2016 Yamaha YZ450FX Super Hero Builds - CMX - Yeti - TS
- Thread starter tillbuilt
- Start date
waiting for test in
so Toby, give us the low down on which kit is best for not filling your collar with corn snow and covering the back of your seat with super cooled shaved ice causing cold butt.
all have good tracks, good drive systems, mongo suspension, top notch price tags, woopazz graphics, efi ............. but which kit minimizes cold butt. Cold hard facts...all good.
so Toby, give us the low down on which kit is best for not filling your collar with corn snow and covering the back of your seat with super cooled shaved ice causing cold butt.
all have good tracks, good drive systems, mongo suspension, top notch price tags, woopazz graphics, efi ............. but which kit minimizes cold butt. Cold hard facts...all good.
Perfect timing in the thread. Lets talk about weight. All weights were done with full tank of fuel and the strap placement was done in the same fashion to the foot peg in every picture. You can truly tell balance points this way.
The stock bike is 265lbs.
The TS is 334lbs. and hangs with an upward angle.
The CMX BK is 329lbs. with the Raptor Dual ski front end. it is 321lbs. with the Yeti front end.
And the BIG winner on the scale is the Yeti!!! coming in at 302lbs. with a balance point directly at the foot pegs.
My CR500 is a full 30 lbs. lighter than my EXC KTM when measured with the wheels on. Couple that with a Yeti kit vs. TS and there is another 30+ lb. weight reduction. I really noticed the 30 lb. weight loss when I switched bikes, add to that another 32 lbs. and that would be 60+ lbs. lighter than my very first snow bike setup. On a machine that weighs under 350 in the first place, that's a significant weight reduction which can only improve the riding experience, easier handling, less fatique and much better power to weight ratio as in like 20% better. I could do an aluminum frame conversion and knock a few more lbs. off. TS is quickly becoming the Yamaha sleds of snow biking IMO, weight is the new frontier just like sleds.
M5
M5
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With the enclosed tunnel on the Yeti it throws less snow than the rest. I find less snow on the seat than with any of the others.
Let's hear some ride reviews........ I'm particularly interested in how the CMX kit stacks up,,,,,,,, .... I'm leaning that way, since the YETI is over budget,,,,,,,, and I don't want any strange issues with my kit,,,,,.... and I know CMX builds some tight $hit.......... Plus, I haven't heard much about them, good or bad............
No news is usually good news when it comes to the internet!
Yep
That's for sure,,,,,, as soon as something ruins someone's day, they can't wait to drag that $hit all over the Internet....... Unbiased reviews by unsponsered riders seem like the best bet, if there is such a thing..........??
It does, however, definitely hilight "common" issues, and hopefully opens the manufacturer's eyes to them so they can be remedied. ....
Seems like when most riders have a good day, it was just another good day, no news there............
No news then, IS good news....
That's for sure,,,,,, as soon as something ruins someone's day, they can't wait to drag that $hit all over the Internet....... Unbiased reviews by unsponsered riders seem like the best bet, if there is such a thing..........??
It does, however, definitely hilight "common" issues, and hopefully opens the manufacturer's eyes to them so they can be remedied. ....
Seems like when most riders have a good day, it was just another good day, no news there............
No news then, IS good news....
I know you guy's and girl's have been waiting for a long time for this, but it has been worth it!!!!!
I did not want to give you a one day ride review, and I am glad I didn't. As the snow changed over the season here in Colorado and we got to ride everything from champagne powder to hard - setup spring snow, and even some snow that had been rained on. The kits sure changed their stripes and we started to find the strengths and weaknesses of each one. The bikes feel very similar in soft snow over 6" deep. It is in the firm spring snow that they truly change.
We did set up all units to have a 60mph. top speed. This kind of final drive ratio is perfect for the transmission gearing of the YZ450FX.
I will be using some comparisons that I hope most of us can relate to.
