2 different fixes for the same problem.

[Butta]

Agreed, R44! But the fact that we are being asked to run our sleds at a much higher temperature than the designing engineers planned is what boggles me. PROVE to me that the added heat (heat kills motors) is safer in the long run. PROVE to me that this "cold shot" is the dreaded grim reaper of these motors.....at $300 and all the talk about how awesome this mod is and that it's the "fix" provide a warranty..........or, charge a more applicable amount for some pieces of plastic.

I'm curious, with the "gizmo" installed, what kind of temps do you see on your sled after riding it and then letting it sit for 10 minutes, then starting it up again? What will happen in the spring when we have ambient temps of 40+, scratchers down, and mash potato snow? I bet we see a lot of these sleds with the "gizmo" overheating........

 

[poledge800]

Agreed, R44! But the fact that we are being asked to run our sleds at a much higher temperature than the designing engineers planned is what boggles me. PROVE to me that the added heat (heat kills motors) is safer in the long run. PROVE to me that this "cold shot" is the dreaded grim reaper of these motors.....at $300 and all the talk about how awesome this mod is and that it's the "fix" provide a warranty..........or, charge a more applicable amount for some pieces of plastic.

I'm curious, with the "gizmo" installed, what kind of temps do you see on your sled after riding it and then letting it sit for 10 minutes, then starting it up again? What will happen in the spring when we have ambient temps of 40+, scratchers down, and mash potato snow? I bet we see a lot of these sleds with the "gizmo" overheating........

th temp you will find are between 140-160 depending on the riding
even in the spring even as you let it sit and then start it the temp will go be up for a second because as your engine sits there it build up heat then as you start it will then drop down about 15 degrees but never goes below 100 which is the recommended temp before going then whereas when the gizmo not installed it will go down into the 80 and you need to start all over again by letting it warm up again
when the rod bearing went out on mine i saw temps of 180 because the bearing was gone and the temp light never came on

 

[poledge800]

Pledge800, I am also aware of the temp. cool downs but this has been going on with the Polaris sleds since they have been using coolant and that is why proper warm ups are needed!

IMO the excessively loose clearance or tolerance piston issues certainly help cause more engine failures when they are shocked cold with coolant and this is the only area where I believe the gizmo may help these 800 cfi's.

if you look back to the edges and the wedges they have a line that mixes the hot water with the cold right in the water pump it runs right out of the head and around the engine into the water pump

 

[Butta]

th temp you will find are between 140-160 depending on the riding
even in the spring even as you let it sit and then start it the temp will go be up for a second because as your engine sits there it build up heat then as you start it will then drop down about 15 degrees but never goes below 100 which is the recommended temp before going then whereas when the gizmo not installed it will go down into the 80 and you need to start all over again by letting it warm up again
when the rod bearing went out on mine i saw temps of 180 because the bearing was gone and the temp light never came on

So what you're saying is that you STILL see a temperature differential after a momentary "engine off" situation? THAT, in itself, proves to me that the "cold shot" is a myth....."cold", is a relative term. I see my sled reach up to 145 or so after a temporary "off" state, then restarted. Shortly thereafter, the temp drops to around 95. A difference of 50 degrees. So you're seeing greater than 160 (I'd love to see EXACTLY what temp you're seeing) and then dropping to around 100 after a restart...that's a difference of more than 60 degrees..................?????

Explain to me how this is a better situation?? I'm lost............

 

[INDEEP]

But the temps always dropped as soon as the rpms came up and you left the trailer. I watched the temps on my Edge drop from 100* to 80* all the time. Temps were measured at the head.

 

[Reg2view]

Okay. So I asked Redneck, on these boards, in Nov last, as they were starting to pitch their product hard, what does Polaris say about your fix? You are a dealer. You've supposedly have had hundreds of these down. And I played nicely.

I was stonewalled. Told, in no uncertain words, "don't know, why don't you ask them". Right. I'm mr. customer, they'll tell me. Now, I've done work for an OEM in their factory, with their engineering and R&D peeps, and suppliers. And I know this - no way, no how, the Gizmo fix hasn't been discussed, at great length, and almost assuredly test data exchanged, with engineering. Not saying BS on the whole idea, but I know everything I want to about who I'd be dealing with. If you treat me like this as a prospect, I know where my place in line is as a customer.

