kid riding a full-up RMK or Summit. Some kids can do a pretty good job, but ultimately it's either a waste of the machine or a big accident waiting to happen. One thing I'll say for the EVO RMK, it's a decent compromise – giving a kid more capability, but nothing excessive. It's just that dropping 50lb would probably be like having a 155 by comparison, and there'd be a better chance of a kid digging it out themselves if they had to.

Those old Indy Lites are pretty cool, I'd like to tinker with one. I do have all the parts I need to build an Indy Trail up with an EDGE chaincase and 136. Not really for a kid's sled, just want to see if I can build a fun lightweight sled. TRS on here has built up a couple iQ sleds around a similar concept: https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=362586&highlight=RMK+Lite. Just scroll down about halfway. Not sure what they weigh – I'm guessing significantly more than the EVO RMK – but the small engine, big track setup seems to work pretty well for his (very lucky) grandkids.

The market is always the tricky part. I still think the market for a kid's sled is too small to invest heavily in, but if you can combine that with an entry-level line you've got a much bigger audience. Just applying the techniques that make the RMK so light, but around a smaller engine and track, would go a long way without having to drive up costs because of R&D or exotic materials (although a carbon fiber sled would be really cool). A new motor wouldn't hurt either...

I've built several 340 Indy 'mountain lites' over the years and I still have two. One of these days I'll have to weigh them. I have a '99 and a '00 340 Indy Lite Deluxe with 136" x 1.25" track, new tunnel brackets (pulls the track down out of the tunnel), gripper skis and geared down. Top speed 45mph. A 60 lb kid can go just about wherever he wants on them. That said, I can't wait to get my hands on an EVO RMK . I think it will WAY outperform these two sleds: better throttle response, better brakes, better clutching, better handling, better ergos. I am willing to bet my 9 year old grandson will be sidehilling on that thing within days - something he can't do on the Indy's.

Maybe, just maybe it'll be heavier. Big deal - for all the reasons mentioned above it is going to be head and shoulders above the Indy's.

Which of us wants to give up our Axys to go back to way old tech just because the machine might have been lighter?
 
I've built several 340 Indy 'mountain lites' over the years and I still have two. One of these days I'll have to weigh them. I have a '99 and a '00 340 Indy Lite Deluxe with 136" x 1.25" track, new tunnel brackets (pulls the track down out of the tunnel), gripper skis and geared down. Top speed 45mph. A 60 lb kid can go just about wherever he wants on them. That said, I can't wait to get my hands on an EVO RMK . I think it will WAY outperform these two sleds: better throttle response, better brakes, better clutching, better handling, better ergos. I am willing to bet my 9 year old grandson will be sidehilling on that thing within days - something he can't do on the Indy's.

Maybe, just maybe it'll be heavier. Big deal - for all the reasons mentioned above it is going to be head and shoulders above the Indy's.

Which of us wants to give up our Axys to go back to way old tech just because the machine might have been lighter?

Put a 36” front end on an evo.
(I believe it’s a pro ride bulkhead)
 
Amend that to “the only reasonable reliable option”



$300 is pretty steep for something electronic that can be had in bulletproof billet aluminum for $110.00.



But what would I know?

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Does that one arm itself? Or do you have to hook it up/unhook it, manually, every time getting on and off the sled? It is worth the cost to many people. I'm sure you spend more on your boots that you replace every 2-3 years.
 
Sorry

Hey guys.

I apologize for feeding the troll.

Back to your regular program discussing Polaris 2020 sleds.

Maybe even BUDGET friendly kids sleds.

My 13 year old loves riding an axys 800. (Claims it much easier to sidehill than the indy trail 488 fan)
 
Put a 36” front end on an evo.
(I believe it’s a pro ride bulkhead)

Haha - I just looked up the specs on the old Indy Lites - 417 lbs! a whopping 3 lb difference which I'm sure I burned up by putting longer tracks on them!

I'm pretty sure it's a Pro bulklhead so narrowing up the ski stance shouldn't be too hard. Not sure how that might affect ride height.

Like I said - looking forward to getting my hands on one!

