I will get a picture for you soon (what kind of bike would you like to see?). There is clearance for the kickstarter on Honda, Yamaha, KTM & Husky. We did consider this aspect when we designed the kit.
Thanks,
2016 Yamaha YZ450FX Super Hero Builds - CMX - Yeti - TS
- Thread starter tillbuilt
- Start date
I will get a picture for you soon (what kind of bike would you like to see?). There is clearance for the kickstarter on Honda, Yamaha, KTM & Husky. We did consider this aspect when we designed the kit.
Thanks,
N
NVRENUF
Active member
Rush,
Quick tip for you and the YETI ski owners.
The YETI ski handles different on the YETI than it does on the other kits out there. To start the centre skagg is 1” deeper than a Simmons ski. If you took your Simmons ski off your TS kit and bolted on a YETI ski with no strut rod or rear suspension adjustment, you would have a really heavy ski feeling, and have too much pressure on your ski just by bolting it on.
The rear weight of the “Kit” vs how the suspension works etc all have an effect on ski pressure and handling.
You would have to shorten your TS strut the day you put your YETI ski on to get back to ground zero.
The older TS units had an adjustable strut rod, and it was easy to shorten and adjust, the newer TS kits do not have any adjustment as the bushings are fixed.
The YETI ski will be grabby in certain snow conditions if you just “bolt” it on. TS designed their kits to use their ski of course. If you spend the time to adjust your set up for the YETI ski it handles much better in all conditions.
All YETI customers know, or have learned to quickly adjust their strut rod if their ski feels grabby or darty at all when riding. As we all know the snow changes from one day to the next. We have learned that a quick adjustment can eliminate the grabby condition. I can just look at a bike sitting there an tell the strut is out of adjustment, and a quick ride will confirm that.
It is difficult to convey all the info one has learned riding all the kits and how to set each one up for each condition.
That being said, the person who has been used to riding the Simmons ski will not have the confidence to push the YETI ski without pushing themselves mentally past the point where they used to slide out on the trail etc. The YETI ski will hold on the trail almost to the point of the bars dragging on the icy trail, or the foot pegs dragging, which is impossible on the Simmons ski.
The Simmons ski vs. the YETI ski takes a lot of time to get used to the feeling, not just that it does different things, but that they are not designed to feel the same, and they don’t. The YETI ski feels much more like riding a street bike, you counter steer it into the corners much like you do when ice racing a MX bike with a studded tire.
All that being said, each ski has it’s pro’s and cons, and each does work differently on each snow condition.
One ski will not be the best in all snow conditions.
On the trail, hard pack, gravel, ice, frozen ruts, slush, all powder the YETI ski dominates. The Simmons ski works better on the frozen ice crust snow than the YETI ski and is good overall.
In the end it is hard not be be biased, unless you ride each kit or ski for many hours, then you can actually make a logical comment. I have ridden both a YETI for 3 winters and TS for over 4 winters now, and have easily over 100 hours on both kits in many configurations, SX 120&137, LT, ST, 120, 129, 137 and 146 and RRS on 120,129, 137, and in many snow conditions.
But “ You know, what you don’t know” and until you try something new/different, a person has nothing to compare it too and should hold off from comments until they “know”.
NVRENUF
Quick tip for you and the YETI ski owners.
The YETI ski handles different on the YETI than it does on the other kits out there. To start the centre skagg is 1” deeper than a Simmons ski. If you took your Simmons ski off your TS kit and bolted on a YETI ski with no strut rod or rear suspension adjustment, you would have a really heavy ski feeling, and have too much pressure on your ski just by bolting it on.
The rear weight of the “Kit” vs how the suspension works etc all have an effect on ski pressure and handling.
You would have to shorten your TS strut the day you put your YETI ski on to get back to ground zero.
The older TS units had an adjustable strut rod, and it was easy to shorten and adjust, the newer TS kits do not have any adjustment as the bushings are fixed.
The YETI ski will be grabby in certain snow conditions if you just “bolt” it on. TS designed their kits to use their ski of course. If you spend the time to adjust your set up for the YETI ski it handles much better in all conditions.
All YETI customers know, or have learned to quickly adjust their strut rod if their ski feels grabby or darty at all when riding. As we all know the snow changes from one day to the next. We have learned that a quick adjustment can eliminate the grabby condition. I can just look at a bike sitting there an tell the strut is out of adjustment, and a quick ride will confirm that.
It is difficult to convey all the info one has learned riding all the kits and how to set each one up for each condition.
That being said, the person who has been used to riding the Simmons ski will not have the confidence to push the YETI ski without pushing themselves mentally past the point where they used to slide out on the trail etc. The YETI ski will hold on the trail almost to the point of the bars dragging on the icy trail, or the foot pegs dragging, which is impossible on the Simmons ski.
The Simmons ski vs. the YETI ski takes a lot of time to get used to the feeling, not just that it does different things, but that they are not designed to feel the same, and they don’t. The YETI ski feels much more like riding a street bike, you counter steer it into the corners much like you do when ice racing a MX bike with a studded tire.
All that being said, each ski has it’s pro’s and cons, and each does work differently on each snow condition.
One ski will not be the best in all snow conditions.
On the trail, hard pack, gravel, ice, frozen ruts, slush, all powder the YETI ski dominates. The Simmons ski works better on the frozen ice crust snow than the YETI ski and is good overall.
In the end it is hard not be be biased, unless you ride each kit or ski for many hours, then you can actually make a logical comment. I have ridden both a YETI for 3 winters and TS for over 4 winters now, and have easily over 100 hours on both kits in many configurations, SX 120&137, LT, ST, 120, 129, 137 and 146 and RRS on 120,129, 137, and in many snow conditions.
But “ You know, what you don’t know” and until you try something new/different, a person has nothing to compare it too and should hold off from comments until they “know”.
NVRENUF
On to the kits:
The TS is the baseline that we have all been ridding and will be the point this entire review will be compared to. We have installed and ridden TS units for years now and are happy with the product. We are trying to figure out if there is a better unit out there.
The 2016 CMX BK 120, $6295, also arrived in a crate with no instructions for the rear skid and a very well written installation manual for the Raptor front end. The phone support that CMX offers is top notch and you will need it to complete the install.
The TS comes in the crate as a 2016 ST 120 w/ TSS. $6300. The install manual is some color pages stapled together that does a good job of helping you install the kit. I assume that TS tech support is good if you have any questions. We did not need this support, because of the amount of units that we have installed at this point.
The 2016 Yeti SMX 120 purchased with RSS, $8500, came perfectly packaged in a very heavy weight shipping quality card board box that is easy to transport. All parts are inventoried on the packing slip and the instruction manual is the best I have ever seen!!! The Install was easy, and the Youtube channel they provide you with walks you right through the install. I did not need to call for any technical support because it was all in the manual. This manual even comes with a full parts break dowin with pictures and part #'s. What a handy reference guide.
Here is the manual for you to check out:
http://yetisnowmx.ca/assembly-manual/?rq=manual
I understand that Argyll has some units remaining at $6999 U.S.
Killer deal for a Yeti!
We spent 3 months and $50K to bring you all this thread. We want to thank all of you who have been engaged and appreciate all that we have done.
For the few that feel that this has been a bias point of view you are correct. I do not sell TS any more and i will not waste my time and effort promoting their product. They are a big company and can do their own advertising. I own a very small snow bike dealership that I have put my heart and soul into getting people on snow bikes for the last four years. When I discontinued my relationship with TS I went on a quest to find out if there is other product that I could sell that was better than TS, so i purchased a CMX BK and a Yeti. If they were not up to par, or better than the TS product I would not be selling them, and only have the accessory side of things to sell. I will not put the name I have worked so hard to build in this industry on a substandard product. I fortunately found two products that I can bring to my customers. I feel they are better options than the TS product, and I am thrilled about it!!!!!! I did not sign up as a dealer with either company until I spent many hours on each. For the record I own a business that sells snow bike product and I am a salesman, but don't tell anyone. It's a secret!!!!!
I never claimed an unbiased review. Everyone has bias. I did give an honest comparison as to how the new offerings stacked up to the TS and did state the deficiencies that they may have such as the track:
" The deep snow performance of this unit is very good and will continue to claw its way up the mountain without trenching in hard. I found I could turn out in time to save it; almost every time. The track is very soft duromater, so it does not transfer the power very well to the hard pack trail that has just been groomed. It is fun drifting the corners with the track lit up and bouncing off the rev limiter, but it does this because it is not biting the hard pack. This soft track will also fold in heavy set up snow and want to trench in. This track is the same one Yeti uses. It is the MaxTrax 2.5. The new MaxTrax II 2.5 should improve this greatly for 2017. This track has rounded side paddles and transitions from flat to corner easily and feels very smooth then using the Yeti single ski front end. "
This was not intended as a review for a first time buyer. Most first time snow bike buyers are not going to spend $8500.00 on a system. They are going to get their feet wet in the used market for $4000.00 or less. The snow bikers that are interested in this kind of performance have been on snow bikes for at least one season or more. That is who my potential customers are, and that is who this review was written for.
Now that we have all that cleared up I was going to give the opportunity to a few riders to come out and spend a day with me on the three bikes and give your opinions on how they preformed. I welcome unbiased opinions. They speak louder than a business owners opinions. I would like for anyone who can get themselves to Colorado and at no charge come out and beat down my three bikes. All you have to do is shoot a small video clip afterwards and write a review on SnoWest. Please have at least one or more seasons owning a snow bike, and be performance minded. I will not accept anyone who has spoken loudly about a manufactures product. People like: summitboy, teal_210, Rush44, n16ht5, need not apply, your opinions will mean as much as mine in the eyes of the critical online community. Sorry to single you out, I would like to ride with you all, but I need nonbias reviews. Post up your qualifications on this thread in a reply and I will select the lucky three from them in a week.
I did offer this to two local snow bikers this weekend and they were thrilled to give them a whirl!!!!! Both of them are way outside my regular riding crew and are about as unbiased as I could think of. I met Eric because he wanted to snow check a TS 137 SX in 2016 and had never owned a snow bike prior. I sold him his kit this year and some accessories, but have never got the opportunity to ride with him or spend any time together. Kim called me two seasons ago and needed some information on kits. He needed to know what track length he should be riding? So we had a conversation on where he should be, and he purchased a 2015 LT from one of my TS dealers. I have never even sold him a dime until yesterday when he purchased a Yeti ski on the spot, that I had in my trailer. I got to ride with him for the first time back in November and never got around to getting together again.