The TS - The Joker - is our baseline because we all know how it rides. When you head out into the woods it is a useful tool that gets you around, and is easy to ride in all conditions. It is fun, and we have all enjoyed it. If I were to relate it to anything; it would be like a $ 40,000.00 Jeep Rubicon 4X4 in Moab, Ut. It is easy going, stable, and does the job well.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The CMX BK - Hulk - is the next in line with the most dirt bike like feel of all units tested.
This unit with the Raptor front end was great in the parking lot, and ok on the trails. In the deep champagne powder the front end would float on top of the snow and the rear would trench in, like I was use to with the TS but worse. When you would dive into a tree well the front end would push through the bottom and not turn out. The Raptor front end was the drawback to this unit, it had so much flotation that it made the angle of attack keep the track at 45deg. angle and you just tractor around. As the snow set up it was a different story. The rear would not trench so hard and would come up on top of the snow like it should. The other thing with this front end on the CMX, was when following another bike in there track you could not vary. I found that if I hit a drift jump and landed slightly uphill of the track I was following, the uphill ski would grab and immediately turn the bike hard downhill and make me crash.
As you will see in the following rides to come, I swapped front ends around to see if the Raptor front end preformed the same way on the other bikes and kits. It did.
When I ran the Yeti front end on the CMX BK it was an Ah Ha moment. The single ski traveled deep enough in the snow to enable the rear end to just pop up and be level accelerating over the top of the fresh powder and not trench in, and it would even picking up the front end when you got on the throttle enabling it to rail out of the tree well.
We have found that the Yeti front end not only lightens up the CMX BK package considerably, it also gives us the improved ride and handling we are looking for. Equipped this way we have determined the CMX BK is the most playful and dirt bike like kit on the market. In the deep snow you can sit down ride and feel the advantages of the CMX designed suspension coming up on top and working hard. It is on the hard set up spring snow where you will really get the dirt bike feel. Climbing up a steep hill in super hard set up snow the front end will lift and you will loop out: just like on a dirt bike if you are sitting down. If you are standing and get your weight transferred up over the bars, it might lift the front end slightly, but will stay true and launch out the top. If you want to be a sit down rider and not be on your game this is not the kit for you, but if you want to be standing up and leaning over the bars on a hard set up hill climb, just like you have to ride your dirt bike. This is definitely the kit for you.
The deep snow performance of this unit is very good and will continue to claw its way up the mountain without trenching in hard. I found I could turn out in time to save it; almost every time. The track is very soft duromater, so it does not transfer the power very well to the hard pack trail that has just been groomed. It is fun drifting the corners with the track lit up and bouncing off the rev limiter, but it does this because it is not biting the hard pack. This soft track will also fold in heavy set up snow and want to trench in. This track is the same one Yeti uses. It is the MaxTrax 2.5. The new MaxTrax II 2.5 should improve this greatly for 2017. This track has rounded side paddles and transitions from flat to corner easily and feels very smooth then using the Yeti single ski front end.
The amount of power that the CMX belt drive transfers to the snow is incredible. This stock bike with the CMX BK had almost the same kind of power it was putting to the snow and my turbocharged bike with a TS on it!!!!!! What a difference the decrease in rolling resistance makes on the power you feel on the snow.
When I first got the CMX BK I was curious about it not having a third shock / suspension component to allowing the entire tunnel to move. Being a TS guy for so many years, and knowing what TSS did for the suspension advancement of the TS kit. I called Mark at CMX. I said to Mark "I think I can make a TS TSS strut work with your kit and bike adaptor, but I will not mess with it now and ride it the way you sent it." You could almost hear him smile as he responded "I think that would be a good idea." I am glad that I did not waste any more time on that idea, because after the first ride I was calling Mark and stating; "What in the world did you design here?????? This is the best and most active suspension I have ever ridden!!!!! This blows away TSS." You could definitely hear him smiling now when he responded " It is a CMX suspension design. It works pretty good? "
Having the ability to twist a grip and wheelie over a drift is the kind of fun I have always wanted in a snow bike. This CMX BK feels like a $750,000.00 Trophy Truck. Huge power transfer, the ability to lift the front ski at will using the throttle, and being 13lbs. lighter than the TS when equipped with the Yeti front end makes it a real winner if you are looking for a more bike like feel. You have to be on your game when riding this unit, but it pays dividends in FUN!!!!!
