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2012 Assault 800 BD turbo - Det Help

Kenny B

Active member
Lifetime Membership
Hey guys, I haven't posted on Snowest before and I have used the search button to no avail. Here is a basic run down on my setup.

800 Assault - BD Intercooled, 2860 3d box with External EBC
I have a 1000 miles on it boosted at 6.2 psi, and this year I backed it down with the adjustable wastegate to 5.2#'s. I run at 0-1000 ft, 3 degree timing module, Cold air intake,

I had to rich'n the mixture up from a 12.6 to 11.3 at WOT when I installed BD's CAI pipe. I mix my fuel 2 gallons of Sonoco Maximal 116 to a tank of fuel. I have hit DET intermittently over the last 1000 or so miles. but nothing consistent, attributed to shady 91 octane fuel- suspected of being regular(81)... When I pulled the Reeds out I noticed a small chip in one of the reeds, ordered Boyseen turbo pedals. So on to Power valves, nothing to note, except when I looked in at the piston crown there was a serious chunk missing.....

Removed motor, and stripped to find both pistons missing parts of the ring lands between the upper and lower rings, no cylinder wall damage or head damage worth noting... Four piston pieces not acounted for... Cleaned and scrapped pipe, nothing, inspected turbo, no apparent broken fins, no shaft play or scrapping.... mystery as to where they have disappeared to... Crank and rods look fine, no apparent rub marks where something had bounced around...

So I have to new slugs on the way, new base gaskets, etc... Which leads me to my next question, I'm assuming detentation is my killer, I have been doing everything in my power to keep Det to a minimum, but I can't seem to completely get rid of it.

I'm considering taking 20thou out of my Quench on the head, lower compression, opinions?

Next, could I be over octaning the motor, my solution to Det up until this point has been to throw more race gas at it. We have a large moisture content in the air here in Newfoundland, could this adversely affect my ability to control Det, I would think having a high moisture content would cause the air to be more be resistant to det.

Rebuilding my motor tomorrow, drawing at staws.....

Ken
 
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Well too much octane isnt going to cause any damage just not as much hp. Have any pictures of the pistons?
 
Well too much octane isnt going to cause any damage just not as much hp. Have any pictures of the pistons?

Hey Phil, thanks for the response. I have a few pics I just put on photo bucket.
http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx78/rhdhybrid/file-8.jpg
http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx78/rhdhybrid/file-7.jpg
http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx78/rhdhybrid/file-6.jpg
http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx78/rhdhybrid/file-5.jpg
http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx78/rhdhybrid/file-4.jpg

The second last pic is the one where a piece of ring danced around and stuck into the piston.
 
A friend of mine has mentioned that my killer is high frequency Det, according to him, this is a problem with all 2-stoke turbo sleds, his recommendation was to cut the combustion chamber bowl to lower compression, leaving the quench area along to squeeze the air to the middle of the chamber.

Thoughts?

My goal is to make a totally reliable sled, and so far it has been, but by the look of some of the missing area's of piston, they have been gone for awhile, so I'm a lucky boy.... sort of... LOL
 
Ya ur lucky

This is what mine looked lik
u4ybyru5.jpg
ana7amev.jpg
 
Hey man, that is definitely a raw deal... I guess I'm not the only one with troubles.... Was yours a lean burn or DET? What did you do to prevent future failure?
 
Well
Mine was heat and det and not a bd kit
Improper tuneing and fuel
I threw the pics up to show that anything over 180 is unsafe on a turbo pro IMO
 
ha ha ha ha ha, I had a client come into the shop with a new 800 rmk, he asked me what temps I ran my sled at? I told him 113 powder - 127-34ish on trail.... He told me the dealer here in my town, who I don't deal with.... told him 180 is ok, light comes on at 205...... LOL. Crazy wha.... LOL. I hit 150ish once when I ran out of snow in the spring.

So heres where I'm at with the motor, Head is having the combustion chambers messaged alittle. Doubling the base gaskets. I was going to triple them but it might affect the port timing to much at that point. She'd be to close to the edge.....

Any thoughts on this.
 
Buy Keseys head at stock ratio. Better cooling and the chamber in the head is smaller and taller like Kenny B suggested.
 
Hey Frisco, where might I find this Kaseys head? I'm full confident that it is heat/compression problem I'm into. I would like to check out the head, could be the answer I'm hunting for
 
Good choice. Oem pistons are no bueno and if you hit det they are toast being cast. With forged pistons, they will hold up better and now you have a piston that fits. Run more octance, I like 100ll avgas. 50 50 avgas to 91 and you will be safe and be more consistant octance.
 
Judging by your pics it looks to be running a tad lean. You have a little bit of wash on the broken piston but i see none on the other. Also is that a melted part on top of the non broken piston or something just sitting on it?
 
Hey Guy's, I have taken all you guys have to say and tried the following, increased my octane to rating of 105, this is 5.3 gallons of 116 to 6 @87oct, I calculated it at 87 because I have a sneaky suspicious I'm not getting 91 on a good day.

I went back with stock pistons as that is all I had to go with in the time frame I needed them(had to run a tour). the head had a small cut, 10 thou following the stock chamber profile(due to time constants). Installed Boyesen Turbo Reeds.

I have gone a full ten points over the stock BD numbers in all rpm above and including 6200, mid and high load settings. I increased my extra low throttle by 5 points to make my cruise in the 13.5 range. WOT is a 11.3 till it bogs.

Here is the first issue, the sled bogged and backfired, which pooched the y'pipe to pipe donut. Guessing this is from fuel ignition in pipe. Plug color seems to be fine at WOT, thou I pulled a set of BR10's out of it the other day that was yellowish green in colour, but I was running a 80-20 Race gas mixture. Attributed to lead in the race gas.

So thou the sled runs ok, it has been getting me throu my tours, but it isn't where it could be, I'm pulling 10-76 weights with BD clutching that came with the kit, it used to over rev abit last year, BD said to through weight at it, so I did, it helped, but I just can't seem to get the sled to where it used to be last year.

I have been reading about the proper AFR's on a 2 stoke at WOT- some say 12.5 is ok.... This is high as my background is turbo cars, Boondocker also likes it in this region as with stock numbers it is in the ball park, but it'll DET and shut down. My compression is fine, I run Dominator Oil.

I run at 0-1000 feet, boondocker adj wastegate, 5.2 spike, 4.5 consistent. High moisture content in air.

So I guess here is the question, has anyone ever twisted a crank out of phase, Common issue?

Has anyone had a consistent or semi consistent backfire after bog, this happened to me twice this week. Guessing it is fuel ignition in pipe due to over fuelling, but if I lean it DETs.

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to give the most accurate info. No one to ask in Newfoundland, I'm the only one with a kit here.....
 
LOL, I got there page open in another tab.... :) Seems to be the way, but I was reading on Dynotech about this Pinnacle EFI, providing almost instantaneous auto tuning.... I emailed the contact that Dynotech provided. But Vipec is definitely the way to go now for engine management. Going to have to place a call to Vipec... :)
 
I can never understand why guys put turbos on and wanna run pump gas at 6-8lbs? Makes no sense to me. Run straight c12 and mix a bit of extra oil in with it and then ride it at 10-14lbs like they should be ridden?Had you been running race gas that runs cooler, this would never have happened. Never cheap out on fuel.
 
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