Eric Larson - Wants the high performance, high horsepower snow bike. very mechanically inclined and even has built his own motors. Moto style rider that has been on a TS for 1 season.
Kim Henderson - Very good snow bike rider. Has a true single track obsession, even riding the Baja Peninsula. Has been on a TS for 2 seasons.
Here is the video from after their ride on the superheroes:
...
For the few that feel that this has been a bias point of view you are correct. I do not sell TS any more and i will not waste my time and effort promoting their product. They are a big company and can do their own advertising. I own a very small snow bike dealership that I have put my heart and soul into getting people on snow bikes for the last four years. When I discontinued my relationship with TS I went on a quest to find out if there is other product that I could sell that was better than TS, so i purchased a CMX BK and a Yeti. If they were not up to par, or better than the TS product I would not be selling them, and only have the accessory side of things to sell. I will not put the name I have worked so hard to build in this industry on a substandard product. I fortunately found two products that I can bring to my customers. I feel they are better options than the TS product, and I am thrilled about it!!!!!! I did not sign up as a dealer with either company until I spent many hours on each. For the record I own a business that sells snow bike product and I am a salesman, but don't tell anyone. It's a secret!!!!!
I never claimed an unbiased review. Everyone has bias. I did give an honest comparison as to how the new offerings stacked up to the TS and did state the deficiencies that they may have such as the track:
" The deep snow performance of this unit is very good and will continue to claw its way up the mountain without trenching in hard. I found I could turn out in time to save it; almost every time. The track is very soft duromater, so it does not transfer the power very well to the hard pack trail that has just been groomed. It is fun drifting the corners with the track lit up and bouncing off the rev limiter, but it does this because it is not biting the hard pack. This soft track will also fold in heavy set up snow and want to trench in. This track is the same one Yeti uses. It is the MaxTrax 2.5. The new MaxTrax II 2.5 should improve this greatly for 2017. This track has rounded side paddles and transitions from flat to corner easily and feels very smooth then using the Yeti single ski front end. "
This was not intended as a review for a first time buyer. Most first time snow bike buyers are not going to spend $8500.00 on a system. They are going to get their feet wet in the used market for $4000.00 or less. The snow bikers that are interested in this kind of performance have been on snow bikes for at least one season or more. That is who my potential customers are, and that is who this review was written for.
Now that we have all that cleared up I was going to give the opportunity to a few riders to come out and spend a day with me on the three bikes and give your opinions on how they preformed. I welcome unbiased opinions. They speak louder than a business owners opinions. I would like for anyone who can get themselves to Colorado and at no charge come out and beat down my three bikes. All you have to do is shoot a small video clip afterwards and write a review on SnoWest. Please have at least one or more seasons owning a snow bike, and be performance minded. I will not accept anyone who has spoken loudly about a manufactures product. People like: summitboy, teal_210, Rush44, n16ht5, need not apply, your opinions will mean as much as mine in the eyes of the critical online community. Sorry to single you out, I would like to ride with you all, but I need nonbias reviews. Post up your qualifications on this thread in a reply and I will select the lucky three from them in a week.
I did offer this to two local snow bikers this weekend and they were thrilled to give them a whirl!!!!! Both of them are way outside my regular riding crew and are about as unbiased as I could think of. I met Eric because he wanted to snow check a TS 137 SX in 2016 and had never owned a snow bike prior. I sold him his kit this year and some accessories, but have never got the opportunity to ride with him or spend any time together. Kim called me two seasons ago and needed some information on kits. He needed to know what track length he should be riding? So we had a conversation on where he should be, and he purchased a 2015 LT from one of my TS dealers. I have never even sold him a dime until yesterday when he purchased a Yeti ski on the spot, that I had in my trailer. I got to ride with him for the first time back in November and never got around to getting together again.
Eric Larson - Wants the high performance, high horsepower snow bike. very mechanically inclined and even has built his own motors. Moto style rider that has been on a TS for 1 season.
Kim Henderson - Very good snow bike rider. Has a true single track obsession, even riding the Baja Peninsula. Has been on a TS for 2 seasons.
Here is the video from after their ride on the superheroes:
...
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D
DriftDiver8
Member
I had a chance to spend a couple of hours on a 2016 Timbersled ST with TSS on a 2015 YZ450 yesterday in about 4" to 6" of mashed potato snow and some packed trails. This bike had the standard Timbersled (Simmons Flexi-Ski) front end.
The very first thing I noticed was how INCREDIBLY HEAVY and hard-steering the front end was in the packed snow. However, the ski never slipped at all in the corners. Granted, I had very little time to get accustomed to the snow bike and it was a demo, so I probably didn't push it anywhere near it's limits but I was cranking some pretty hard corners on the flat ground as well as around trees. The more you can lean the the less you have to actually turn the handlebars, the better. I even had no issues negotiating the parking lot which had visible gravel / mud, slush, and hard-packed snow. The only place that you had NO steering was on bare asphalt and the bike went straight across it with no problems. (STRAIGHT is the key word, there.
)
The next thing that really stuck out to me is how the existing snowmobile tracks, ruts, holes, off-cambers, etc. have almost no effect on the bike, at all. I really expected it to get squirrely when you hit these obstacles at shallow angles, but you could completely ignore them as you ride.
It's a little hard to evaluate the track in easy conditions like these, but I never really felt the track spin unless I really tried to spin it (coming up out of a cone around a tree, etc.) and it never slid. It does kick up an incredible amount of roost, especially with no flap on the back.
I said that I would probably only be on it for a short while to get a feel for it and decide if I wanted to look into buying one, but ended up running it completely out of gas and had to refuel it to get it back. Definitely plan on carrying extra fuel!
The snow bike seems very slow from a seat-of-the pants perspective; but I believe it is very deceiving. Even though a sled will easily outrun it at top speed, you can hear how hard a sled is working to keep up and how much more a sled is impacted by the terrain. This is a double-edged sword: you don't have to work nearly as hard at dealing with the terrain, but you don't get as much of an adrenaline fix on the same type of ride and you don't have the screaming 2-stroke to add to the perception of speed. On the flip side, you can really cut between the trees with ease. To me, mixing snowmobiles and snow bikes on the same ride is a lot like trying to ride with a combined group of dirt bikes and ATV's in dirt. Each is fun, in their own right, but mixing them together on the same ride on the same trail doesn't generally work out well for one group or the other, or both.
My oldest daughter is now also hooked on snow bikes after ripping around on it (a fair amount of time at full throttle in top gear), and my wife even enjoyed it, although she is not an aggressive rider, at all.
Some other observations: I was surprised how stable the bike is when parked or riding very slow, I guess I expected it to tip over easier than it does, even given the track width. You can climb onto it as if it's sitting on a center stand and can easily stand up on level ground to kick start it. I'm sure this would not be the case on the side of a hill or in deep powder. All three of us ended up with our pants melted at the very bottom, inside cuff of our left leg even though the header was wrapped. Maybe they didn't wrap it far enough back? I would DEFINITELY have to make some modifications to the bike, for me; namely lowering the footpegs, raising the handlebars, protecting the exhaust, as well as stiffening the front forks, a little. It was a pretty warm spring day, but we didn't use the grip heaters. Even my wife had no problem with getting cold and she normally has her sled's grip heaters set on "well done."
This was my very first ride on a snow bike; it was not Toby's nor does the owner have any affiliation with Toby, at all. The owner did say that they have ridden the 2017 Timbersled and it feels much more like a dirt bike, but that it still has the same heavy feeling / steering on the front end.
I do want to thank Toby for the money, time, and effort he put into this thread. Even if you want to completely dismiss his opinions on the Timbersled, there is a wealth of good information for all of us. If you ever talk to him live, I think you'll find he has a wealth of valuable, candid opinions.
P.S. One more thing: None of us were even close to tipping over or getting stuck.
The very first thing I noticed was how INCREDIBLY HEAVY and hard-steering the front end was in the packed snow. However, the ski never slipped at all in the corners. Granted, I had very little time to get accustomed to the snow bike and it was a demo, so I probably didn't push it anywhere near it's limits but I was cranking some pretty hard corners on the flat ground as well as around trees. The more you can lean the the less you have to actually turn the handlebars, the better. I even had no issues negotiating the parking lot which had visible gravel / mud, slush, and hard-packed snow. The only place that you had NO steering was on bare asphalt and the bike went straight across it with no problems. (STRAIGHT is the key word, there.
)The next thing that really stuck out to me is how the existing snowmobile tracks, ruts, holes, off-cambers, etc. have almost no effect on the bike, at all. I really expected it to get squirrely when you hit these obstacles at shallow angles, but you could completely ignore them as you ride.
It's a little hard to evaluate the track in easy conditions like these, but I never really felt the track spin unless I really tried to spin it (coming up out of a cone around a tree, etc.) and it never slid. It does kick up an incredible amount of roost, especially with no flap on the back.
I said that I would probably only be on it for a short while to get a feel for it and decide if I wanted to look into buying one, but ended up running it completely out of gas and had to refuel it to get it back.
Definitely plan on carrying extra fuel!The snow bike seems very slow from a seat-of-the pants perspective; but I believe it is very deceiving. Even though a sled will easily outrun it at top speed, you can hear how hard a sled is working to keep up and how much more a sled is impacted by the terrain. This is a double-edged sword: you don't have to work nearly as hard at dealing with the terrain, but you don't get as much of an adrenaline fix on the same type of ride and you don't have the screaming 2-stroke to add to the perception of speed. On the flip side, you can really cut between the trees with ease. To me, mixing snowmobiles and snow bikes on the same ride is a lot like trying to ride with a combined group of dirt bikes and ATV's in dirt. Each is fun, in their own right, but mixing them together on the same ride on the same trail doesn't generally work out well for one group or the other, or both.
My oldest daughter is now also hooked on snow bikes after ripping around on it (a fair amount of time at full throttle in top gear), and my wife even enjoyed it, although she is not an aggressive rider, at all.
Some other observations: I was surprised how stable the bike is when parked or riding very slow, I guess I expected it to tip over easier than it does, even given the track width. You can climb onto it as if it's sitting on a center stand and can easily stand up on level ground to kick start it. I'm sure this would not be the case on the side of a hill or in deep powder. All three of us ended up with our pants melted at the very bottom, inside cuff of our left leg even though the header was wrapped. Maybe they didn't wrap it far enough back? I would DEFINITELY have to make some modifications to the bike, for me; namely lowering the footpegs, raising the handlebars, protecting the exhaust, as well as stiffening the front forks, a little. It was a pretty warm spring day, but we didn't use the grip heaters. Even my wife had no problem with getting cold and she normally has her sled's grip heaters set on "well done."