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The Yeti - Ironman is up next:
The Yeti I am testing is a hard tail unit with no RRS third link of suspension. The RRS was not available yet but was shipped out this week and I will follow up on the improvements it makes when it gets here and I get some ride time on it. Jamie and Kevin at Yeti are very particular about the product they put out to the public, and would rather be late to the party than have a product out there that does not work as they intend it to.
My first ride on the Yeti was a blower powder day!!!!!! 30" of fresh Colorado, champagne goodness that the snow god's delivered to us to ride!!!!
My first impression of the unit on this DEEP powder day was simple. It rides like a hard tail TS. Not to impressive for all of the hype and super aero space engineering that went into it.
Fast forward a week of 40deg. days and cold nights our champagne powder went to hard pack spring snow. The three of us drew straws, I did not get the short straw which was having to ride the Joker, but I did not get the bike i wanted at the time. I was on the Yeti / IronMan bike this day. We started ripping through the tight trees like we always do and I truly felt like it was going to be an epic high speed day. I was on my game!!!! I felt FAST. I felt in CONTROL. I felt like IRONMAN!!! Ok, that was a corny lead in, but it is true!!!! At our first buddy check stop my crew was not on my tail like they usually are. I waited for a few and here they come. I asked if they had a problem and they shook their head no. So I blasted off again. Through the trees popping drifts at speed, and collecting branches off the trees 10' in the air. Man I felt good!!!! At the next check I waited again. When my crew got there I told the rider that was on the Joker, he should try the Yeti since he had never ridden one. We swapped bikes and off I went. I was on the Joker and all of my mojo went away. It was not me that was on my game, it was the bike!!!!!!
This package is Sweet!!!! Popping out of the tree wells, and riding a tail wheelie out of the top is so much fun on the Yeti bike. It does not lift the ski with throttle application, but it climbs like a mountain goat and does not trench in. When climbing the steeps you do not have to give it extra attention to keep the front end down. You just hammer the throttle and GO!!! When a TS climbs a wind drift on a steep hill it punches through the lip, and trenches over the top. The Yeti springs into action on the lip and shoots out the top in the air like a rocket launching into space. The landing is so smooth and controlled. I have landed on the rev limiter many times trying to break a belt with no luck. This thing is tough. I even got myself hung in a tree well and got run over by my buddy, right across the tunnel and had merely a scratch on the carbon fiber.
On the days I want to be fast and make my buddies look silly I make sure I get to ride the IronMan. It is a bike that handles on rails and is so much lighter and well balanced. When you have a bike that the front to rear balance point is at the foot peg's it gives you the ability to throw it around at will with no wasted effort. Plus the fact it is 32lbs. lighter than a TS, you have a package that is a true E-ticket ride. The belt drive has very low rolling resistance and easily transfers power to the snow like the CMX. I have never had a TS continue in a forward motion on a pond when I pulled the clutch to stop. The Yeti and CMX will continue to roll on a few feet after the clutch is pulled. This truly demonstrates the decrease of rolling resistance in the track system.
For the last comparison the Yeti is like driving a $1,000,000.00 Rally Car. It handles like it is on rails. Everywhere you point, it is going. Riding this bike is intuitive and responsive. You never have to over think it. When you ask it to go here or there it responds, it is truly an extension of your thoughts. I am faster and in more control on this bike than any other.
