2015 QuickDrive Failure

[geo]

No they are really nice work and moving the brake to the bottom is a good idea. I really don't know why they put the tensioner inside the belt to actually get less top pulley contact. Maybe they use a wider belt to make up for it?? There are other ways to accomplish more contact such as bigger pulleys too.

CMX uses the belt manufacturers recommendation on tensioning. Less stress on the belt.

If there is slack in a system (like a track or drive belt) at one point there is little or no tension.
You can see this point on a track as it leaves the drivers. Pretty much the same on a belt drive.

The top pulley pulls on the bottom pulley. Tooth tension on the top pulley probably leaves around the 1 oclock position unless you have zero free play.

 

[Teth-Air]

CMX uses the belt manufacturers recommendation on tensioning. Less stress on the belt.

If there is slack in a system (like a track or drive belt) at one point there is little or no tension.
You can see this point on a track as it leaves the drivers. Pretty much the same on a belt drive.

The top pulley pulls on the bottom pulley. Tooth tension on the top pulley probably leaves around the 1 oclock position unless you have zero free play.

Tom at TKI follows Gates specs/recommendations too. They have complete strict design criteria.

 

[Teth-Air]

Update, the Polaris drive shaft tolerance thing may be worse than first suspected, Tom of TKI just told me he just had a customer that has the reverse problem, the shaft is too large to fit the TKI pulley on?? I wonder how they got the stock one on and off?

Also on my buddies machine the pulley WAS rocking back and forth with the bolt torqued to 45 ftlbs.!!!!

All should lift their machines to move the track back and forth with the brake on to see if the pulley is moving on the shaft.

 

[geo]

Update, the Polaris drive shaft tolerance thing may be worse than first suspected, Tom of TKI just told me he just had a customer that has the reverse problem, the shaft is too large to fit the TKI pulley on?? I wonder how they got the stock one on and off?

Also on my buddies machine the pulley WAS rocking back and forth with the bolt torqued to 45 ftlbs.!!!!

All should lift their machines to move the track back and forth with the brake on to see if the pulley is moving on the shaft.

Was that with a stock pulley?? Can't see that happening unless the bolt is bottomed or washer flexing cause you never got to 45 lbs because of preinstalled glue.
That lower hole is a dead end so shim out if a longer bolt is used. It's necessary.
If there is a gap from the end of the shaft to the face of the pulley and you torque it down even a loose spline fit would be tight until the torque is lost.

Not familiar with TKI but C3 provides a thicker washer for the backside too. I think it is important if the pulley is all aluminum (as opposed to the steel insert cast into the stock one). Too small of a lip on the shaft for just aluminum IMO.


Good check though. If you do wobble your almost too late for a retorque.

 

[rmscustom]

CMX uses the belt manufacturers recommendation on tensioning. Less stress on the belt.

If there is slack in a system (like a track or drive belt) at one point there is little or no tension.
You can see this point on a track as it leaves the drivers. Pretty much the same on a belt drive.

The top pulley pulls on the bottom pulley. Tooth tension on the top pulley probably leaves around the 1 oclock position unless you have zero free play.

Exactly what I was thinking with my "Even though it only pulls on one side of the pulley" comment.

 

[Danny Dangles]

I have witnessed 4 of the lower QD bolt failures not to mention at least that many QD belt failures. Some of these were stock QD, some were c3. I love that Polaris went this route, love the idea behind it, I even love the idea of their use of glue and carbon fiber for weight reduction. At the end of the day too many ruined rides, I went with a 2014 leftover RMK Standard ready to bolt the turbo on.

I hope the ARP bolt fixes the bolt issues, then I would be 70% ready to jump on the belt band wagon (I can deal with snapped belts....)

For the record I did snap a bolt head off on my 2012 chaincase, but I was an *** and reused the bolt about 6 times between skid and track swaps.

Not sure if it was mentioned but the circumference of the QD pulley is a lot larger than then that of the sprocket is it not? Also pulley width, IE it sticks out further than the sprocket. Seems like a larger bolt should of been used?

 

[takethebounce]

After seeing these reports and knowing people who have had this happen to them and on more than one occasion, and on all years of sleds I have looked closely at my own sled.

My bottom pulley does rock on the splines slightly. A few thousands, nothing like in the video. I have disassembled the bottom and torqued it, then tried to find reasons why it would break the bolt. Other than the rocking of the pulley I can see no other reason. I quickly saw mention of this concern on the new Axys threads but do not recall what thread it was in. I am not sure if they have cured this issue.

I do not currently have any of the ARP bolts but will be sourcing them. I did swap the lower bolt to a grade 10 which was slightly longer and used a lock washer between a new thick washer and the bolt. The top bolt is a shouldered bolt and that shoulder is stronger (and thicker) than a full threaded bolt. Or at least that is what I was always lead to believe ever since being in school for a machinist 20 years ago.

I added a lock washer as I didn't have any Nord locks at home, but again, I am curious if the bottom bolt, being that it is only a 20mm bolt is backing off slightly, then allowing the pulley to rock as it is no longer torqued, then causing the bolt shear.

I know based upon my buddies experiences our confidence is low with these bolts. Without having a brake on the drive shaft, when the pulley decides to free itself someone could be significantly injured.