This was my very first ride on a snow bike; it was not Toby's nor does the owner have any affiliation with Toby, at all. The owner did say that they have ridden the 2017 Timbersled and it feels much more like a dirt bike, but that it still has the same heavy feeling / steering on the front end.
I do want to thank Toby for the money, time, and effort he put into this thread. Even if you want to completely dismiss his opinions on the Timbersled, there is a wealth of good information for all of us. If you ever talk to him live, I think you'll find he has a wealth of valuable, candid opinions.
P.S. One more thing: None of us were even close to tipping over or getting stuck.
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my take....
i have been following this thread since day one. i know toby till as the guy who, for a fee, let me demo several bikes/kits last april and ultimately sold me my first kit (ts). since then, i have also purchased several accessories from him that have all worked as promised. from my experience, he is a good dude. i probably have a little bias towards him based on that but, other than the kit, which i got a good deal on out-of-season, everything else i have purchased from him is at full retail so if i have a gripe, i'm not going to be shy about it. here are my thoughts about this thread:
the good:
-let's start with the effort. serious time not to mention serious cash. it takes money to make money and he is running a business to move product. capitalism 101. no one can discount what it would take (and i don't think anyone is) to undertake this journey.
-lots of good technical info. regardless of what kit you are biased to. weights, modifications (if necessary) instruction guidelines, etc. all informative.
-entertaining. reading some of the responses had me nodding, chuckling, and sometimes scratching my head but i always looked forward to clicking on this thread.
the bad:
-i thought the ts product was dogged in the review. i say that not being a big ts fan based on issues i experienced back when i was a ts snowmobile accessories dealer. if there were competitors' snowbike kits available last summer, there is about 99% chance that's what i would have now. and believe me, i tried. i talked to yeti, cmx, and mototrax and had the resources and intent to purchase multiple kits from whoever. they were all assuming they would have kits available for the '15-'16 season but none were 100% sure due to i'm assuming polaris buying out ts and now having the resources to defend any possible patent infringement. so all this being said, i'm thinking why even include ts in this review? i dont' know the details of toby and ts/polaris going in different directions and don't need to. if this is thread to highlight the "new kids on the block", keep it as such and make that statement from the get go. including the ts kit as a baseline but not really allowing it to compete head to head could lead to questioning the credibility of the entire thread. though i haven't personally ridden a '16 ts kit, i'm guessing the difference in performance between it and the competitors is similar to differences in the actual competitors' kits; better at some things, not as good at others.
-i dont' know if it's bad but maybe noteworthy to have a retailer selling competing kits? from the information provided, fully pimped out kits appear to be reasonably close in performance. if that's the case, to most consumers it will boil down to price. you're going to have to really want a yeti for the coin you will spend unless it does things the others simply can't. from experience, it seems more often than not the dealerships that only sell one brand of snowmobile sell that brand not only on the strengths of that brand but also on the perceived weaknesses of the competition; good vs. bad. the multiple brand dealers can't do that. they sell you on "what are your preferences?"; good vs. good. neither approach is a guarantee for success but i feel the latter keeps everything more vanilla and may be more sales based as opposed to fact based. again, this is just my opinion although i am currently a vendor for several companies that provide snowmobile (and also a few snowbike) accessories so i feel i am not talking out of place on this.
so after saying all this, i would welcome the opportunity (if still available) to ride all 3 and give my impressions. i was actually going to call toby to ask if he was going to provide a demo (for a fee) just like last year and if yes, sign me up. there isn't a better way to decide. your riding ability, style, physical size and weight, etc. on each kit on the same bike and in the same snow. the fact that this opportunity could possibly exist again, in my backyard, as it did last year, is a huge asset that i'm not sure exists anywhere else. if it does, take advantage!
thanks again for everything mr. toby. hope to hear from you soon or at least see you on the hill. my skills have improved a little since the last time we rode...
mr. jeff
ps: was scheduled for a mototrax demo today but unfortunately got sidelined. will try to re-schedule and give a review asap.
i have been following this thread since day one. i know toby till as the guy who, for a fee, let me demo several bikes/kits last april and ultimately sold me my first kit (ts). since then, i have also purchased several accessories from him that have all worked as promised. from my experience, he is a good dude. i probably have a little bias towards him based on that but, other than the kit, which i got a good deal on out-of-season, everything else i have purchased from him is at full retail so if i have a gripe, i'm not going to be shy about it. here are my thoughts about this thread:
the good:
-let's start with the effort. serious time not to mention serious cash. it takes money to make money and he is running a business to move product. capitalism 101. no one can discount what it would take (and i don't think anyone is) to undertake this journey.
-lots of good technical info. regardless of what kit you are biased to. weights, modifications (if necessary) instruction guidelines, etc. all informative.
-entertaining. reading some of the responses had me nodding, chuckling, and sometimes scratching my head but i always looked forward to clicking on this thread.
the bad:
-i thought the ts product was dogged in the review. i say that not being a big ts fan based on issues i experienced back when i was a ts snowmobile accessories dealer. if there were competitors' snowbike kits available last summer, there is about 99% chance that's what i would have now. and believe me, i tried. i talked to yeti, cmx, and mototrax and had the resources and intent to purchase multiple kits from whoever. they were all assuming they would have kits available for the '15-'16 season but none were 100% sure due to i'm assuming polaris buying out ts and now having the resources to defend any possible patent infringement. so all this being said, i'm thinking why even include ts in this review? i dont' know the details of toby and ts/polaris going in different directions and don't need to. if this is thread to highlight the "new kids on the block", keep it as such and make that statement from the get go. including the ts kit as a baseline but not really allowing it to compete head to head could lead to questioning the credibility of the entire thread. though i haven't personally ridden a '16 ts kit, i'm guessing the difference in performance between it and the competitors is similar to differences in the actual competitors' kits; better at some things, not as good at others.
-i dont' know if it's bad but maybe noteworthy to have a retailer selling competing kits? from the information provided, fully pimped out kits appear to be reasonably close in performance. if that's the case, to most consumers it will boil down to price. you're going to have to really want a yeti for the coin you will spend unless it does things the others simply can't. from experience, it seems more often than not the dealerships that only sell one brand of snowmobile sell that brand not only on the strengths of that brand but also on the perceived weaknesses of the competition; good vs. bad. the multiple brand dealers can't do that. they sell you on "what are your preferences?"; good vs. good. neither approach is a guarantee for success but i feel the latter keeps everything more vanilla and may be more sales based as opposed to fact based. again, this is just my opinion although i am currently a vendor for several companies that provide snowmobile (and also a few snowbike) accessories so i feel i am not talking out of place on this.
so after saying all this, i would welcome the opportunity (if still available) to ride all 3 and give my impressions. i was actually going to call toby to ask if he was going to provide a demo (for a fee) just like last year and if yes, sign me up. there isn't a better way to decide. your riding ability, style, physical size and weight, etc. on each kit on the same bike and in the same snow. the fact that this opportunity could possibly exist again, in my backyard, as it did last year, is a huge asset that i'm not sure exists anywhere else. if it does, take advantage!
thanks again for everything mr. toby. hope to hear from you soon or at least see you on the hill. my skills have improved a little since the last time we rode...
mr. jeff
ps: was scheduled for a mototrax demo today but unfortunately got sidelined. will try to re-schedule and give a review asap.
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D
DenverSnowBike
Active member
This is Erik Larson as mentioned above. Here is my written review supplementing the video interview from above.
As Toby stated above, I have known him for a year now. I wanted to get into snow biking and snow checked a 2016 SX 137 w/ TSS last year from him. We had many conversations about this kit and others before I pulled the trigger. Weight, riding style, what I wanted out of a kit. I wanted the "Cadillac", do everything model and that's what I got. Getting to know Toby was cool, I could tell he was genuine and not just looking to sell kits and accessories. He gave honest opinions about everything. He told me what he liked/disliked about certain products. He based his opinions on real world experience and testing. If it didn't live up to the hype, or wasn't worth it, he didn't endorse it. Plain and simple.
He called me on Friday 4/1 and asked me if I wanted to go up and beat on these three different kits and write an honest, non-biased review...HECK YEAH!
I have been following this thread, and have read other opinions on different setups over this winter prior to riding these kits.
My background...32 years old, motocross track and single track rider in Colorado. Definitely have the "need for speed" gene, always looking for a rush. Rode snowmobiles growing up in the winter.
1st year snow bike rider...as mentioned: Timbersled owner.
I am not affiliated with any company, I am not sponsored by any company, I wasn't paid or given anything to write this review. I am just an average Joe like most of us, giving my honest opinion and review of each kit.
All bikes were exactly the same: 2016 Yamaha YZFX 450's, seat concepts seats, Fastway risers, hand guards and adventure pegs. Zero difference.
Kits tested:
2016 Timbersled Short track 120 w/ TSS (not SX)
2016 CMX BK Short track 120
2016 Yeti Short track 120
Kim and I rode each bike for at least an hour...switching from bike A to bike B to bike C back to B back to A, etc...we rode in an area called Jones Pass...open meadows, deep and steep trees, hills climbs, groomed trails, basically a little bit of everything you can come across.
2016 Timbersled Short track 120 w/ TSS
I felt at home on this kit, because it is most similar to my own. I did enjoy being on a ST vs a LT (I am actually switching to a ST for next year, this helped confirm my decision). The kit felt great, plush, quick, grabbed traction in every situation. My biggest complaint since the first time I ever hopped on a snow bike: the ski. Grabby, sometimes hard to navigate, especially at slower speeds in the trees, you have to work this thing to make it go where you want to go.
While I was on this kit and Kim was on the Yeti, I was chasing him around and we did some climbing and I could see him washing out a little bit and I would definitely gain ground on him. Great kit, top notch track!
2016 Yeti Short track 120
My reaction after the first 200 yards...wow...I can steer comfortably!! The ski pressure was so much lighter, HUGE difference. Also first reaction was how much lighter it felt. Was it day and night difference? No. But it definitely felt and rode lighter. Everything I did on this kit felt in control, it never darted, it always went where I wanted it to go (with ease), I could reverse back up the hill on a dime and felt very comfortable doing so.
The suspension surprised me, in a good way. I was ripping through a meadow and was heading back onto the groomed trail and was about to get on it and realized there was a waist high berm in front of me, crap! When in doubt it, throttle out
So I launched it and landed fairly hard on the flat, groomed trail. Plush landing! It wasn't a huge hit by any means, but it was enough where suspension mattered!