When comparing the cost of a TS SX w/ TSS at $7495.00, a CMX BK at $6995.00, and Yeti MX at $8500.00 you can truly justify the added expense. The CMX BK gives you way more bang for your buck than the TS. Then for those of us that want the ultimate, and price is no object, the Yeti MX delivers for 2017, at a cost of $1005.00 more. You do have to compare the top of the line TS to these other kits to be fair. Shocks are a huge part of pricing in a system and if you price compare a TS RAW to a Yeti. You are comparing a GEO Metro to a Cadillac. Yes, they both have four wheels and an engine but that is about the only similarities.
I hope you are enjoying this thread, and the time and effort we have put into it. I would ask that if you got something out of this and have money to spend on accessories, or a system purchase. Please spend it with us. We would like to earn your business.
Thank you!!!!
.
I did not want to give you a one day ride review, and I am glad I didn't. As the snow changed over the season here in Colorado and we got to ride everything from champagne powder to hard - setup spring snow, and even some snow that had been rained on. The kits sure changed their stripes and we started to find the strengths and weaknesses of each one. The bikes feel very similar in soft snow over 6" deep. It is in the firm spring snow that they truly change.
We did set up all units to have a 60mph. top speed. This kind of final drive ratio is perfect for the transmission gearing of the YZ450FX.
I will be using some comparisons that I hope most of us can relate to.
The TS - The Joker - is our baseline because we all know how it rides. When you head out into the woods it is a useful tool that gets you around, and is easy to ride in all conditions. It is fun, and we have all enjoyed it. If I were to relate it to anything; it would be like a $ 40,000.00 Jeep Rubicon 4X4 in Moab, Ut. It is easy going, stable, and does the job well.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The CMX BK - Hulk - is the next in line with the most dirt bike like feel of all units tested.
This unit with the Raptor front end was great in the parking lot, and ok on the trails. In the deep champagne powder the front end would float on top of the snow and the rear would trench in, like I was use to with the TS but worse. When you would dive into a tree well the front end would push through the bottom and not turn out. The Raptor front end was the drawback to this unit, it had so much flotation that it made the angle of attack keep the track at 45deg. angle and you just tractor around. As the snow set up it was a different story. The rear would not trench so hard and would come up on top of the snow like it should. The other thing with this front end on the CMX, was when following another bike in there track you could not vary. I found that if I hit a drift jump and landed slightly uphill of the track I was following, the uphill ski would grab and immediately turn the bike hard downhill and make me crash.
As you will see in the following rides to come, I swapped front ends around to see if the Raptor front end preformed the same way on the other bikes and kits. It did.
When I ran the Yeti front end on the CMX BK it was an Ah Ha moment. The single ski traveled deep enough in the snow to enable the rear end to just pop up and be level accelerating over the top of the fresh powder and not trench in, and it would even picking up the front end when you got on the throttle enabling it to rail out of the tree well.
We have found that the Yeti front end not only lightens up the CMX BK package considerably, it also gives us the improved ride and handling we are looking for. Equipped this way we have determined the CMX BK is the most playful and dirt bike like kit on the market. In the deep snow you can sit down ride and feel the advantages of the CMX designed suspension coming up on top and working hard. It is on the hard set up spring snow where you will really get the dirt bike feel. Climbing up a steep hill in super hard set up snow the front end will lift and you will loop out: just like on a dirt bike if you are sitting down. If you are standing and get your weight transferred up over the bars, it might lift the front end slightly, but will stay true and launch out the top. If you want to be a sit down rider and not be on your game this is not the kit for you, but if you want to be standing up and leaning over the bars on a hard set up hill climb, just like you have to ride your dirt bike. This is definitely the kit for you.
The deep snow performance of this unit is very good and will continue to claw its way up the mountain without trenching in hard. I found I could turn out in time to save it; almost every time. The track is very soft duromater, so it does not transfer the power very well to the hard pack trail that has just been groomed. It is fun drifting the corners with the track lit up and bouncing off the rev limiter, but it does this because it is not biting the hard pack. This soft track will also fold in heavy set up snow and want to trench in. This track is the same one Yeti uses. It is the MaxTrax 2.5. The new MaxTrax II 2.5 should improve this greatly for 2017. This track has rounded side paddles and transitions from flat to corner easily and feels very smooth then using the Yeti single ski front end.
