2015 QuickDrive Failure

[Teth-Air]

"Quote "I've had one whole chaincase failure in 30 years of riding. It was due to me being a stupid high school kid who didn't bother to tighten the chain and it snapped and blew a hole through the case. Chains are stupid reliable and just need the lube changed once in a while and the tension checked every few hundred miles. Pretty easy and damn near bulletproof, plus the ease, reasonable cost and options to change your gearing make chains the better option. If they ever get belts to that same level than great, I'll run one too, but we aren't even close to being there now.[/QUOTE]

I believe the TKI belt drive has surpassed the chain drive. I do sell them o I am biased, but if I did not think so highly of them I wouldn't run them.

 

[AKrider]

I just checked it out. $700 for belt drive. Wow!

The tensioner for the stock system looks like a good improvement.

 

[rmscustom]

I've had one whole chaincase failure in 30 years of riding. It was due to me being a stupid high school kid who didn't bother to tighten the chain and it snapped and blew a hole through the case. Chains are stupid reliable and just need the lube changed once in a while and the tension checked every few hundred miles. Pretty easy and damn near bulletproof, plus the ease, reasonable cost and options to change your gearing make chains the better option. If they ever get belts to that same level than great, I'll run one too, but we aren't even close to being there now.

The reasons I've seen chain cases fail is also lack of maintenance. The reason I've also seen belt drives fail is also lack of maintenance/preventative measures not taken IMO. Maybe mine runs cooler and is problem free because of the Geo/Loudhandle mod? Idk, I'm not that smart.
Good thing PI gives us options.
Don't like the belt drive. Get a standard.
Ride too many trails and have cooling issues. Get a standard.
Afraid your motor is gonna blow. Get another brand cause none of them go down. lol

 

[Teth-Air]

I just checked it out. $700 for belt drive. Wow!

The tensioner for the stock system looks like a good improvement.

Your missing the point, the tensioner is only good if the belt is long enough to wrap the top pulley so it contacts 3/4 of it rather than 1/3 like the stock set up.

Also to gear down saves drive belts and at a couple hundred dollars each, the aftermarket kits allow this.

 

[phatty]

Brand new 2015 chaincase for sale. Includes jackshaft, brake rotor, chain, gears and case. PM if interested.

 

[rmscustom]

Your missing the point, the tensioner is only good if the belt is long enough to wrap the top pulley so it contacts 3/4 of it rather than 1/3 like the stock set up.

Also to gear down saves drive belts and at a couple hundred dollars each, the aftermarket kits allow this.

Even though it only pulls on one side of the pulley? Is my thinking correct there?

 

[Timberdoodle218]

So Polaris shouldn't have done quickdrive? what else shouldn't they do? Hope the guys who dis on this aren't the same ones who want a sled that's 5# lighter and has 5 more hp......every model year.

 

[JMCX]

Add me to the failed bolt on a 15 group. Unfortunately it broke three mountain ranges back near the end of the day. I have Kurts gear down kit. The pulley moved out and stripped half the splines. We did some Macguyvering and got up one hill but it failed again. Luckily I had the original setup back at the truck and some of the guys went and got it. No more locktite on these bolts for me. If we could have got the broken piece out on the hill things would have gone a lot easier. Had to use a piece of tree, with a screw from the belly pan, wired into the gear to act as a spacer against the battery tray to avoid a chopper ride. I'm worried the splines are a little tapered now.

My theory is the poor fit of the splines allows the pulley to wobble slightly under high load, flexing the bolt head in a circular motion, leading to fatigue failure. The shaft spline should be centred axially with the belt area to remove the cantilever.

 

[geo]

I think you are correct. It doesn't take much movement on the other end of the drive shaft to change this alignment between shafts. A small difference in the middle is more out to the edge of the pulley, every revolution.
Hard part is figuring out how to measure this.

I did this to my '13. I think mine may have been worse than most because I had a smoking hot top pulley every ride. Since alignment It's amazing for temp.
My conversion is a C3. I used to need a minimum of 3/8th's free play in the shop to be a tight 3/16ths in the field (recommended).
Since alignment, I now set for a tight 1/4" in the shop and that leaves me with a loose 3/16ths in the field.

I believe the lack of pulley expansion shows true running pulleys and I think my grade 10.9 bolts will live a stress free life.

 

[Teth-Air]

Even though it only pulls on one side of the pulley? Is my thinking correct there?

There are way more teeth in contact with the top pulley on the TKI or C3 systems. This is a huge benefit as it spreads the forces over more teeth and reduces the chance of failure or skipping.

 

[rmscustom]

There are way more teeth in contact with the top pulley on the TKI or C3 systems. This is a huge benefit as it spreads the forces over more teeth and reduces the chance of failure or skipping.

CMX must be junk then since they run a inside tensioner and take teeth away from contact...

 

[rmscustom]

Add me to the failed bolt on a 15 group. Unfortunately it broke three mountain ranges back near the end of the day. I have Kurts gear down kit. The pulley moved out and stripped half the splines. We did some Macguyvering and got up one hill but it failed again. Luckily I had the original setup back at the truck and some of the guys went and got it. No more locktite on these bolts for me. If we could have got the broken piece out on the hill things would have gone a lot easier. Had to use a piece of tree, with a screw from the belly pan, wired into the gear to act as a spacer against the battery tray to avoid a chopper ride. I'm worried the splines are a little tapered now.