The Yeti with the Fox Float shocks on the tunnel, rigid mount is on even par with the Timbersled Fox coil over tunnel shocks w/ TSS in my opinion.
Superb kit, very light feeling (front and back), very nimble! Downfall - track is not on par with the TS kit.
Last but not least...
2016 CMX BK Short track 120
This kit and the Yeti rode very similar, minus a few differences in suspension and throttle response.
First off...this kit was armed with the Yeti front assembly and ski.
Second off...it has the same track as the Yeti...
The throttle response was immediate...not sure if it was because of the belt drive, or the tunnel suspension. If you haven't visually checked out this kit, do it. You will see the different arm, opposite of the others.
When I would come out of a dip and the bike would get "light" (not air born) the thing would just keep pulling! There was no hesitation, or "chain slack effect", kept trucking along! Very snappy! This thing wanted to rock n roll!
I felt like this kit had better traction than the Yeti kit, even though it had the same track. The suspension transfers the energy better...
One thing I didn't like...when we were helping Toby load up the bikes at the end of the day, I grabbed onto the back of the tunnel (without gloves) to help move it along, and the edges were sharp. Not knife blade sharp, but not very skin friendly. When grabbing onto the TS tunnel, there's a nice round handle...
All in all...THREE AWESOME KITS!
There wasn't a "loser"...pro's and con's to them all.
If I had to make a do or die decision on which is the "best" (money was not an object), I would pick the Yeti kit. Craftsmanship of this kit is second to none, the weight savings is noticeable and that ski!! Let's all face it, unless you're running a big turbo bike, you're looking for every advantage to shave a few pounds off of your setup and gain some HP. 7 pounds of weight savings is equal to 1hp ( so they say ). As stated multiple times, the track is not equal to the Timbersled, BUT I don't think someone riding the Timbersled is going to go anywhere the Yeti can't.
So that's it...my reviews of the three 2016 kits.
Side notes and thoughts for 2017 kits...
Timbersled has the LE option which I have heard nothing but awesome reviews for...that will help get them on top of the suspension game.
Yeti and CMX BK tracks are getting upgraded...Yeti now has a "TSS" of their own, I forget the exact verbage.
Let's not forget about Timbersleds SX model...2" narrower, Fox Floats for '15-'16 and Fox Zero QS3r shocks on the '17...hard to compare apples to apples against the other two kits, but an awesome option!
Maybe we can do this again next year with all the upgrades from the different kits! Might be a whole different ball game, might not be...
Also, let me state this...next year I will be riding a 2016 Timbersled Short track (found a smoking deal on a dealer leftover, still in the crate kit)...I will be either getting the LE upgrade package, or just getting the shocks revalved...along with my TSS.
As Toby stated above, I have known him for a year now. I wanted to get into snow biking and snow checked a 2016 SX 137 w/ TSS last year from him. We had many conversations about this kit and others before I pulled the trigger. Weight, riding style, what I wanted out of a kit. I wanted the "Cadillac", do everything model and that's what I got. Getting to know Toby was cool, I could tell he was genuine and not just looking to sell kits and accessories. He gave honest opinions about everything. He told me what he liked/disliked about certain products. He based his opinions on real world experience and testing. If it didn't live up to the hype, or wasn't worth it, he didn't endorse it. Plain and simple.
He called me on Friday 4/1 and asked me if I wanted to go up and beat on these three different kits and write an honest, non-biased review...HECK YEAH!
I have been following this thread, and have read other opinions on different setups over this winter prior to riding these kits.
My background...32 years old, motocross track and single track rider in Colorado. Definitely have the "need for speed" gene, always looking for a rush. Rode snowmobiles growing up in the winter.
1st year snow bike rider...as mentioned: Timbersled owner.
I am not affiliated with any company, I am not sponsored by any company, I wasn't paid or given anything to write this review. I am just an average Joe like most of us, giving my honest opinion and review of each kit.
All bikes were exactly the same: 2016 Yamaha YZFX 450's, seat concepts seats, Fastway risers, hand guards and adventure pegs. Zero difference.
Kits tested:
2016 Timbersled Short track 120 w/ TSS (not SX)
2016 CMX BK Short track 120
2016 Yeti Short track 120
Kim and I rode each bike for at least an hour...switching from bike A to bike B to bike C back to B back to A, etc...we rode in an area called Jones Pass...open meadows, deep and steep trees, hills climbs, groomed trails, basically a little bit of everything you can come across.
2016 Timbersled Short track 120 w/ TSS
I felt at home on this kit, because it is most similar to my own. I did enjoy being on a ST vs a LT (I am actually switching to a ST for next year, this helped confirm my decision). The kit felt great, plush, quick, grabbed traction in every situation. My biggest complaint since the first time I ever hopped on a snow bike: the ski. Grabby, sometimes hard to navigate, especially at slower speeds in the trees, you have to work this thing to make it go where you want to go.
While I was on this kit and Kim was on the Yeti, I was chasing him around and we did some climbing and I could see him washing out a little bit and I would definitely gain ground on him. Great kit, top notch track!
2016 Yeti Short track 120
My reaction after the first 200 yards...wow...I can steer comfortably!! The ski pressure was so much lighter, HUGE difference. Also first reaction was how much lighter it felt. Was it day and night difference? No. But it definitely felt and rode lighter. Everything I did on this kit felt in control, it never darted, it always went where I wanted it to go (with ease), I could reverse back up the hill on a dime and felt very comfortable doing so.
The suspension surprised me, in a good way. I was ripping through a meadow and was heading back onto the groomed trail and was about to get on it and realized there was a waist high berm in front of me, crap! When in doubt it, throttle out
So I launched it and landed fairly hard on the flat, groomed trail. Plush landing! It wasn't a huge hit by any means, but it was enough where suspension mattered! The Yeti with the Fox Float shocks on the tunnel, rigid mount is on even par with the Timbersled Fox coil over tunnel shocks w/ TSS in my opinion.
Superb kit, very light feeling (front and back), very nimble! Downfall - track is not on par with the TS kit.
Last but not least...
2016 CMX BK Short track 120
This kit and the Yeti rode very similar, minus a few differences in suspension and throttle response.
First off...this kit was armed with the Yeti front assembly and ski.
Second off...it has the same track as the Yeti...
The throttle response was immediate...not sure if it was because of the belt drive, or the tunnel suspension. If you haven't visually checked out this kit, do it. You will see the different arm, opposite of the others.
When I would come out of a dip and the bike would get "light" (not air born) the thing would just keep pulling! There was no hesitation, or "chain slack effect", kept trucking along! Very snappy! This thing wanted to rock n roll!
I felt like this kit had better traction than the Yeti kit, even though it had the same track. The suspension transfers the energy better...
One thing I didn't like...when we were helping Toby load up the bikes at the end of the day, I grabbed onto the back of the tunnel (without gloves) to help move it along, and the edges were sharp. Not knife blade sharp, but not very skin friendly. When grabbing onto the TS tunnel, there's a nice round handle...
All in all...THREE AWESOME KITS!
There wasn't a "loser"...pro's and con's to them all.
If I had to make a do or die decision on which is the "best" (money was not an object), I would pick the Yeti kit. Craftsmanship of this kit is second to none, the weight savings is noticeable and that ski!! Let's all face it, unless you're running a big turbo bike, you're looking for every advantage to shave a few pounds off of your setup and gain some HP. 7 pounds of weight savings is equal to 1hp ( so they say ). As stated multiple times, the track is not equal to the Timbersled, BUT I don't think someone riding the Timbersled is going to go anywhere the Yeti can't.
So that's it...my reviews of the three 2016 kits.
Side notes and thoughts for 2017 kits...
Timbersled has the LE option which I have heard nothing but awesome reviews for...that will help get them on top of the suspension game.
Yeti and CMX BK tracks are getting upgraded...Yeti now has a "TSS" of their own, I forget the exact verbage.
Let's not forget about Timbersleds SX model...2" narrower, Fox Floats for '15-'16 and Fox Zero QS3r shocks on the '17...hard to compare apples to apples against the other two kits, but an awesome option!
Maybe we can do this again next year with all the upgrades from the different kits! Might be a whole different ball game, might not be...
Also, let me state this...next year I will be riding a 2016 Timbersled Short track (found a smoking deal on a dealer leftover, still in the crate kit)...I will be either getting the LE upgrade package, or just getting the shocks revalved...along with my TSS.
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Ok.....
I better come down and pick up the Hulk and "test" it out up here in MT for the rest of the season......
I better come down and pick up the Hulk and "test" it out up here in MT for the rest of the season......
This is Erik Larson as mentioned above. Here is my written review supplementing the video interview from above.
As Toby stated above, I have known him for a year now. I wanted to get into snow biking and snow checked a 2016 SX 137 w/ TSS last year from him. We had many conversations about this kit and others before I pulled the trigger. Weight, riding style, what I wanted out of a kit. I wanted the "Cadillac", do everything model and that's what I got. Getting to know Toby was cool, I could tell he was genuine and not just looking to sell kits and accessories. He gave honest opinions about everything. He told me what he liked/disliked about certain products. He based his opinions on real world experience and testing. If it didn't live up to the hype, or wasn't worth it, he didn't endorse it. Plain and simple.
He called me on Friday 4/1 and asked me if I wanted to go up and beat on these three different kits and write an honest, non-biased review...HECK YEAH!
I have been following this thread, and have read other opinions on different setups over this winter prior to riding these kits.
My background...32 years old, motocross track and single track rider in Colorado. Definitely have the "need for speed" gene, always looking for a rush. Rode snowmobiles growing up in the winter.
1st year snow bike rider...as mentioned: Timbersled owner.
I am not affiliated with any company, I am not sponsored by any company, I wasn't paid or given anything to write this review. I am just an average Joe like most of us, giving my honest opinion and review of each kit.
All bikes were exactly the same: 2016 Yamaha YZFX 450's, seat concepts seats, Fastway risers, hand guards and adventure pegs. Zero difference.
Kits tested:
2016 Timbersled Short track 120 w/ TSS (not SX)
2016 CMX BK Short track 120
2016 Yeti Short track 120
Kim and I rode each bike for at least an hour...switching from bike A to bike B to bike C back to B back to A, etc...we rode in an area called Jones Pass...open meadows, deep and steep trees, hills climbs, groomed trails, basically a little bit of everything you can come across.