The amount of power that the CMX belt drive transfers to the snow is incredible. This stock bike with the CMX BK had almost the same kind of power it was putting to the snow and my turbocharged bike with a TS on it!!!!!! What a difference the decrease in rolling resistance makes on the power you feel on the snow.
When I first got the CMX BK I was curious about it not having a third shock / suspension component to allowing the entire tunnel to move. Being a TS guy for so many years, and knowing what TSS did for the suspension advancement of the TS kit. I called Mark at CMX. I said to Mark "I think I can make a TS TSS strut work with your kit and bike adaptor, but I will not mess with it now and ride it the way you sent it." You could almost hear him smile as he responded "I think that would be a good idea." I am glad that I did not waste any more time on that idea, because after the first ride I was calling Mark and stating; "What in the world did you design here?????? This is the best and most active suspension I have ever ridden!!!!! This blows away TSS." You could definitely hear him smiling now when he responded " It is a CMX suspension design. It works pretty good? "
Having the ability to twist a grip and wheelie over a drift is the kind of fun I have always wanted in a snow bike. This CMX BK feels like a $750,000.00 Trophy Truck. Huge power transfer, the ability to lift the front ski at will using the throttle, and being 13lbs. lighter than the TS when equipped with the Yeti front end makes it a real winner if you are looking for a more bike like feel. You have to be on your game when riding this unit, but it pays dividends in FUN!!!!!
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The Yeti - Ironman is up next:
The Yeti I am testing is a hard tail unit with no RRS third link of suspension. The RRS was not available yet but was shipped out this week and I will follow up on the improvements it makes when it gets here and I get some ride time on it. Jamie and Kevin at Yeti are very particular about the product they put out to the public, and would rather be late to the party than have a product out there that does not work as they intend it to.
My first ride on the Yeti was a blower powder day!!!!!! 30" of fresh Colorado, champagne goodness that the snow god's delivered to us to ride!!!!
My first impression of the unit on this DEEP powder day was simple. It rides like a hard tail TS. Not to impressive for all of the hype and super aero space engineering that went into it.
Fast forward a week of 40deg. days and cold nights our champagne powder went to hard pack spring snow. The three of us drew straws, I did not get the short straw which was having to ride the Joker, but I did not get the bike i wanted at the time. I was on the Yeti / IronMan bike this day. We started ripping through the tight trees like we always do and I truly felt like it was going to be an epic high speed day. I was on my game!!!! I felt FAST. I felt in CONTROL. I felt like IRONMAN!!! Ok, that was a corny lead in, but it is true!!!! At our first buddy check stop my crew was not on my tail like they usually are. I waited for a few and here they come. I asked if they had a problem and they shook their head no. So I blasted off again. Through the trees popping drifts at speed, and collecting branches off the trees 10' in the air. Man I felt good!!!! At the next check I waited again. When my crew got there I told the rider that was on the Joker, he should try the Yeti since he had never ridden one. We swapped bikes and off I went. I was on the Joker and all of my mojo went away. It was not me that was on my game, it was the bike!!!!!!
This package is Sweet!!!! Popping out of the tree wells, and riding a tail wheelie out of the top is so much fun on the Yeti bike. It does not lift the ski with throttle application, but it climbs like a mountain goat and does not trench in. When climbing the steeps you do not have to give it extra attention to keep the front end down. You just hammer the throttle and GO!!! When a TS climbs a wind drift on a steep hill it punches through the lip, and trenches over the top. The Yeti springs into action on the lip and shoots out the top in the air like a rocket launching into space. The landing is so smooth and controlled. I have landed on the rev limiter many times trying to break a belt with no luck. This thing is tough. I even got myself hung in a tree well and got run over by my buddy, right across the tunnel and had merely a scratch on the carbon fiber.
