hillclimbers will use a sled designed to transfer more? I don't think so.
2020 Polaris
- Thread starter RMK-King
- Start date
Okay, maybe not. But do we have a comparison yet of the Assault and KHAOS mounting positions?
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I'm guessing it makes great video footage. If that sells sleds, then go for it.
I usually pay around 2 to 3 grand less than msrp on my snowcheck polaris'... so not sure why anyone in their right mind would pay msrp which would not make it 3 grand more than an alpha...
Was excited to see the EVO RMK. Very disappointed at the dry weight also. I get that they are trying to hit a price point that may not allow for the weight to be in the 375 Lb range even though it is possible. I have took every opportunity available to me to suggest they offer a snow check option to pay extra for a Pro RMK package to get the EVO down under 400 lbs but they must not have heard me. Seems kind of silly to put a kid on a sled that weighs more than the one Dad rides when they are half your size and weight. They continue to talk talk talk about how I can order my sled with choice of color, track, and shock options, but they just cant seem to be able to figure out how to offer any options for an entry level sled. The parts are on the shelf guys, how about just offering them up snow check only so the consumer can decide if the extra cash is worth it. Other than that the EVO RMK is a good start that I am sure they will have refined by the time my kids are riding 600 cc sleds. Again hope Polaris reads these threads.
C
CForest
Member
you must have a lot better dealers than we do around here. It may not be full on msrp but damn close to it by the time they get all the setup and bs that comes along with it. Maybe throw in an extra belt ha
If I could book a axys 850 for 11,595 I would likely do it....
Khaos = Wheelies
Khaos = Wheelies. Pass. Thanks though.
I'm hoping Polaris forces their dealers to buy a billion of these things so that I can get as good of a deal on it in two years as I just got on a 2018.
https://snowmobiles.polaris.com/en-us/rmk/800-pro-rmk-155/specs/
that Grey is really pretty, and I would love to get the React narrow front end.
Khaos = Wheelies. Pass. Thanks though.
I'm hoping Polaris forces their dealers to buy a billion of these things so that I can get as good of a deal on it in two years as I just got on a 2018.
https://snowmobiles.polaris.com/en-us/rmk/800-pro-rmk-155/specs/
that Grey is really pretty, and I would love to get the React narrow front end.
J
Jaynelson
Well-known member
Offering different combos has a cost on its own, it’s not like ordering a pizza unfortunately. Look at bikes...Honda, yamaha, Suzuki, kawi have all been offering the same heavy, slow, air cooled carb kids bikes for years. 1 colour a piece, no options. Why? Keeps the price down to actually keep the sport family friendly, and they actually sell. KTM makes pimp kids bikes that cost twice as much, weigh half as much, perform 3 times better...and sell a fraction of the volume. Lightweight parts are the biggest price tickets, unfortunately. Most kids can’t use the performance anyways...they just want to have fun and try out the sport. Only the parents are on the Internet worrying about the pieces and parts
EVO
I agree that to meet a price point they will be limited on what they can offer. The sled industry is unique though. Polaris has proven that limited build snow checks is possible and would not keep offering it if it was not working for them. If there are costs involved the consumer continues to accept them by ordering on the program. In my conversations with folks from Polaris I have found if you ask the correct questions and listen closely to the answers they stop short of saying it but they have built a 365 lb 550 pro. Once light weight parts have been developed and tooled the production costs would not be much different than standard parts. (most all needed parts are on the shelf) Yes carbon fiber costs more and I suspect it only saves 1 or 2 pounds on the Pro Rmk so that could be forgone on this sled. A belt drive should not cost any more than a chain case to build except for the cost of new gearing options that folks have been asking for anyway. For limited builds this could be addressed thru an aftermarket vendor that already has done the R/D. How much risk is there truly in offering a light weight version for an upcharge that is snow check only for the few consumers willing to place an order? Call me an internet dad if you want but also include everyone else that believes they need a 409 lb RMK for a full grown rider to ride in the deep snow because they have all been fooled that power to weight does matter. It is just silly to think we should put an 85 pound kid on a sled that weighs more than the one I ride and call that good enough. Corporate has put so much on making money today they have forgot that they need to invest a little to grow the sport down the road. Look at HD and how they are now trying to figure out why they cant make it only selling 20K bikes and the road they took to get to that point. Could be different these days but most people I know were exposed to snowmobiles at a young age and very few waited till they were grown adults to get into the sport cold and then drop 10k plus on their first sled. I am glad Polaris has finally stepped up and is currently the only one to address this market but it would not take much for another MFG to snag it from them by offering a true mountain sled, and then own it and the brand loyalty that goes with it for future sled sales.