2016 Timbersled Short track 120 w/ TSS
I felt at home on this kit, because it is most similar to my own. I did enjoy being on a ST vs a LT (I am actually switching to a ST for next year, this helped confirm my decision). The kit felt great, plush, quick, grabbed traction in every situation. My biggest complaint since the first time I ever hopped on a snow bike: the ski. Grabby, sometimes hard to navigate, especially at slower speeds in the trees, you have to work this thing to make it go where you want to go.
While I was on this kit and Kim was on the Yeti, I was chasing him around and we did some climbing and I could see him washing out a little bit and I would definitely gain ground on him. Great kit, top notch track!
2016 Yeti Short track 120
My reaction after the first 200 yards...wow...I can steer comfortably!! The ski pressure was so much lighter, HUGE difference. Also first reaction was how much lighter it felt. Was it day and night difference? No. But it definitely felt and rode lighter. Everything I did on this kit felt in control, it never darted, it always went where I wanted it to go (with ease), I could reverse back up the hill on a dime and felt very comfortable doing so.
The suspension surprised me, in a good way. I was ripping through a meadow and was heading back onto the groomed trail and was about to get on it and realized there was a waist high berm in front of me, crap! When in doubt it, throttle out
The Yeti with the Fox Float shocks on the tunnel, rigid mount is on even par with the Timbersled Fox coil over tunnel shocks w/ TSS in my opinion.
Superb kit, very light feeling (front and back), very nimble! Downfall - track is not on par with the TS kit.
Last but not least...
2016 CMX BK Short track 120
This kit and the Yeti rode very similar, minus a few differences in suspension and throttle response.
First off...this kit was armed with the Yeti front assembly and ski.
Second off...it has the same track as the Yeti...
The throttle response was immediate...not sure if it was because of the belt drive, or the tunnel suspension. If you haven't visually checked out this kit, do it. You will see the different arm, opposite of the others.
When I would come out of a dip and the bike would get "light" (not air born) the thing would just keep pulling! There was no hesitation, or "chain slack effect", kept trucking along! Very snappy! This thing wanted to rock n roll!
I felt like this kit had better traction than the Yeti kit, even though it had the same track. The suspension transfers the energy better...
One thing I didn't like...when we were helping Toby load up the bikes at the end of the day, I grabbed onto the back of the tunnel (without gloves) to help move it along, and the edges were sharp. Not knife blade sharp, but not very skin friendly. When grabbing onto the TS tunnel, there's a nice round handle...
All in all...THREE AWESOME KITS!
There wasn't a "loser"...pro's and con's to them all.
If I had to make a do or die decision on which is the "best" (money was not an object), I would pick the Yeti kit. Craftsmanship of this kit is second to none, the weight savings is noticeable and that ski!! Let's all face it, unless you're running a big turbo bike, you're looking for every advantage to shave a few pounds off of your setup and gain some HP. 7 pounds of weight savings is equal to 1hp ( so they say ). As stated multiple times, the track is not equal to the Timbersled, BUT I don't think someone riding the Timbersled is going to go anywhere the Yeti can't.
So that's it...my reviews of the three 2016 kits.
Side notes and thoughts for 2017 kits...
Timbersled has the LE option which I have heard nothing but awesome reviews for...that will help get them on top of the suspension game.
Yeti and CMX BK tracks are getting upgraded...Yeti now has a "TSS" of their own, I forget the exact verbage.
Let's not forget about Timbersleds SX model...2" narrower, Fox Floats for '15-'16 and Fox Zero QS3r shocks on the '17...hard to compare apples to apples against the other two kits, but an awesome option!
Maybe we can do this again next year with all the upgrades from the different kits! Might be a whole different ball game, might not be...
Also, let me state this...next year I will be riding a 2016 Timbersled Short track (found a smoking deal on a dealer leftover, still in the crate kit)...I will be either getting the LE upgrade package, or just getting the shocks revalved...along with my TSS.
anyone have a Pic of that max trak 2?
Ill try to throw in my 2cents... Im not lucky enough to ride all the same kits, or all the same bikes, let alone the same day, But I have had the privledge of riding with/switching up bikes with some 129CMX and 129 Yeti kits. Also get to turn wrenches on most everything too so I have a lot of appreciation for fit and finish.
I have personally run many hours on a 13 TS ST, 14 TS ST, and a 16 ST with TSS for the first part of the year and now a 16 SX with TSS since Feb. I have also been lucky enough to switch out on a fair amount of different bike/kit combos so have a decent handle on what is kit at work and what is bike/setup.
TS - ST and SX. - Ill try and combo the review of both since the ST went to my dad, and we have the same bikes and mods. There is a reason people refer to the TS kit as the benchmark. They flat work, spring snow, deep snow. They are fun. Build quality on the 16 kits is really nice, they ahve upped the little details each year since they started and its a super solid kit.
The TS track seems to hook by far the best of all the kits. I have rode both kits from rotten corn snow, to thigh deep BC pow, to spring mush and 9/10 it seems to find traction and keep on trucking. Even the SX kit with the narrow track and less ideal approach seems to keep trucking amazingly for how little footprint there is. The 16 ST shock package left a bit to be desired for me as I tend to ride very hard on whooped out trails and jumps. For the average rider they work very well and the 16 skid geometry with these shocks just gets up on the snow and moves. The Float 3's in the SX are nice as they allow me to jack the air up a bit if Im planning on riding it harder or snow is getting more setup so I don't break things. Im not a big fan of air shocks, but this adjustment is key for those wanting to hammer these things like a dirtbike. The new RC2 shocks will be going on my kit as soon as I can get a set. Ive had an amazing season so far on these 2 kits, i have about 90 hours on the ST and 40 hours on the SX kit and have had a blast. Ive broken a few little bits and pieces due to my riding habits but, new model, and warranty got it all taken care of ASAP. Very pleased with how it was all handled and how much abuse its held up too.
CMX - I have a hard time giving this a fair review as I didn't feel confident pushing it very hard since it still has the X2 front and I do not feel like I can really ride the "kit" to its potential because I can't trust what the front end is going to do. I did my best to asses how the rear performed independent of the ski(s).
Overall build quality is solid, Haven't had to wrench on one yet so cant speak too much on it. Overall kit looks rock solid, as everything the guys at CMX do. Machined over structure is trick, less variability then welded tube. I dig that. I like the idea of the right side case, keeping the whole balance good, but add that and larger pegs and kick start bikes get a little tight. Nothing hits, just have more limited angles to get a solid kick on it. Also, same as Erik mentioned above, The rear bumper kind of sucks. Not the end of the world, but the TS round tube is a lot nicer, and the molded yeti handle is ridiculously nice. I LOVE the raptor shocks. Good coil over resi shocks make me happy. The skid geometry coupled with the shocks feel really good, its super playful and soaks up bumps surprisingly well for being fixed strut. Honestly cant tell the difference in feel of the 129 CMX kit vs my 120 TS. The skid setup makes it feel very easy to float the nose and move around. I would really love to throw a leg over a 120, bet its a riot. Track is same as the Yeti, there is a reason there is a Max Trak 2 coming out. It works well, and you can pull a higher gear and it doesn't seem to bog out like the TS, but its because its just spinning. For deep pow, doesn't seem to matter as much, but as the snow firms, you can tell there is room to improve. CMX did what CMX always does. Take something that works well, and make it better. With a slightly lighter kit the TS and skid setup that makes it feel MORE like a dirt bike. Its a very nice kit priced well. and with the Yeti front end an option next year, This is another great offering. Hoping to get over and ride with the CMX crew with these setups as the spring progresses.
YETI-I have have spent a bit of time turning a wrench on one of them (just taking it apart to get parts anodized, nothing broken) and the fit and finish is TOP NOTCH, This kit takes the cake for build quality, Every detail is so rediculously refined its really hard to believe it is a first year model. Im constantly blown away by how well all the little pieces are thought out. Nothing seems rushed or under developed. You get what you pay for on build quality and materials.
This kits origins are very apparent when you ride it. It feels VERY stable and wants to get up on the snow and go. I can see this working awesome in the super deep days. I have not had a chance to ride it in deep snow, but can see its performance translating very well. Its not mind blowingly better then a TS setup for performance but the skid setup (and obviously less weight) just wants to plane out and tractor along. I know lots of guys claim they pull an extra gear compared to a TS, and it will, but I have yet to see it translate into major changes in ground speed. It seems to carry a tiny bit more. At ~36 pounds lighter it should. Again, the lighter package and skid geometry seems to make it just carry through the snow VERY well. I didn't notice the weight as much riding as I thought I would. But the biggest thing is when you get stuck. The kit doesn't seem to auger in as bad as a TS and the reduced weight is awesome, You can just grab the thing and toss it out with ease. I know we'd all like to pretend we don't get stuck. But its probably where we burn most of our energy, so to make this easier is very nice. Also, being a lighter rider I appreciate how much weight affects vehicle performance and there is no taking that away from the Yeti. Also, the skid seems to soak up bumps very well, Its very soft yet doesn't seem to bottom violently. It does not feel nearly as bike like as the TS or CMX setup, but it seems to go through the snow the best. For a pure deep snow player, It seems like the obvious choice if your budget will allow. I will get a chance to throw a leg over the same setup with an RRS added shortly. Ill report back then.
Front ends.
X2 - least favorite, Really have not found a scenario where it works better then TS or Yeti ski.
TS ski - Really good for variable conditions. Its the All Terrain tire. I think there could be some small changes made to it to bridge some of the gaps that the Yeti has an edge on, but For a rider who rides deep pow to late spring it just works. All the Time. Hard to find "faults" in it. The yeti has some stronger points but I never dislike anything about the TS.
Yeti ski- Bigger, curved pattern, It looks like a big powder ski you'd see strapped to a backcountry skier on a 4' day. (and acts like it) Again, born out of the deep BC pow, thats where it works. Also, the outer rib extending up forward more seems to inspire more confidence in riders when cornering as it bites and doesn't want to wash out as bad. BUT, BUT BUT, lol. This ski is a PITA in the wet thick mashed potato snow. When sidehilling the uphill side seems to bit in SO hard that it just wants to drag you straight uphill. Out in the open its fine but I felt like I spent more effort trying to keep the bike turned out of the hill then I did riding. The TS seems to just glide through this type of snow. If your a powder snob. This ski is the ticket, I may put one on my SX kit next year for earlier season as it just works in powder.
