2009-2011 Diamond Drive Bearing Failure

[skidooboy]

question and observation...

question, can you put the sled on its right side and remove the DD cover for this service without losing any dd fluid? why i ask is, my two sleds i am changing the bearings in, are brand new zero miles. was hoping not to have to drain the fluid and replace new unhurt fluid. (yeah i know i am cheap). give the laziest man the hardest job he'll find the easiest way to do it!

*****************************************************************

observation, bearings fail from lack of what? answer.... LUBRICANT.

these are sealed bearings we are talking about (the old narrow one, and the new wider one). i am guessing they come from the factory (wherever they are manufactured) with very little high quality grease in them. probably the reason they failed in the first place.

i am guessing you can carefully remove the seals on the bearing, add grease to both sides, work it into the rollers and races, and it will last alot longer than just throwing a new (wider) bearing in, and hoping for the best.

i have had to do this with drive line bearings for years, on yamaha products. when i replace the dd bearing with the wider bearing i will be adding more grease there as well. just my .02 ski

 

[snowcatter]

Bearings also fail when they are too small for the job they are doing, causing them to overheat.

 

[Steve D]

They got a recall going for a nut that needed to be turned a quarter turn for a problem nobody heard about, they should really be looking at doing a recall on this.

 

[tcpeterson]

I agree there should be a recall on this item, but every dealer i've talked to hasn't even heard of the problem. Some if this could be due to everyone just taking care of themselves as well as it's not happening to very many people.

Yes, i did read the whole thing and i know some people are finding bad bearings for whatever reason. Personally i checked mine with over 1000 miles on it and everything looks brand new.

My mechanic/friend told me that he feels the biggest reason for these failures is that a lot of people don't change their oil till the fall before the season starts if at all (myself included until now). Throughout the season with constantly changing temperatures inside the case we get condenstation inside the case and when they sit all summer with a film of water on top of the oil we can get the water into the bearings. Then if we just pull the plug and fill with new oil the damage has already been done.

Not saying that the sealed bearings arn't failing! Bearings do that. But there could be other reasons besides it being to small.

 

[Steve D]

Unless you go in, recall notice in hand, every dealer will say "it's the first I've heard of it."

 

[RickM]

tcpeterson

your mechanic friend may be right on some things, but My 2009 M8 was brand new and never hit the snow until January 1st 2009, the bearing had failed in april 2009, There was no condensation, or lack of fluid in the case. The bearing cage siezed up, started to wad up and pushed out the side seals of the bearing. The bearing could not handle the load and failed.

Granted with over 12000 people reading this post, and about 250 replies, you know Arctic Cat is aware of the problem. I just chose to fix it my self rather than drive over 300 miles round trip to my dealer for a $20.00 fix. I will check the new wide bearing several time this season just to feel safe. RickM

 

[tcpeterson]

Well sounds like yours was truly a problem. And I wasn't trying to discredit your thread. It made me tear mine apart to check it. I was just throwing out other ideas. And no I don't blame you for just fixing it yourself. I would have done the same.

Steve-D Both of the dealers i talked to i have a personal relationship with, if they knew of something they wouldn't hide if from me. Arctic Cat hiding if from the dealers on the other hand is a possibility.

Once again not trying to start a debate just thought i would pass on some information

 

[tlm700]

why a double row sealed

I sell bearings for a living and mine came apart at 500 miles upon inspection there were no problems relating to moisture, the bearing cage just plain failed, possible due to more thrust than a single row bearing is rated to handle, or possibly due to the fact that the bearing in my diamond drive was of taiwanese origin. Buy putting the 5203-2rs (good quality brand) in you are greatly increasing the load and thrust capabilities. I feel the sealed bearing is required to "hold oil in the bearing" at the speeds it turns, rubber sealed bearings are usually not recomended for over 800 RPM, but in this case the higher RPM will "burn" the lip and allow a small space for oil to enter, thus allowing it to fling around inside and retain some lubricating abilities,whereas a open bearing would just fling out the oil at higher RPM's and cause the bearing to possibly run dry. hope this helps everyone understand,but these are just my opinions!!!

 

[skidooboy]

learned something doing two of these sleds in two days. did mine yesterday pulled out a tiawan bearing with red lip seals. did the wife's today pulled out a china bearing with black lip seals. maybe a bad batch of bearings one way or another causing some to fail and others to not.

i believe the double row to be the better way to go, i am really just making observations on what i am seeing... to help trouble shoot and pin point the end problem.

IF someone from a particular manufacturer happened to be viewing this.

ski

 

[oldcrow]

Well i can't beleive that AC has not done anything about this. I am finally going to get a chance to pull the sled out next week on Tgiving break. She has 1000 miles and i'm afraid of what i'm going to find in the case after reading all of these posts.

Why would they if everone is taking care of the problem themselves.
If everone brought in blown up Diamond Drives then they would have to do something about it

 

[tcpeterson]

Why would they if everone is taking care of the problem themselves.
If everone brought in blown up Diamond Drives then they would have to do something about it

I agree, made the same comment in another post

 

[ripsass]

My toasted one was chinese with orange seals... I'll post pics tonight.