My theory is the poor fit of the splines allows the pulley to wobble slightly under high load, flexing the bolt head in a circular motion, leading to fatigue failure. The shaft spline should be centred axially with the belt area to remove the cantilever.

Interesting... I have a assault trackshaft on mine and I just about have to hammer the bottom pulley on the splines.

 

[JMCX]

Here's a little vid of how loose the gear fits the splines. It's the same if I put it on the top shaft (same spline). The only thing keeping the gear square and true is the pressure of the bolt holding it tight against the shoulder of the shaft. My 13 is the same. It also broke the lower bolt before the recall.

 

[High Voltage]

Just go to the hardware store and buy the following:

2014+ Bottom Bolt - M10x1.25x20 grade 10.9

2014+ Top Bolt - M10x1.25x40 grade 10.9

Real easy and cheaper.

My 2014 had - M10x1.25x20 on the top and bottom. Just saying

 

[Lomark]

Just installed the TKI 2.33 kit on my sled and also noticed there was quite a bit of slop in the splines.
2015 Pro with 20 miles on it. Pretty sad huh, need lot's of snow here!

 

[LoudHandle]

Here's a little vid of how loose the gear fits the splines. It's the same if I put it on the top shaft (same spline). The only thing keeping the gear square and true is the pressure of the bolt holding it tight against the shoulder of the shaft. My 13 is the same. It also broke the lower bolt before the recall.

That fit is ridiculous; I have a bunch of '13 take offs that will fix that for you. You pay postage and their yours. Sh!t that out of spec should never make it to out of the vendors door much less out the factory door as an assembled snowmobile. The clown on that assembly stage must have been stoned or hung over to not stop production and nip that in the bud. Is it any wonder the bolts are failing like candy canes.

 

[Reg2view]

wow on that vid.

Must be made by the 800 piston vendor.

 

[Teth-Air]

CMX must be junk then since they run a inside tensioner and take teeth away from contact...

No they are really nice work and moving the brake to the bottom is a good idea. I really don't know why they put the tensioner inside the belt to actually get less top pulley contact. Maybe they use a wider belt to make up for it?? There are other ways to accomplish more contact such as bigger pulleys too.

 

[Teth-Air]

Just installed the TKI 2.33 kit on my sled and also noticed there was quite a bit of slop in the splines.
2015 Pro with 20 miles on it. Pretty sad huh, need lot's of snow here!

I had a friend complaining that his TKI bottom pulley was rocking on the drive shaft splines. We took it off and tried a new pulley, Same thing. So then we tried his stock QD pulley and it too rocked just as much or more. It must be the shaft worn or out of tolerances. My sled don't have this wobble.

Below is a link to the video of it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ksuoqouvxi239g/wobble.MOV?dl=0

 

[geo]

I still have stock '13 shafts. My C3 bottom pulley required I use the bolt and washer to get it to seat the first time. I still need a couple of small tire irons to take it off but it will tap into place now.
I don't think my stockers were as loose as that vid but they were loose enough that I didn't need any special tools to R&R the belt.

The fit on the splines is better when tight but it is still the torque applied to the shoulder of the shaft that holds the assy together. If you needed a 2 ton press to assemble you would still need a torque applied (or welding) to keep it assembled.
How long to fail without torque on a pressed assy would be determined by how many times unnecessary lateral forces are applied however strong or weak they may be.

The top bolt does more work but the diameter of the pulley is less so unnecessary lateral forces are less. Lost torque up there shows a different failure. The top bolt holds the pulley, disc and inner bearing race tight to the shoulder of the shaft. When torque is lost on this assy usually the inner bearing race spins and ruins the shaft.
IMO the reason some people have a failure and others don't is because some sleds have more unnecessary lateral forces than others. A production thing.

C3 in their instructions recommends checking the torque on both pulleys after the first and second rides, then 500 miles then every 1000 miles. They didn't need to tell me that because of what I found when stock in '13. I think my sled was maybe a worse case scenario for unnecessary lateral forces but I finished 1700 miles with zero failures.
I'm a "check the nuts and bolts" guy. Sometimes hey take a snug and stay there, sometimes twice. I figured the 4th time with the pulley bolts meant I needed more torque or something. They had already stretched, (to check this, take a good bolt and a suspect bolt, put then thread to thread and look up at a light. If the threads don't match throw the bad one away) and it wasn't from poor calibration on my Snap On torque wrench.

Getting rid of unnecessary lateral forces was a quest, but keeping the torque was easy.
Only need to go up one grade in bolt, maybe 2 or 3 grades in supplier and IMO a better bell washer than stock.
I use a Doo XM secondary clutch washer. It's 2 or 3 times as thick and has held it's shape for many torques. At 45 ft lbs it is not flat yet. I use 60 ft ibs which is the high end of allowable torque for the upgraded bolt I use according to the manufacturer and that flattens the washer.
Even with that torque my bottom pulley needs one more snug and top pulley two snugs until set after reassembly. In my case I think that is because I am torqueing steel to aluminum.

Hope it helps if you busted one and if your near by give me a PM 'cause I had to buy a bag of these bolts.