A quick note on suspension vs solid strut kits. I will never own a fixed strut style kit again. Kits seem to have a slight edge in the deep snow being fixed but the gains in agility and "bike like" reaction is far more of a perk to me. When railing corners the pivot in the stock swing arm location makes it far easier to knife in and cut super aggressively. Also, when cutting across gullies the bike feels more compliant and less likely to spear you into the far wall. Better shock setup in the skid soaks up the bumper really well but the overall feel of the assembly is better IMO when the kit flexs with the bike. Also the suspension seems somewhat bottomless. It may be a harsh landing but it never gets the bone jarring, locked out, sensation you get on a fixed kit IMO.
Different strokes for different folks, they are all a LOT of fun, but don't beat yourself up too bad about what you get. They all work really well. Key is to get something you can afford and go out and have fun. The memories you make on the hill with your buddies should far outweigh the small performance details.
Happy shredding.
Nick
I have personally run many hours on a 13 TS ST, 14 TS ST, and a 16 ST with TSS for the first part of the year and now a 16 SX with TSS since Feb. I have also been lucky enough to switch out on a fair amount of different bike/kit combos so have a decent handle on what is kit at work and what is bike/setup.
TS - ST and SX. - Ill try and combo the review of both since the ST went to my dad, and we have the same bikes and mods. There is a reason people refer to the TS kit as the benchmark. They flat work, spring snow, deep snow. They are fun. Build quality on the 16 kits is really nice, they ahve upped the little details each year since they started and its a super solid kit.
The TS track seems to hook by far the best of all the kits. I have rode both kits from rotten corn snow, to thigh deep BC pow, to spring mush and 9/10 it seems to find traction and keep on trucking. Even the SX kit with the narrow track and less ideal approach seems to keep trucking amazingly for how little footprint there is. The 16 ST shock package left a bit to be desired for me as I tend to ride very hard on whooped out trails and jumps. For the average rider they work very well and the 16 skid geometry with these shocks just gets up on the snow and moves. The Float 3's in the SX are nice as they allow me to jack the air up a bit if Im planning on riding it harder or snow is getting more setup so I don't break things. Im not a big fan of air shocks, but this adjustment is key for those wanting to hammer these things like a dirtbike. The new RC2 shocks will be going on my kit as soon as I can get a set. Ive had an amazing season so far on these 2 kits, i have about 90 hours on the ST and 40 hours on the SX kit and have had a blast. Ive broken a few little bits and pieces due to my riding habits but, new model, and warranty got it all taken care of ASAP. Very pleased with how it was all handled and how much abuse its held up too.
CMX - I have a hard time giving this a fair review as I didn't feel confident pushing it very hard since it still has the X2 front and I do not feel like I can really ride the "kit" to its potential because I can't trust what the front end is going to do. I did my best to asses how the rear performed independent of the ski(s).
Overall build quality is solid, Haven't had to wrench on one yet so cant speak too much on it. Overall kit looks rock solid, as everything the guys at CMX do. Machined over structure is trick, less variability then welded tube. I dig that. I like the idea of the right side case, keeping the whole balance good, but add that and larger pegs and kick start bikes get a little tight. Nothing hits, just have more limited angles to get a solid kick on it. Also, same as Erik mentioned above, The rear bumper kind of sucks. Not the end of the world, but the TS round tube is a lot nicer, and the molded yeti handle is ridiculously nice. I LOVE the raptor shocks. Good coil over resi shocks make me happy. The skid geometry coupled with the shocks feel really good, its super playful and soaks up bumps surprisingly well for being fixed strut. Honestly cant tell the difference in feel of the 129 CMX kit vs my 120 TS. The skid setup makes it feel very easy to float the nose and move around. I would really love to throw a leg over a 120, bet its a riot. Track is same as the Yeti, there is a reason there is a Max Trak 2 coming out. It works well, and you can pull a higher gear and it doesn't seem to bog out like the TS, but its because its just spinning. For deep pow, doesn't seem to matter as much, but as the snow firms, you can tell there is room to improve. CMX did what CMX always does. Take something that works well, and make it better. With a slightly lighter kit the TS and skid setup that makes it feel MORE like a dirt bike. Its a very nice kit priced well. and with the Yeti front end an option next year, This is another great offering. Hoping to get over and ride with the CMX crew with these setups as the spring progresses.
YETI-I have have spent a bit of time turning a wrench on one of them (just taking it apart to get parts anodized, nothing broken) and the fit and finish is TOP NOTCH, This kit takes the cake for build quality, Every detail is so rediculously refined its really hard to believe it is a first year model. Im constantly blown away by how well all the little pieces are thought out. Nothing seems rushed or under developed. You get what you pay for on build quality and materials.
This kits origins are very apparent when you ride it. It feels VERY stable and wants to get up on the snow and go. I can see this working awesome in the super deep days. I have not had a chance to ride it in deep snow, but can see its performance translating very well. Its not mind blowingly better then a TS setup for performance but the skid setup (and obviously less weight) just wants to plane out and tractor along. I know lots of guys claim they pull an extra gear compared to a TS, and it will, but I have yet to see it translate into major changes in ground speed. It seems to carry a tiny bit more. At ~36 pounds lighter it should. Again, the lighter package and skid geometry seems to make it just carry through the snow VERY well. I didn't notice the weight as much riding as I thought I would. But the biggest thing is when you get stuck. The kit doesn't seem to auger in as bad as a TS and the reduced weight is awesome, You can just grab the thing and toss it out with ease. I know we'd all like to pretend we don't get stuck. But its probably where we burn most of our energy, so to make this easier is very nice. Also, being a lighter rider I appreciate how much weight affects vehicle performance and there is no taking that away from the Yeti. Also, the skid seems to soak up bumps very well, Its very soft yet doesn't seem to bottom violently. It does not feel nearly as bike like as the TS or CMX setup, but it seems to go through the snow the best. For a pure deep snow player, It seems like the obvious choice if your budget will allow. I will get a chance to throw a leg over the same setup with an RRS added shortly. Ill report back then.
Front ends.
X2 - least favorite, Really have not found a scenario where it works better then TS or Yeti ski.
TS ski - Really good for variable conditions. Its the All Terrain tire. I think there could be some small changes made to it to bridge some of the gaps that the Yeti has an edge on, but For a rider who rides deep pow to late spring it just works. All the Time. Hard to find "faults" in it. The yeti has some stronger points but I never dislike anything about the TS.
Yeti ski- Bigger, curved pattern, It looks like a big powder ski you'd see strapped to a backcountry skier on a 4' day. (and acts like it) Again, born out of the deep BC pow, thats where it works. Also, the outer rib extending up forward more seems to inspire more confidence in riders when cornering as it bites and doesn't want to wash out as bad. BUT, BUT BUT, lol. This ski is a PITA in the wet thick mashed potato snow. When sidehilling the uphill side seems to bit in SO hard that it just wants to drag you straight uphill. Out in the open its fine but I felt like I spent more effort trying to keep the bike turned out of the hill then I did riding. The TS seems to just glide through this type of snow. If your a powder snob. This ski is the ticket, I may put one on my SX kit next year for earlier season as it just works in powder.
A quick note on suspension vs solid strut kits. I will never own a fixed strut style kit again. Kits seem to have a slight edge in the deep snow being fixed but the gains in agility and "bike like" reaction is far more of a perk to me. When railing corners the pivot in the stock swing arm location makes it far easier to knife in and cut super aggressively. Also, when cutting across gullies the bike feels more compliant and less likely to spear you into the far wall. Better shock setup in the skid soaks up the bumper really well but the overall feel of the assembly is better IMO when the kit flexs with the bike. Also the suspension seems somewhat bottomless. It may be a harsh landing but it never gets the bone jarring, locked out, sensation you get on a fixed kit IMO.
Different strokes for different folks, they are all a LOT of fun, but don't beat yourself up too bad about what you get. They all work really well. Key is to get something you can afford and go out and have fun. The memories you make on the hill with your buddies should far outweigh the small performance details.
Happy shredding.
Nick
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C
capulin overdrive
Well-known member
Being as how most of us have a gazillion dollars in our rigs.
It really wouldn't be much of a stretch for guys to have both a TS ski and a Yeti ski to swap based on conditions.
And if the ski manufacturers had any sense they'd give us even more options.
Raptor may not be the ticket for the majority of riders, but can't help but think the extra width is good for really big fat guys?
We need a fat guy ski test!
It really wouldn't be much of a stretch for guys to have both a TS ski and a Yeti ski to swap based on conditions.
And if the ski manufacturers had any sense they'd give us even more options.
Raptor may not be the ticket for the majority of riders, but can't help but think the extra width is good for really big fat guys?
We need a fat guy ski test!
From Yeti web site:
http://yetisnowmx.ca/yeti-features/
New for 2017, MAXTRAX II.
25% stiffer lug design helps the paddle stand up in harder snow, and increased snow cupping in the powder conditions increasing performance. Outside unused drive lugs have been removed, reducing 1.75lbs of weight offsetting the increase to the stiffer lugs.
YETI SnowMX
HOME NEWS YETI FEATURES YETI PRODUCTS SEARCH
2017 YETI SNOWMX MODEL FEATURES
C3 POWERSPORTS, one hardcore Canadian company, is proud to introduce its new and improved 2017 YETI Snow MX models. Following are some of the many features of the 2017 YETI SNOWMX models. See what makes the YETI Better, Higher and Faster.
WHATS NEW FOR 2017?
CLEAR COATED CARBON FIBRE CHASSIS WITH UNDERLAID CUSTOM AGGRESSIVE YETI GRAPHICS.
CARBON CHASSIS HAS BEEN ROTATED 2 DEGREES GIVING A MORE AGGRESSIVE STANCE AND LOOK, LIFTING THE REAR BUMPER AN ADDITIONAL 2" * IMAGE NOT AVAILABLE
STANDARD AUTOMATIC CHAIN TENSIONER SYSTEM, TAKING UP CHAIN STRETCH BETWEEN RIDES.
RRS SUSPENSION ADDS ADDITIONAL 9.4" OF SUSPENSION TRAVEL TO THE EXISTING 8" OF TRAVEL FOR A TOTAL OF 18" TOTAL TRAVEL (TOTAL TRAVEL DEPENDS ON CHASSIS LENGTH, VARIES SLIGHTLY) .
RRS SHOCK FEATURES A 20 POSITION CLICKER ADJUSTER FOR THE COMPRESSION DAMPENING.
RRS SHOCK, FEATURES A SIMPLE LOCKOUT SYSTEM. RIDE THE TRAIL WITH 18" OF TRAVEL, THEN LOCK IT OUT WHEN YOU GET TO THE POWDER, HELPING YOU CLIMB IN THE POWDER, AND YOUR BACK ON THE TRAIL.