On the days I want to be fast and make my buddies look silly I make sure I get to ride the IronMan. It is a bike that handles on rails and is so much lighter and well balanced. When you have a bike that the front to rear balance point is at the foot peg's it gives you the ability to throw it around at will with no wasted effort. Plus the fact it is 32lbs. lighter than a TS, you have a package that is a true E-ticket ride. The belt drive has very low rolling resistance and easily transfers power to the snow like the CMX. I have never had a TS continue in a forward motion on a pond when I pulled the clutch to stop. The Yeti and CMX will continue to roll on a few feet after the clutch is pulled. This truly demonstrates the decrease of rolling resistance in the track system.
For the last comparison the Yeti is like driving a $1,000,000.00 Rally Car. It handles like it is on rails. Everywhere you point, it is going. Riding this bike is intuitive and responsive. You never have to over think it. When you ask it to go here or there it responds, it is truly an extension of your thoughts. I am faster and in more control on this bike than any other.
When comparing the cost of a TS SX w/ TSS at $7495.00, a CMX BK at $6995.00, and Yeti MX at $8500.00 you can truly justify the added expense. The CMX BK gives you way more bang for your buck than the TS. Then for those of us that want the ultimate, and price is no object, the Yeti MX delivers for 2017, at a cost of $1005.00 more. You do have to compare the top of the line TS to these other kits to be fair. Shocks are a huge part of pricing in a system and if you price compare a TS RAW to a Yeti. You are comparing a GEO Metro to a Cadillac. Yes, they both have four wheels and an engine but that is about the only similarities.
I hope you are enjoying this thread, and the time and effort we have put into it. I would ask that if you got something out of this and have money to spend on accessories, or a system purchase. Please spend it with us. We would like to earn your business.
Thank you!!!!
.
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Would be cool to see how the two other big kits compare. Just slap down another 30 grand and get two more bikes set up!
Are those seats a custom thing done just for you or can anyone get one?
Are those seats a custom thing done just for you or can anyone get one?
Nicely Done! Thank you for the review!
C
capulin overdrive
Well-known member
Thanks for the review Toby!
Nicely done,,,,,,,, nicely done indeed....
Pretty much just solidified my decision. ......
Thanks for all the time and effort......
Oh yeah,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Are you willing to sell the Hulk???
Pretty much just solidified my decision. ......
Thanks for all the time and effort......
Oh yeah,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Are you willing to sell the Hulk???
Interesting results...
I haven't ridden the CMX, so I can't comment there and my opinion isn't worth much since I sell timbersled.
But
We recently had a demo day where we had 16 and 17 Timbersled units as well as a 16 Yeti and a 16 mototrax. The comments that I heard from every single person there put the Yeti slightly behind the 16 Timbersled with the 17 Timbersled preferred by every person that was there.
I haven't ridden the CMX, so I can't comment there and my opinion isn't worth much since I sell timbersled.
But
We recently had a demo day where we had 16 and 17 Timbersled units as well as a 16 Yeti and a 16 mototrax. The comments that I heard from every single person there put the Yeti slightly behind the 16 Timbersled with the 17 Timbersled preferred by every person that was there.
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Thanks for the review
cant wait to hear on the RRS update
currently own a yeti mx kit and contemplating dishing out for the 3rd shock
cant wait to hear on the RRS update
currently own a yeti mx kit and contemplating dishing out for the 3rd shock
A
adamd1979
Active member
Hmm not sure how unbiased a review this is seeing as from the beginning one of the kits was named after a very non super heroy villan. Nice to hear your experience on the other kits, but I hope that people don't get the impression that they are getting the short end of the straw if they go with a timbersled
Do you know how hard it is to hide ten grand from my wife???!!!???
I'm gonna have to tell her. And i'm gonna havta tell her it's your fault Toby. Sorry. Can't be helped.
I'm gonna have to tell her. And i'm gonna havta tell her it's your fault Toby. Sorry. Can't be helped.