 

[sno*jet]

This is not just a belt drive / polaris issue. Lower chain case gear bolts have been breaking for years. I broke the lower bolt on my 06 Apex, the Nytros have had lower bolt breaking issues for years. Eric

quoted for truth.
kinda a freak thing that can happen to either design.
diamond drives didnt stand the test of time either right.
the drive system should just be subbed out from cmx. great design. tensioner inside the belt=less friction and heat.

 

[bigbone]

I was changing the bolts on my 14 and broke the bottom bolt trying to get it loose. You could see there was very little of the bolt holding. I think I could of broke that bolt with a 1/4 ratchet on the socket. I'm glad I checked it.

 

[Reg2view]

Diamond drive's problem wasn't original design, it was execution by ACAT with the lowest cost bidder of the individual parts. Cat licensed the design, but not the manufacture. Is the poo design really problematic, or is it more the execution, including the parts it hangs off of (shaft broaching, e.g.). Simpler isn't always cheaper to do it well.

 

[kevpak24]

Guys that are breaking/shearing these bolts, how are you getting them out?

 

[JMCX]

Guys that are breaking/shearing these bolts, how are you getting them out?

There's lots of tools out there for broken bolt extraction. In this instance, with some heat to loosen the loctite, just about any of them should work. I used reverse twist drill bits.

 

[Danny Dangles]

I didn't have a quality drill bit that would make a dent in the broken stud. So I grabbed a nut with a large enough ID to stick the tip on my mig into, ground it to half its width on the bench grinder. Flipped the sled on its side and welded it to the stud and backed it out with a wrench.

 

[pablosescape]

Found today with zero miles on a 2015 that the bottom bolt was very loose. Was in the process of putting the ARP bolts in. Not good was bound to fail

 

[bigbone]

Guys that are breaking/shearing these bolts, how are you getting them out?

I took a 3/8 flat washer and put over the broke stud and weld a X a-cross the washer and stud. Then weld a nut to the flat washer and turn it out.

 

[wyoguyRMK]

Rusty between head and threads

Hey Guys,

My dad and I have 2014 RMKs. He is an older gentleman and doesn't really ride it to the max and also is an old school mechanic, so he's maintained the sled pretty well. About a week and a half ago, 1 mile from our cabin, the bottom gear feel off of his sled. The head of the bolt was down in the belly pan underneath. It was a real B*tch to get the sheared bolt out.

I've been doing a little hands on research with my sled and talking with him. turns out, his broke right where the head meets the threads and was pretty rusty. I just pulled mine and (first of all it was loose) but it also had rust right were the head meets the threads. I'm thinking this is the main issue. The bolts are just not weather resistant and they get moisture right at that point. I have a turbo'd up nasty sled that gets ran hard and put away wet. I'm so glad I pulled mine.

I had a lot of trouble finding a higher grade bolt (M10x1.25mmx20mm with 20mm flange and 15 mm head 8.8 (metric) grade stock)(bottom bolt) This is not typical of metric sizes.

I actually called ProBolt and the guy was super helpful. I'm getting two sent to me at 12 dollars each that are titanium grade 5(SAE) and diamond coated to prevent rusting. The problem is that they have a 12 mm head with a 17 mm flange. I think this will be ok with the stock washer. (remember your stock washer is coned) cone goes to inside. and torques specks are around 43 ft/lbs.

I really hope this helps everyone and if my "pro bolts" fail I'll let you know.

This is a big issue because this will leave you stranded. So definitely change this bolt.

 

[sledhed]

Hey Guys,

My dad and I have 2014 RMKs. He is an older gentleman and doesn't really ride it to the max and also is an old school mechanic, so he's maintained the sled pretty well. About a week and a half ago, 1 mile from our cabin, the bottom gear feel off of his sled. The head of the bolt was down in the belly pan underneath. It was a real B*tch to get the sheared bolt out.

I've been doing a little hands on research with my sled and talking with him. turns out, his broke right where the head meets the threads and was pretty rusty. I just pulled mine and (first of all it was loose) but it also had rust right were the head meets the threads. I'm thinking this is the main issue. The bolts are just not weather resistant and they get moisture right at that point. I have a turbo'd up nasty sled that gets ran hard and put away wet. I'm so glad I pulled mine.

I had a lot of trouble finding a higher grade bolt (M10x1.25mmx20mm with 20mm flange and 15 mm head 8.8 (metric) grade stock)(bottom bolt) This is not typical of metric sizes.

I actually called ProBolt and the guy was super helpful. I'm getting two sent to me at 12 dollars each that are titanium grade 5(SAE) and diamond coated to prevent rusting. The problem is that they have a 12 mm head with a 17 mm flange. I think this will be ok with the stock washer. (remember your stock washer is coned) cone goes to inside. and torques specks are around 43 ft/lbs.

I really hope this helps everyone and if my "pro bolts" fail I'll let you know.

This is a big issue because this will leave you stranded. So definitely change this bolt.

Appreciate the input, but the ARP bolt solution is all over in this thread (and others), even some (better) dealers know about it and just do it on every sled they touch, you also don't use the cone shaped washer if I recall correctly, but a good read of this thread would have solved your problem pretty easily... for most riders rust isn't the issue (read the thread)...