RAPTOR COIL OVER SUSPENSION WITH 20 CLICKS OF COMPRESSION DAMPENING DIAL TO PROVIDE YOU WITH THE BEST RIDE YOU CAN IMAGINE. QUICK AND RESPONSIVE.
"ANTI-ICE" BRAKE ROTOR, GIVES POSITIVE BRAKING REGARDLESS OF ANY SNOW CONDITIONS
MAXTRAX II, NEW DESIGN, GIVING EXTRA BITE IN THE HARDER CRUSTED SNOW WITH NEW SHAPE POWDER SCOOPS KEEPING THE LUG STANDING UP TALLER IN ALL SNOW CONDITIONS.
29MM WIDE SYNCRODRIVE BELT VS 21MM IN 2016, 38% STRONGER, TESTED.
REDESIGNED SYNCRODRIVE DEFLECTOR, THICKER ON 4 SURFACES, AND NEW LIP LOCKS IN COVER KEEPING SNOW OUT, PLUS CONSTRUCTED OUT OF NEW MATERIAL FOR INCREASED IMPACT STRENGTH.
FULL COLOUR CUSTOM ANODIZING OPTIONS ( FOR SNOWCHECK ORDERS ONLY)
CUSTOM TITANIUM DRIVESHAFT AND JACKSHAFT OPTION, SAVING 2.5LBS (FOR SNOWCHECK ONLY)
MAXKEEL SKI COMES WITH TWO NEW COLOURS: "WHITE" AND "YELLOW"
QUICK RELEASE RAIL SYSTEM TO TIE DOWN YOUR CARGO WHILE YOU RIDE. REMOVE IT QUICKLY TO HIT THE HILL.
MAXKEEL SKI
The MAXKEEL SKI is conveniently CAD designed with the same radius profile of the MAXTRAX track making your YETI package feel like a motorcycle on the dirt.The new standard in precise handling on the trail or in deep powder. Ride with confidence and stay in control with the consistent handling of the deep keel design. Ride with one hand, relax, have fun.
MAXTRAK II
Co-designed by Camso and YETI, the MAXTRAX puts the most horsepower to the snow with the lightest design available and 2.5” paddle design. New for 2017 enhanced MAXTRAX II lug profile for better hard snow performance. Free up horsepower by reducing rotating mass. MAXTRAK II manufactured with special internal track rods allowing the track to flex when cornering, climbing easily and voted by our customers “ most natural dirt bike feeling conversion kit.”
New for 2017, MAXTRAX II.
New for 2017, MAXTRAX II.
25% stiffer lug design helps the paddle stand up in harder snow, and increased snow cupping in the powder conditions increasing performance. Outside unused drive lugs have been removed, reducing 1.75lbs of weight offsetting the increase to the stiffer lugs.
RRS - RIDER REACTIVE STRUT
Co-designed by Raptor Suspension and YETI, this piggy back reservoir shock, features 20 clicks of compression adjustment allowing the rider to quickly fine tune to their preferred ride. The RRS adds an additional 9” of suspension travel to the YETI’s standard 9” giving you 18”+ of suspension, soaking up those trails with ease.
*RRS OPTIONAL EQUIPMENT* (COMES STANDARD ON USA-SHIPPED MODELS)
RAPTOR PERFORMANCE SHOCKS
100% Billet Aluminum Construction •100% High Speed CNC Machined to Exacting Tolerances • Highest Quality Synthetic Blended Fluid • High Strength Delrin Bushings • Cutting Edge Computer Aided Design Software • Cutting Edge Fluid and Thermal Dynamic Modeling Software • Elegant Lightweight Ground Up Design • Progressive high flow Piston Design • Progressive Valve Codes
Internal Blow Off Valve • 20 position clicker • RAP (Rapid Adjust Preload) • NEST (Seal Technology)
CHAIN TENSIONER
New for 2017 Automatic chain tension system, standard on all models.
New for 2017 Automatic chain tension system, standard on all models.
New for 2017, each YETI comes with an automatic chain tension system (ACT). This simple system, takes up any extra chain stretch between chain tension adjustments.
BELT DEFLECTOR
New for 2017, the YETI belt drive deflector, has been made in a new material, tested for impact at -30C and many times stronger than our current material. The overall thickness has also been changed in 4 key areas to increase strength and reliability and the bottom of the deflector has a new lip that comes over the clear cover, stoping snow ingestion, and locking the cover in place. This part will be provided free of charge to all 2016 YETI customers, as a product improvement plan.
C3 POWERSPORTS SYNCRODRIVE BELT DRIVE SYSTEM.
New for 2017 38% stronger.
New for 2017 38% stronger.
The C3 SYNCRODRIVE is 22% more efficient than a chain drive, maximizing the horsepower delivery of your bike to the snow. Easy to use and maintain, no grease no mess. Gearing changes with splined shafts can be made any time or place in less than 5 min. Try new gearing combo’s easily. New for 2017 YETI models, a 29mm wide belt for increased strength.
TITANIUM SHAFTS
Machined from 6AL-4V this Titanium Drive and Jackshaft combination make the ultimate statement that you want the lightest YETI that can be built without compromise. These Titanium shafts are 2.4 pounds lighter than the 1144 steel shafts that are standard equipment in the YETI, saving you weight and freeing up more horsepower for your YETI unique combination.
AEROSPACE MATERIAL
Built to very tight tolerances utilizing a lightweight, yet very strong Carbon Fibre chassis, CAD designed and FEA tested. Titanium bolts and suspension components combined with billet anodized aluminum make the YETI a very strong, yet light weight package.
CUSTOM ANODIZING AND GRAPHIC PACKAGES.
No compromise on fit and finish, high attention to detail throughout, YETI makes a statement that you expect the best. YETI SNOWMX conversion kit delivers the lightest weight, highest performance of any Snow MX conversion. Accessorize your YETI to match your bike, and make a statement without saying a word. Custom packages only available during snow check, get your custom YETI order in to your dealer by April 12, 2016.
R
Rush44
Well-known member
Thanks for that post. It's comforting to know that my opinion on the Yeti ski doesn't show fault in the Yeti ski at all, just my ability to ride and it's my fault the ski doesn't perform as well as it should have. I guess if I just rode it harder it would have been better. I'll remember that.
When I rode the Yeti ski it was never on a Timbersled, always on a Yeti. A nice local guy Todd around here that has a few of them has been kind enough to let me ride his a few times (129's) and I was fortunate enough another owner let me get a full day on a 120 attached to a 450sxf. So while I might not have 4 years of riding a Yeti like you (sounds like you are involved with the company or development directly) I have been fortunate enough to be on them in varying snow conditions AND talk with many Yeti owners about their experiences. I don't just chop down a product cause I feel like it.... if it's great I say so if it isn't I say so. Please notice I have never said anything negative about weight, build quality, customer support, attention to detail, great materials, etc. I focused on two things: the track and the ski. We could talk about the belt issues too but Yeti already acknowledged the issue and is working on a fix. Kudos to their customer support since I have never heard a single bad thing about it.
It's pretty silly to say we aren't capable of riding the Yeti ski because we are so used to wussing out on the TS ski that we just are afraid to do things that the Yeti ski makes possible. Seriously? Nick rides about as hard as anyone I know so I guess he's just not hard enough to fully "get" the Yeti ski. We ride pretty freaking hard over here in the Flathead so I have no idea what kind of next level stuff you guys are pulling off up North. Maybe I should pull out my telescope and look for Yeti snowbike tracks on the Moon.
People come here for information and they deserve to get it. If we made threads and told certain people they couldn't post I'm guessing the best kit around would probably be Frozen Moto since I remember every single negative aspect of it being refuted by the owner Mr. Shanahan. It just wouldn't be right to leave bad information for the uninitiated to read and take as gospel. I'm not the only one who thought the review was heavy handed (as others have mentioned) or completely against Timbersled (as others have mentioned).
But in the end, as Nick says, things have changed. It's not like you are choosing between a Timbersled, a Frozen Moto, a 2moto, and an Explorer kit. Making the wrong decision among those choices would result in hard earned dollars going into the trash. Now we have Timbersled, Yeti, CMX, Snowtech, and MotoTrax (and more in the pipeline). At least if you buy any of these kits you won't be screwed and left holding the bag. So most of us are picking apart areas that are important to our type of riding. I've been lucky to be involved with the sport and have a lot of contacts that give trustworthy information on all the products. I'll continue to offer my opinions and experiences.
I would gladly test those other kits out.
Ok?
So,,,,,,, will these different struts be at all interchangeable between the different kits?
So,,,,,,, will these different struts be at all interchangeable between the different kits?
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Toby,
AWESOME thread!!
The shocks look great... I know that Jake at Raptor works hard on his products... good to see this effort out there.
On the RSS... looks Tight fulcrum point on the lower RSS eye (close to the chassis pivot) ... what is the spring rate on the RSS Spring?
What was the NET added weight (what was added minus what was taken off) for the RSS?
AWESOME thread!!
The shocks look great... I know that Jake at Raptor works hard on his products... good to see this effort out there.
On the RSS... looks Tight fulcrum point on the lower RSS eye (close to the chassis pivot) ... what is the spring rate on the RSS Spring?
What was the NET added weight (what was added minus what was taken off) for the RSS?
The RRS arrived today and we will put some hours on it this weekend.