Offering different combos has a cost on its own, it’s not like ordering a pizza unfortunately. Look at bikes...Honda, yamaha, Suzuki, kawi have all been offering the same heavy, slow, air cooled carb kids bikes for years. 1 colour a piece, no options. Why? Keeps the price down to actually keep the sport family friendly, and they actually sell. KTM makes pimp kids bikes that cost twice as much, weigh half as much, perform 3 times better...and sell a fraction of the volume. Lightweight parts are the biggest price tickets, unfortunately. Most kids can’t use the performance anyways...they just want to have fun and try out the sport. Only the parents are on the Internet worrying about the pieces and parts
I agree that to meet a price point they will be limited on what they can offer. The sled industry is unique though. Polaris has proven that limited build snow checks is possible and would not keep offering it if it was not working for them. If there are costs involved the consumer continues to accept them by ordering on the program. In my conversations with folks from Polaris I have found if you ask the correct questions and listen closely to the answers they stop short of saying it but they have built a 365 lb 550 pro. Once light weight parts have been developed and tooled the production costs would not be much different than standard parts. (most all needed parts are on the shelf) Yes carbon fiber costs more and I suspect it only saves 1 or 2 pounds on the Pro Rmk so that could be forgone on this sled. A belt drive should not cost any more than a chain case to build except for the cost of new gearing options that folks have been asking for anyway. For limited builds this could be addressed thru an aftermarket vendor that already has done the R/D. How much risk is there truly in offering a light weight version for an upcharge that is snow check only for the few consumers willing to place an order? Call me an internet dad if you want but also include everyone else that believes they need a 409 lb RMK for a full grown rider to ride in the deep snow because they have all been fooled that power to weight does matter. It is just silly to think we should put an 85 pound kid on a sled that weighs more than the one I ride and call that good enough. Corporate has put so much on making money today they have forgot that they need to invest a little to grow the sport down the road. Look at HD and how they are now trying to figure out why they cant make it only selling 20K bikes and the road they took to get to that point. Could be different these days but most people I know were exposed to snowmobiles at a young age and very few waited till they were grown adults to get into the sport cold and then drop 10k plus on their first sled. I am glad Polaris has finally stepped up and is currently the only one to address this market but it would not take much for another MFG to snag it from them by offering a true mountain sled, and then own it and the brand loyalty that goes with it for future sled sales.
I understand the argument that it's not worth purpose-building a sled for 10-15 year-old kids; it's not a big market, and may be more price-sensitive than most. Add to that the possibility that the kid is going to trash it, and I can see where spending more than the bare minimum isn't an easy sell. But it's not like it's just kids who trash sleds. Here's what I don't get though: why not at least invest a little R&D in some lighter components? Something like a low-HP belt drive for the 550. Then you could at least suck some weight out of existing sleds. I think part of the problem is that the EVO line is targeted for a 75% rider – someone weighing less and needing less power than a full-size rider – while most of the components are unchanged from the full-size sled.
A 350lb sled is easily in the realm of possibility, but would likely cost $8k or more (and might lose money if they couldn't sell as many as a $6k sled). So I understand that's not going to happen. What is much more feasible is designing a smaller/lighter chassis to underpin all the entry-level lines, maybe call it the Indy chassis. There's no reason the basic Indy should weigh nearly 450lb, any more than a sled designed for kids should be 420. I can't say the numbers are there, but there is still a market. If it's worth kajiggering the Pro-Ride chassis into several entry-level models, it could be worth taking it further. I'd think a 400lb Indy short-track would sell a lot better and not take an all-out effort, and a 370lb EVO RMK would be easy to build off that chassis.
A 350lb sled is easily in the realm of possibility, but would likely cost $8k or more (and might lose money if they couldn't sell as many as a $6k sled). So I understand that's not going to happen. What is much more feasible is designing a smaller/lighter chassis to underpin all the entry-level lines, maybe call it the Indy chassis. There's no reason the basic Indy should weigh nearly 450lb, any more than a sled designed for kids should be 420. I can't say the numbers are there, but there is still a market. If it's worth kajiggering the Pro-Ride chassis into several entry-level models, it could be worth taking it further. I'd think a 400lb Indy short-track would sell a lot better and not take an all-out effort, and a 370lb EVO RMK would be easy to build off that chassis.
Ha that is my build color as well but black tunnel/rails. I also would choice the 800 still.
J
Jaynelson
Well-known member
It's not that I disagree that there couldn't be a better sled....I don't.