I have a 2008 340 that I just acquired - it weighs in at a whopping 475 lbs! (I might sideline that project in favor of the EVO)
 
Once light weight parts have been developed and tooled the production costs would not be much different than standard parts. (most all needed parts are on the shelf)

Piggybacking off something already developed is probably the only way to do it to keep prices even reasonable.. I'd guess this market is quite a bit less than 1k sleds annually and tooling is a huge chunk of change. I'd assume most suppliers wouldn't even spend the time to tool up for that low of volume and if they did, they would want to make it worth their while on piece price or NRE. I don't think it is as straightforward as you think..

Like you said, the kid is 85 lbs.. 120+ pounds lighter than most of us with Dad bods. I'd guess this thing will stay on top of the snow and keep up pretty good for what it is.
 
A buddy of mine said that there is roughly $2K extra on top of the discounted price for setup and other fees for the 2020 AC. Anyone else here that?

Cats states its snowcheck is listed price +$450 freight on each sled. If the dealer has setup and doc fees on top of that it's their choice. If you want a couple years extra warranty over the standard 1yr, then add another $500. So $450 freight + $500 extended warranty + $200 setup fee +$100 doc fee = $1250. Not sure how your buddy is getting to $2k extra unless he's including taxes or accessories. For guys that want to build mod sleds there's no sense getting the extra warranty so it's nice they are at least giving the buyers the choice.

Not sure what the margins are on the sleds this year, but I'm sure it's going to be like every year where some dealers charge MSRP plus whatever they can get away with and some will eat the setup and some of the fees as long as they are making a little money on the sale.
 
A buddy of mine said that there is roughly $2K extra on top of the discounted price for setup and other fees for the 2020 AC. Anyone else here that?

Seems to vary from dealer to dealer (as usual). There is one floating around facebook that the snowmagedden price is true out-the-door, only "fee" is $70 for paperwork. Others are adding freight, setup etc. No way 2k is right unless that was including tax, in which case any flavor will have that.
It is just 1 year warranty, anything past 1 year is a different company anyways and some would argue it isn't worth much if any mods are done. but it is a selling point for sure.
 
Seems to vary from dealer to dealer (as usual). There is one floating around facebook that the snowmagedden price is true out-the-door, only "fee" is $70 for paperwork. Others are adding freight, setup etc. No way 2k is right unless that was including tax, in which case any flavor will have that.

It is just 1 year warranty, anything past 1 year is a different company anyways and some would argue it isn't worth much if any mods are done. but it is a selling point for sure.
The first dealer he talked to was $2K over the discounted price others in the area where at $1,200 - $1,400 more than advertised. This is before tax. Again I am hearing this second hand not straight from the dealers. I only commented about this to see if this was what most are seeing or if this is just in my area. Thxs!!!
 
Piggybacking off something already developed is probably the only way to do it to keep prices even reasonable.. I'd guess this market is quite a bit less than 1k sleds annually and tooling is a huge chunk of change. I'd assume most suppliers wouldn't even spend the time to tool up for that low of volume and if they did, they would want to make it worth their while on piece price or NRE. I don't think it is as straightforward as you think..

Like you said, the kid is 85 lbs.. 120+ pounds lighter than most of us with Dad bods. I'd guess this thing will stay on top of the snow and keep up pretty good for what it is.

Piggy backing is the only way they can make a sled like this worth the build. My point is that they have Pro RMK light weight parts on the shelf and all the research, development, and tooling costs should all be paid for by now. Just pulling parts off the shelf seems pretty straight forward to me. The biggest item needed to cut more weight is the belt drive that will require different gearing around 2.6 to 1. This would require development and tooling costs. If that is too high for limited build there are vendors out there (TKI) that have 66/24 66/25 gearing on the shelf that is already proven with turbo HP applied to it. It would not be the first time a MFG went to the aftermarket for parts (M-10, Fox shocks Walker Evans shocks) to build a sled. They even market some of this outsourcing as premium upgrades. I was surprised to see them tool up for the smaller tank and seat as well as the smaller side panels on the EVO considering the low production # that everyone assumes. The new axis front end is narrow and most likely lighter also. There are probably many things I don't know about just using existing parts from the shelf and building a sled that works for a different market and smaller riders but it is just disappointing that they are so close but seem to have missed the mark that many like me was asking for.
I also agree the weight difference in ridders will allow this sled to perform better in spite of being 420 lbs but the smaller riders will still need to work much harder to ride that sled than Dad will on his 409 Lb sled off trail. A true .75 sled with a new motor is what I really wanted, but I gave up on that a long time ago after being realistic and considering all the R and D / tooling costs that most everyone in on this discussion has also noted.
Just for comparison I have a 1990 Indy star lite single cylinder 250CC short track. Not sure what the factory spec weight was on it but I placed it on some bathroom scales and it came out to 379 lbs full of oil empty on gas. That was what was achievable 29 years ago with a steel bulkhead and marketed as an affordable entry level sled. Asking for a sub 400 lb sled in 2019 seems like a reasonable request.
 