 

[Good Ole Boy]

I was going to pick up a brand new 09 M8 SnoPro tomorrow.
Im glad i seen this Info.
Not sure if i want to tare open a brand new sled.
To bad Arctic Cat wouldn't have this as a recall

 

[ripsass]

OK mine was Taiwanese after all. But toast at 470 miles none the less.

 

[catmechanic]

i just bought an 07 M8 carrover last month. just came out of the crate. i am beginning to wonder about the whole moisture thing. i really dislike the idea of changing the fluid on something with less than one mile though.

also, does anybody know if BDX has addressed this issue? since they are the creator, perhaps they have a solution. sorry, i didn't have time to read 250 posts, so i thought i would just ask.

from what i have quickly gathered, to get the wider bearing in there, you have to machine the shaft?

 

[montanasledder]

Mine went right on on my 09 m8,

 

[RickM]

ripsass---- catmechanic

ripsass, your bearing failure looks exactly like mine did, cage wads up side seal comes out. trashy bearing i think, RickM

cat mechanic, no you do not have to machine shaft on an 09 M8, just remove the single row bearing and remove the spacer behind the bearing, double row is the same width as the single/spacer. easy job to do, especially if your a "catmechanic" ha ha RickM.

 

[MR MOOSE]

Took mine to my local dealer last week and had mine changed, mine was iffy after 744 miles. I paid for it, not a big deal for the peace of mind in my opinion. They called me a few days later and said that it was gonna be covered under warranty which I wasnt expecting and credited my account. I was once again impressed with them and would like to think all the cat dealers would take customer service to this level, but wouldnt count on it. Thanks All Seasons Motorsports! Forgot to mention that they put in the wide bearing as well, not just the narrow POS again.

 

[BD-Xtreme]

Clear the confusion of DD bearing failure

First, I really appreciate all the input and concerns that have been brought up on this post. I respect all opinions and know that everyone is trying to get information out to help other riders with the same machines. So, after reading the 250+ replies and seeing that there has been alot of confusion I need to clear up and explain the conclusions that we have found after 10 months of analyses of the 09 and 10 diamond drive units that are found on the Arctic Cat Crossfire and M snowmobiles.
The current generation (09-10) Diamond Drive is acually a converted ( mechanical reverse) Diamond Drive that was used on the 07 and 08 sleds. This unit was not designed by BDX and was never manufactured by BDX. We only designed and manufactured the 04-06 style and the current direct relacement, Diamond Lite Drive, for the 07-10 Crossfire and M's. Our gear boxes use our exclusive one piece forged transfer gears and windowed openings to provide unequaled lubrication to the bearings in the gear box. We have always used the double row angular contact 5203 pocket bearing in our units because of the exact problems that are now occurring on the single row 6203 bearing that is being used on the 09-10 OEM units. The reason the 5203 double row angular contact bearing was first chosen was it's capabilities of high side thrust loads and excellent radial load capabilities.
We have analyzed that there is too much variation in the width of the welded chassis (some chassis are too narrow thereby putting excessive outward side loads on the gear box). That is why some units are failing and others not. This also explains why if you are installing the new wider 5203 bearing with the case still installed in the sled and the cover is not seating properly (gap between cover and case unless excessive force is used). If you take the Diamond Drive unit out and install the cover, it will go on properly. We have compensated for this issue when you use our Diamond Lite Drive by a different trackshaft which is the correct length to take the outward side load from the small 6203/5203 bearing and apply the inward side load to the very large 50BG ring gear bearing and the double bearing in the brake caliper mount. You can relieve some of the pressure causing the high side load by removing the shield washer from the trackshaft located between the brake caliper bearing and the trackshaft. I applaud the ingenuity that many of you have done, including machining the area behind the 5203 bearing to make the cover go on, but it does create a gear misalignment between the transfer gear and the planetary gears thereby weakening the total surface of the gear tooth. The correct way would be to take off approximately .050" from either end of the trackshaft.
The 6203 bearing that is currently being used on the Diamond Drive is not capable of the loads that are present in the Crossfire and M chassis. We strongly recommend that any owner of a 09-10 M or Crossfire update the 6203 bearing to a 5203 double row angular bearing. The bearing is available for $15.95 from BDX. Also to remove .050" from the trackshaft if your cover does not seat properly when the main case is fastened to the chassis.
For those of you with the 07 and 08 mechanical reverse Diamond Drives, the only way to update to the 5203 bearing is to machine .205" off from the transfer gear bearing stop area. If you do not have a machine shop available we will supply the bearing and machine the shaft for $25.00. Also if anyone has any other questions or reccomendations please call us @507-824-9966 or email us @ Jeff@bd-xtreme.com
Thanks again for the good work all of you are doing to make our sport enjoyable and dependable.
BDX

 

[silverram323]

Also to remove .050" from the trackshaft if your cover does not seat properly when the main case is fastened to the chassis.

Can you provide us with a picture showing exactly where you are removing the .050'' from. I know my cover was close but not right, i just equally snugged up the bolts. I plan on taking out the DD unit when it gets back from the dealer. (new voltage regulator)

I also send you a PM