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yeti and cmxbk demo session 04/08/2016
got the call from toby till asking if i wanted to demo the yeti and cmxbk. meet at jones pass, co (aka death on a stick) at 8am today 4/8/2016. the 2016 ts build (the joker) would not be available as there would only be 3 of us and toby was planning to work on the fuel map for his aerocharged yz450f. not a deal breaker by any means as i have been hoping to throw a leg over both the yeti and cmxbk this season to see how they compared to each other and also to my rig. for reference, i have a 2015 ts lt hooked to a 2014 yz450f with engine and chassis mods. i'm sure the 2016 ts has advantages over my 2015 but i feel my rig is a strong runner and a reasonable point of reference regarding the ts kit.
the conditions:
early morning crust from last night's freeze. horrible, horrible, and horrible. gratefully, i had not yet ridden a snowbike ever in these conditions. during the transition from winter to spring, i never ride early morning because i know how bad it sucked for snowmobiles. today, riding down the trail from the parking lot, it was hard packed but not much different from other hard pack during the winter. once it opened up into the first meadow, and this crazy "crust darting" started, the unpredictability made riding either of these machines zero fun. riding down a paved street would have been more fun. seriously. as the temps warmed up, combined with suspension adjustments, things got better and i was able to attempt to make reasonable comparisons.
the yeti:
i started out on the yeti. toby had just installed the rrs strut. it motored down the hardpacked trail well. the ski held it's line. got to the first meadow with crust and almost went over the bars several times. major darting. when i switched to the cmxbk, although still some darting, nowhere near as bad. we determined that the rrs installed length (which is adjustable) was a bit long. this increased ski pressure making the darting much more pronounced. we adjusted the rrs to full soft and raised the forks in the triple clamps and the darting became "manageable" (similar to the cmxbk). i would note that shifting your weight towards the rear of the seat also noticeably lessened ski pressure.
yeti ski: i have been one of those guys wanting a yeti ski. they may be the bomb in powder but for me it was nasty scary in these conditions. speed didn't matter. i will say toby and his right hand man steve seemed more comfortable with the darting, which i'm guessing is from experience but i can tell you, if you put a newbie on this ski in these conditions, it would be a problem, as in lawsuit problem. i also noticed (after fighting it for an hour or so) that in these conditions the ski wants to run uphill when sidehilling or turning around on an incline. once i figured this out, it made turning on crust easier as you weren't always fighting it. it was a disappointment not to be able to run this ski in softer snow but it is what it is.
yeti track: there is a reason for the maxtrax II for 2017. in today's conditions, the original maxtrax inspired little confidence as the lugs constantly folded over or slid-out in situations where serious throttle was required. hopefully the maxtrax II has a better design/durometer that makes it better in conditions like today but doesn't sacrifice too much performance in powder.
yeti performance: again, hard to tell in these conditions but there was one hardpacked hill that, when we climbed it, it appeared the yeti generated more mph speed than the cmxbk. yeti's claim of being able to pull 1 higher gear than the competition may have some merit at least in these conditions. suspension worked well and the small hits and compressions were handled easily. there wasn't anything i noticed, while riding, that i would have concerns about. i would also add that seeing a yeti up close for the first time, it is, in fact, a mechanized work of art; well done.
the cmxbk:
(for the cmxbk ski and track performance, see paragraphs above as this rig was equipped with the yeti ski and original maxtrax track and both performed the same on either machine.)
cmxbk performance: the cmxbk felt very good overall. i expected this as i have had experience with cmx in the past. mark and company take major pride in whatever they produce. i had the chance to jump this kit today over a windlip. the landing was fairly hard and when i went bigger, my ankles hurt a little. in fairness, my ankles are bad and for someone with "good" ankles, this may not be an issue. even though the solid strut may give up some points on big air hits, it was competitive without a doubt under all other conditions today. i did not like how the cover for the belt drive forced my right foot forward. i like to ride with the balls of my feet on the pegs and this was not possible with a size 11 boot. also, it should be noted that toby broke the belt on this kit when he landed after sending it off the windlip. although disappointed, he did say that he had 40 plus hard hours on the kit/belt. now, i have had my share of belt drives and broken belts. shock loading, at least the way i ride, is a frequent occurrence and that makes me nervous about rolling a belt drive. there is no denying the performance gains with a belt drive system, but i have never broken a chain. not saying it can't be done...just sayin'. in fairness to the cmxbk, once the belt broke, we stopped jumping the yeti as well. my gut feeling tells me if you shock load the yeti, it too will break. seeing that they are offering a bigger belt drive system for 2017 could indicate some truth to this.
to wrap things up, i had to get out on my ts kit to see how bad the darting would be on the ts ski. unfortunately, toby and company had to leave so i went solo. when i got to the "meadow of death" my ts ski did not dart at all. i smiled again as i wicked the throttle and started riding how i normally ride. before the yeti faithful throws shade at me, i'm sure the snow had softened up some, but less than 1 hour before, the darting was still noticeable on the yeti ski when we were rolling back to the parking lot. it would have been great to have the yeti and cmxbk there to compare but again, it is what it is. after experiencing this, i'm feeling there is an argument to owning 2 different skis, assuming the yeti is better in powder. i rode everywhere we rode earlier and i gotta say, my 2015 ts setup worked well. i knew performance-wise, it would be as good or maybe better in some areas because of the mods and setup but i was truly surprised that in some of the more "funky" situations, it was rock and roll. good times. i don't think you could go wrong buying any of the big 3 - yeti, cmxbk, or ts. from what i experienced today, and from what i've been reading, no clear front runner; at least for for 2016. try to ride them all but if you can't, buying any of the big 3 won't be a disappointment imho. still hoping to throw a leg over a mototrax (sooner than later) and a camso (?).
thanks again to toby till for the opportunity. if he posts my video "documentary" from today, hopefully i don't come off as too big of a momo....
jeff
got the call from toby till asking if i wanted to demo the yeti and cmxbk. meet at jones pass, co (aka death on a stick) at 8am today 4/8/2016. the 2016 ts build (the joker) would not be available as there would only be 3 of us and toby was planning to work on the fuel map for his aerocharged yz450f. not a deal breaker by any means as i have been hoping to throw a leg over both the yeti and cmxbk this season to see how they compared to each other and also to my rig. for reference, i have a 2015 ts lt hooked to a 2014 yz450f with engine and chassis mods. i'm sure the 2016 ts has advantages over my 2015 but i feel my rig is a strong runner and a reasonable point of reference regarding the ts kit.
the conditions:
early morning crust from last night's freeze. horrible, horrible, and horrible. gratefully, i had not yet ridden a snowbike ever in these conditions. during the transition from winter to spring, i never ride early morning because i know how bad it sucked for snowmobiles. today, riding down the trail from the parking lot, it was hard packed but not much different from other hard pack during the winter. once it opened up into the first meadow, and this crazy "crust darting" started, the unpredictability made riding either of these machines zero fun. riding down a paved street would have been more fun. seriously. as the temps warmed up, combined with suspension adjustments, things got better and i was able to attempt to make reasonable comparisons.
the yeti:
i started out on the yeti. toby had just installed the rrs strut. it motored down the hardpacked trail well. the ski held it's line. got to the first meadow with crust and almost went over the bars several times. major darting. when i switched to the cmxbk, although still some darting, nowhere near as bad. we determined that the rrs installed length (which is adjustable) was a bit long. this increased ski pressure making the darting much more pronounced. we adjusted the rrs to full soft and raised the forks in the triple clamps and the darting became "manageable" (similar to the cmxbk). i would note that shifting your weight towards the rear of the seat also noticeably lessened ski pressure.
yeti ski: i have been one of those guys wanting a yeti ski. they may be the bomb in powder but for me it was nasty scary in these conditions. speed didn't matter. i will say toby and his right hand man steve seemed more comfortable with the darting, which i'm guessing is from experience but i can tell you, if you put a newbie on this ski in these conditions, it would be a problem, as in lawsuit problem. i also noticed (after fighting it for an hour or so) that in these conditions the ski wants to run uphill when sidehilling or turning around on an incline. once i figured this out, it made turning on crust easier as you weren't always fighting it. it was a disappointment not to be able to run this ski in softer snow but it is what it is.
yeti track: there is a reason for the maxtrax II for 2017. in today's conditions, the original maxtrax inspired little confidence as the lugs constantly folded over or slid-out in situations where serious throttle was required. hopefully the maxtrax II has a better design/durometer that makes it better in conditions like today but doesn't sacrifice too much performance in powder.
yeti performance: again, hard to tell in these conditions but there was one hardpacked hill that, when we climbed it, it appeared the yeti generated more mph speed than the cmxbk. yeti's claim of being able to pull 1 higher gear than the competition may have some merit at least in these conditions. suspension worked well and the small hits and compressions were handled easily. there wasn't anything i noticed, while riding, that i would have concerns about. i would also add that seeing a yeti up close for the first time, it is, in fact, a mechanized work of art; well done.
the cmxbk:
(for the cmxbk ski and track performance, see paragraphs above as this rig was equipped with the yeti ski and original maxtrax track and both performed the same on either machine.)
cmxbk performance: the cmxbk felt very good overall. i expected this as i have had experience with cmx in the past. mark and company take major pride in whatever they produce. i had the chance to jump this kit today over a windlip. the landing was fairly hard and when i went bigger, my ankles hurt a little. in fairness, my ankles are bad and for someone with "good" ankles, this may not be an issue. even though the solid strut may give up some points on big air hits, it was competitive without a doubt under all other conditions today. i did not like how the cover for the belt drive forced my right foot forward. i like to ride with the balls of my feet on the pegs and this was not possible with a size 11 boot. also, it should be noted that toby broke the belt on this kit when he landed after sending it off the windlip. although disappointed, he did say that he had 40 plus hard hours on the kit/belt. now, i have had my share of belt drives and broken belts. shock loading, at least the way i ride, is a frequent occurrence and that makes me nervous about rolling a belt drive. there is no denying the performance gains with a belt drive system, but i have never broken a chain. not saying it can't be done...just sayin'. in fairness to the cmxbk, once the belt broke, we stopped jumping the yeti as well. my gut feeling tells me if you shock load the yeti, it too will break. seeing that they are offering a bigger belt drive system for 2017 could indicate some truth to this.
to wrap things up, i had to get out on my ts kit to see how bad the darting would be on the ts ski. unfortunately, toby and company had to leave so i went solo. when i got to the "meadow of death" my ts ski did not dart at all. i smiled again as i wicked the throttle and started riding how i normally ride. before the yeti faithful throws shade at me, i'm sure the snow had softened up some, but less than 1 hour before, the darting was still noticeable on the yeti ski when we were rolling back to the parking lot. it would have been great to have the yeti and cmxbk there to compare but again, it is what it is. after experiencing this, i'm feeling there is an argument to owning 2 different skis, assuming the yeti is better in powder. i rode everywhere we rode earlier and i gotta say, my 2015 ts setup worked well. i knew performance-wise, it would be as good or maybe better in some areas because of the mods and setup but i was truly surprised that in some of the more "funky" situations, it was rock and roll. good times. i don't think you could go wrong buying any of the big 3 - yeti, cmxbk, or ts. from what i experienced today, and from what i've been reading, no clear front runner; at least for for 2016. try to ride them all but if you can't, buying any of the big 3 won't be a disappointment imho. still hoping to throw a leg over a mototrax (sooner than later) and a camso (?).
thanks again to toby till for the opportunity. if he posts my video "documentary" from today, hopefully i don't come off as too big of a momo....
jeff
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