Speaking of piggy-backing, I started this before I saw Bushwacker's post, and he stole my thunder a bit, but NBD. :face-icon-small-hap I don't think anyone here is saying an Indy Lite would be a better sled to ride than an EVO. As for weight, if you want to keep patting Polaris on the back for the EVO, why don't you compare it to the later two-up GT at 434lb? But you'll want to stop reading here, because the earlier direct drive sleds started at 340lb, 367 for the twin (found here: https://www.snowmobile.com/manufacturers/polaris/1991-polaris-indy-lite-vintage-review-1083.html). The chaincase added around 10lb, but you're still over 30 less than the EVO (comparing to the lighter short track EVO for the sake of fairness). Like Bushwacker mentioned, the bulkhead was steel, not aluminum, and they all had metal skis. Not sure on the bulkhead, but plastic skis are 10+ fewer lbs, and would offset the weight of the chaincase. Swap over to a newer 144 skid and track, and you'll add around 10lb back? So I'm guessing you'd have no problem building a 380lb Indy Lite 144. Just trying to reenforce how light a sled can be when it's designed that way – even one built more to be cheap than light, and designed 30 years ago.

As for the rest of the EVO, you might want to temper your expectations a bit, especially with regard to the powertrain. The 550 dates back twenty years, and it's more of an upgraded version of the old old Fuji fan motors than anything you could call new. It's worth another 20HP, but otherwise the only big improvement is PERC; it's no smoother, more efficient, or long-lasting. I kind of doubt the CVTech clutch is anything to write home about either.

I totally agree about tooling up for some lighter-weight components. As long as it can be spread across several models, not just the EVO, they will eventually profit. Not to mention every pound they cut makes a sled more competitive. A belt drive similar to the quick-drive, but built for half the power would save even more weight, and maybe cost no more than a chaincase. You could take metal out of the belly pan and bulkhead because you haven't got as much stress from a smaller motor. There's no shortage of small things they could do. I'd bet the 365lb 550 pro mentioned earlier has been built, and further, I'd bet a ground-up design could take off at least another 15. That's the chassis you'd want for a smaller rider, but I think we all recognize it could only happen if they could sell as well as, say, the Pro-RMKs. That said, the first half of the weight-shedding is probably a quarter of the cost and effort, and I'd like to see them move that way. I hope the goal is at least a sub-400lb EVO RMK. Maybe if it sells well, we'll see it. So I take it all back; it's a great sled, and everyone should buy their kid one. Then, if and when I have kids, we'll have a 350lb EFI EVO RMK for <$5000! :face-icon-small-ton
 
Anyone know if the 850 is snowcheck only again for 2020?

In fact, hearsay has it that the ONLY engine that will be available in season will be the 800.

All 850's, 600's and 550's will be snowcheck or spring order by the dealer. This is according to someone who just got back from the dealer show.

That does not mean there won't be 550's and 600's available during the season. It means that the dealers will have to pre-order whatever they want/ need/ are required to take this spring and whatever they get in inventory is what they will have. There will be no more. Polaris will only build enough to fill those orders.

Evidently this is due to the huge popularity of the 800 RMK even among snowbelt riders which has driven down all other unit sales across the board.

For what it's worth ....
 
In fact, hearsay has it that the ONLY engine that will be available in season will be the 800.

All 850's, 600's and 550's will be snowcheck or spring order by the dealer. This is according to someone who just got back from the dealer show.

That does not mean there won't be 550's and 600's available during the season. It means that the dealers will have to pre-order whatever they want/ need/ are required to take this spring and whatever they get in inventory is what they will have. There will be no more. Polaris will only build enough to fill those orders.
850 is Snowcheck only in that dealers aren't allowed to order them just for stock. Need to be snowchecked by consumers....same as last year.

As far as the rest of it...that is nothing new at all? Dealers have always (or at least for many years) completed their entire sled order in the spring. One shot deal...other than that you can trade among dealers and so forth. That's not "snowcheck" tho ...just the stocking order
 
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