2012 cylinder Vs. 2013 Cylinder 800 Pro

[AKSNOWRIDER]

kelsey..it does not give any seperate part #'s for top and bottom peices nor list them seperately..but the 12 case kit is #2204342, case part # is 1204093, the 13 case kit is #2204902 case part# is 1204579... the 12 case substitutes for any and all 2011 and 12 800 cfi motors..the 13 subs only for 13 cfi 800 motors....

 

[Murph]

kelsey..it does not give any seperate part #'s for top and bottom peices nor list them seperately..but the 12 case kit is #2204342, case part # is 1204093, the 13 case kit is #2204902 case part# is 1204579... the 12 case substitutes for any and all 2011 and 12 800 cfi motors..the 13 subs only for 13 cfi 800 motors....

Is this the smoking gun we have all been looking for?

Back in a similar rod ratio thread (before it became an aftermarket manufacturer squabble fest), I seem to remember part of the theory behind the AC 800's ability to get away with a more "extreme" rod ratio had to do with the fact that it was a lay down motor. Will this new offset (or is it a cylinder angle in relation to the case?) relieve the skirt region in field use?...time will tell.

Thanks AK

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

Is this the smoking gun we have all been looking for?

Back in a similar rod ratio thread (before it became an aftermarket manufacturer squabble fest), I seem to remember part of the theory behind the AC 800's ability to get away with a more "extreme" rod ratio had to do with the fact that it was a lay down motor. Will this new offset (or is it a cylinder angle in relation to the case?) relieve the skirt region in field use?...time will tell.

Thanks AK

as of right now..I am not sure they have moved the cylinder centerline compared to the crank center line..it is speculation on my behalf that this maybe where they came up with the "offset" moniker on the new cylinder...until someone with very high quality equipment measures some things..we will not know..but it is a possibility....

 

[RKT]

Here is what we know, for sure, the cylinder has no offset with respect the the centerline. Also, the upper case ,base gasket area, has no offset with respect to the 2012 or 2011..

So, Unless the crank is positioned "offset" in the cases (meaning different upper and lower cases lined off center) then this new engine has no offset.

That is why I was hoping there was a lower case part number ..this would tell us if they changed it..but since they are only sold as a kit.. we will have to wait until somebody splits the case and compares.
If I were to bet, I would bet that the new engine has a thicker intake skirt and that is where it end in terms of cylinder/case positioning.. The upper case changes appear to be no more than simple "offsetting" the machining to allow for the thicker skirt. and the "offset" of the machining happens to be the thickness difference of the new cylinder.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

I suspect much of the same kelsey..hopefully no one has one apart anytime soon(meaning they stay toeather vrs. blowing up)..thanks for sharing what you found on the cylinder by the way...useful info ...

 

[diamonddave]

X3....at this point, I'm almost wondering if the definition of the word "offset" is translation in Polaris language for "thicker skirt" LOL...

But anything is possible...

Another thing to consider with regard to cylinder skirt breakage would be the possibility of excessive clearance of the cylinder skirt to the Lower case fitment due to machining differences. Member 2XM3 discovered this a couple seasons ago on the CFI-4 and was the first to post about it. I measured a 2010 last season that had 0.009" of clearance between the cyl skirt and lower case.

The support of the skirt by the lower case is/has been my concern when using a shim plate in some of the aftermarket kits even though there doesn't seem to be any evidence at this point that it is actually an issue.

I haven't seen an 800R Rotax cylinder (particularly the skirt) for a while, and I believe Kelsey has said they are thinner than the Poo. Is the height of the Doo cylinder (skirt) any taller than the Poo 800???

 

[rocket]

X3....at this point, I'm almost wondering if the definition of the word "offset" is translation in Polaris language for "thicker skirt" LOL...

But anything is possible...

Another thing to consider with regard to cylinder skirt breakage would be the possibility of excessive clearance of the cylinder skirt to the Lower case fitment due to machining differences. Member 2XM3 discovered this a couple seasons ago on the CFI-4 and was the first to post about it. I measured a 2010 last season that had 0.009" of clearance between the cyl skirt and lower case.

The support of the skirt by the lower case is/has been my concern when using a shim plate in some of the aftermarket kits even though there doesn't seem to be any evidence at this point that it is actually an issue.

I haven't seen an 800R Rotax cylinder (particularly the skirt) for a while, and I believe Kelsey has said they are thinner than the Poo. Is the height of the Doo cylinder any taller than the Poo 800???

I saw the discussion, but am not convinced that clearance presents any sort of problem. In fact, I believe clearance is NECESSARY, otherwise, you're going to get the case pushing the cylinder skirts around as parts expand and contract. I don't believe you can fit the case tightly enough to the cylinder skirts to provide any real support without creating other problems. The only thing that can be done is something like Indydan is doing with alterations to the cylinder itself. Still, if the pistons aren't fit properly to the bores, even reinforcement may not be enough to save the motor long-term. Aluminum has a finite fatigue life and if the piston is clanking around in the bore, something will give out eventually.

 

[Norway]

Stubborn????

Al right, I'll give it to you up front: I'm stubborn!!!! Ok? LOL.

Jast wanted to get that out of the way. Having said that, there are OTHER stubborn people in this thread. No names...

The thread is cylinder differences, agreed. But with all the derailing traincrash-look-a-like threads we get on this site, are you really whining about gman bringing up a potentially offset case?? New numbers from 12 to 13 with the text "offset" added to it!?

If true it would be the most serious change to date on the CFI 800 (2 and 4) to lessen piston side-load on the power stroke, no?


Tough crowd to please.

 

[m8magicandmystery]

willikers...why not ask polaris...lol..

 

[knifedge]

--So, bottom line is, as far as we now know, Pro 800 motor is virtually unchanged except for slight thickening of intake skirts.

--Pro 800 motor will most likely continue to have all pre-existing issues

--To fix issues:
-buy all the warranty you can afford
-or-
-turn up oil pump
-replace pistons (and head)

 

[indydan]

2012/2013

FYI - I have a 2012 motor in the shop and it has a 2013 cylinder on it.

Dan

 

[Steelman]

FYI - I have a 2012 motor in the shop and it has a 2013 cylinder on it.

Dan

So..are you saying no change only skirt thickness

 

[WesG]

2013 cylinders

Dan after looking at a 2013 cylinder does the new cylinder require your skirt mods? Have you had a chance to mic a few to determine consistancy top to bottom?

Wes

 

[geo]

Maybe the same as his skirt changes.

 

[realbass]

is i understood i can use 12 cyl on 13 poo
...or can't ?

 

[TRS]

I would think Polaris had to offset the flycut, on the intake side of the case, for the thicker skirt?

 

[paulharris]

any new info on engine/cylinder changes for 13?