I guess the question is....are you trying to build a sled for a kid to ride off-trail and try to mimic Dad? Or something for someone totally fresh that can at least get up a mountain trail in some fresh snow to introduce kids to riding and getting up in the mountains? Those are 2 entirely different machines and 2 entirely different price points IMO. Maybe there is room for both.
J
Jaynelson
Well-known member
Am I correct in saying that AC base pricing only gets you a 1 year warranty (believe so)? If so, then the 4 year warranty on the Pol is a substantial part of the price difference alone. Just a thought
A buddy of mine said that there is roughly $2K extra on top of the discounted price for setup and other fees for the 2020 AC. Anyone else here that?
The price point sled could be just what you describe to get newbies on the snow. But if there is an option to get a sled that will allow for a new rider to ride off trail in 3 feet of fresh and folks can afford the premium for it why not offer it. I wont be taking my kids hill climbing but giving them every advantage to get off the trail and succeed without the huge weight penalty holding them back is what I am asking for. Last year my son was ridding a 1990 Indy Starlite 250cc off trail. Watching him fleece that thing to get it where he wanted to go mimicking who ever he was riding behind put the biggest smile on my face that you could not wipe off. Watching him repeatedly trying to make it up a small hill and him getting frustrated when he got stuck made me want to get him something better suited to his size and weight with the same power to weight ratio that I am able to purchase for myself. I have spoke to several dealers that tell me they have customers that put 10 year old's on 600s and once they know how to ride they are fine. I just don't think giving a young rider 120 hp is wise or even a safe way for them to learn. And even if they get some seat time on the price point first the step up to a liquid 600 is asking for something bad to happen to a young rider like my son who rides with reckless abandon and no fear. I agree these are two different price points and sleds and do think there is room for both sleds. If they cant offer a snow check then at least offer an upgrade kit and they would most likely sell enough to make it worth offering it. That would also fill the gap to the higher HP liquid sleds.
Sounds like my first sled, a '00 500 RMK. It was lighter than the bigger sleds and the liquid cooled 500 was bullet proof and had enough power to get around.
I always wince a little when I see a kid riding a full-up RMK or Summit. Some kids can do a pretty good job, but ultimately it's either a waste of the machine or a big accident waiting to happen. One thing I'll say for the EVO RMK, it's a decent compromise – giving a kid more capability, but nothing excessive. It's just that dropping 50lb would probably be like having a 155 by comparison, and there'd be a better chance of a kid digging it out themselves if they had to.
Those old Indy Lites are pretty cool, I'd like to tinker with one. I do have all the parts I need to build an Indy Trail up with an EDGE chaincase and 136. Not really for a kid's sled, just want to see if I can build a fun lightweight sled. TRS on here has built up a couple iQ sleds around a similar concept: https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=362586&highlight=RMK+Lite. Just scroll down about halfway. Not sure what they weigh – I'm guessing significantly more than the EVO RMK – but the small engine, big track setup seems to work pretty well for his (very lucky) grandkids.
The market is always the tricky part. I still think the market for a kid's sled is too small to invest heavily in, but if you can combine that with an entry-level line you've got a much bigger audience. Just applying the techniques that make the RMK so light, but around a smaller engine and track, would go a long way without having to drive up costs because of R&D or exotic materials (although a carbon fiber sled would be really cool). A new motor wouldn't hurt either...
Those old Indy Lites are pretty cool, I'd like to tinker with one. I do have all the parts I need to build an Indy Trail up with an EDGE chaincase and 136. Not really for a kid's sled, just want to see if I can build a fun lightweight sled. TRS on here has built up a couple iQ sleds around a similar concept: https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=362586&highlight=RMK+Lite. Just scroll down about halfway. Not sure what they weigh – I'm guessing significantly more than the EVO RMK – but the small engine, big track setup seems to work pretty well for his (very lucky) grandkids.
The market is always the tricky part. I still think the market for a kid's sled is too small to invest heavily in, but if you can combine that with an entry-level line you've got a much bigger audience. Just applying the techniques that make the RMK so light, but around a smaller engine and track, would go a long way without having to drive up costs because of R&D or exotic materials (although a carbon fiber sled would be really cool). A new motor wouldn't hurt either...
Entry level is what's missing I say. To big with to much power for kids.
Get it cheap and those who want can mod to their content. Just start with a 15" track so you get to use tracks from the 80's and up!
Here you have a good income before you buy a Z 120 over Indy Lite/star etc.
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Get it cheap and those who want can mod to their content. Just start with a 15" track so you get to use tracks from the 80's and up!
Here you have a good income before you buy a Z 120 over Indy Lite/star etc.
Sent fra min S60 via Tapatalk