 

[skitter]

Rebuilt my engine this last Friday and the piston clearance to the cylinder wall was only .005 thousands and that meaurement was taken at the bottom of the cylinder skirt and the piston skirt. I don't consider this an excess tolerance the pistons in these sleds are cast not forged like wiseco's and I have noticed a weight difference compared to the big block pistons. Now combine those ideas with the fact that after the sled has been ran for a while, your up around 130 degrees you shut your motor down sit for 10-20 minutes fire up and grab a handful of throttle. Heat soaked coolanat leaves the cylinders and goes directly to the coolers full of colder coolant by as much as 60 or more degree difference. You now have the bottom portion of the cylinder walls contracting around a fully expanded piston, which being heavier than some of the older model pistons, doesn't get the metal to coolant contact like the cylinder wall does therefore they don't contract as quickly. In order for these companies to get higher horsepower motors they have gone to tighter tolerances than what we're used to seeing on other motors and look at the coolant flow design compared to even the edge models. These newer sleds have thinner material in the tunnels and coolers, they have fewer coolers, and high flow water pumps. Take your cylinders off and look at where the water enters the crank case and where it is directed (bottom edge of the cylinders). I always let my sled warm up first thing in the morning before I even run it off the trailer, but I've been quilty of not letting it warm up on the hill after a break possibly 4 or 5 times a day and I truly believe the cold shot of coolant is what took out my mag side piston. I installed the gizmo, paid closer attention to my temps 130-140 throughout the day. Took several 10 minute breaks and temp would go from 135-140 all the way down to 105 within 10-15 seconds at idle.

 

[Butta]

Rebuilt my engine this last Friday and the piston clearance to the cylinder wall was only .005 thousands and that meaurement was taken at the bottom of the cylinder skirt and the piston skirt. I don't consider this an excess tolerance the pistons in these sleds are cast not forged like wiseco's and I have noticed a weight difference compared to the big block pistons. Now combine those ideas with the fact that after the sled has been ran for a while, your up around 130 degrees you shut your motor down sit for 10-20 minutes fire up and grab a handful of throttle. Heat soaked coolanat leaves the cylinders and goes directly to the coolers full of colder coolant by as much as 60 or more degree difference. You now have the bottom portion of the cylinder walls contracting around a fully expanded piston, which being heavier than some of the older model pistons, doesn't get the metal to coolant contact like the cylinder wall does therefore they don't contract as quickly. In order for these companies to get higher horsepower motors they have gone to tighter tolerances than what we're used to seeing on other motors and look at the coolant flow design compared to even the edge models. These newer sleds have thinner material in the tunnels and coolers, they have fewer coolers, and high flow water pumps. Take your cylinders off and look at where the water enters the crank case and where it is directed (bottom edge of the cylinders). I always let my sled warm up first thing in the morning before I even run it off the trailer, but I've been quilty of not letting it warm up on the hill after a break possibly 4 or 5 times a day and I truly believe the cold shot of coolant is what took out my mag side piston. I installed the gizmo, paid closer attention to my temps 130-140 throughout the day. Took several 10 minute breaks and temp would go from 135-140 all the way down to 105 within 10-15 seconds at idle.

Thanks for your informative post! So I still see that you report a large drop in temperature to be experienced even after the "gizmo" is installed....If the normal operating temp for a gizmo'd motor is around 140's, what is it after the motor has been shut off and the engine becomes heat soaked with the stagnant coolant? I bet closer to 160.....

 

[skitter]

Yes, I agree with you, the stagnant coolant in the block area definately could climb to 160 or even more. I do think that the gizmo is doing what it was designed to do and that is stopping cold coolant below a 100 degrees from entering the motor upon restart. When I rode this last weekend upon every restart I would allow my motor to get up to at least 115 before I got on the throttle, checked the pistons when I got home and they looked great, and I will continue to check periodically. Thankfully there are people out there who are trying some R n D to help all of us out wether its the gizmo or the fix, hats off to those guys!!!

 

[R44guy]

WOW 160 heat soak is way too hot and I know just from the last few days here in MN with the outside temps hitting 45-50 degrees out the guys still on the lake with there non rmk iq sleds have had the deto light coming on becuase they are at 150 and are running way to hot until they shut them off and let the coolant cool, would this not be worse with the gizmo then?

 

[Butta]

WOW 160 heat soak is way too hot and I know just from the last few days here in MN with the outside temps hitting 45-50 degrees out the guys still on the lake with there non rmk iq sleds have had the deto light coming on becuase they are at 150 and are running way to hot until they shut them off and let the coolant cool, would this not be worse with the gizmo then?

I think so!! As spring hits, I think those that have installed the gizmo are going to run into overheating problems. Added heat above designed operating temp has never proven to be beneficial. If others have a different experience, please post!

 

[R44guy]

I think so!! As spring hits, I think those that have installed the gizmo are going to run into overheating problems. Added heat above designed operating temp has never proven to be beneficial. If others have a different experience, please post!

Butta, I hope that the gizmo works for all of the purchasers and believers but the excessive heat above the designed operating temp. range like you said makes me very critical of the design.

I would love to hear if anyone who has the gizmo installed has been using there sled on warm days and what the temps have been?

 

[skitter]

Heading out tomorrow just south of Jackson, WY if it's as warm tomorrow as it was today I'll have a good chance to do more checking on the gizmo in the warmer temps.

 

[Outlaw525s]

Have had good luck so far with this gizmo.. the other day i was in powder and sled ran alll day at 146 degrees.. not a once was it higher! other buddoes of mine with same sled without the kit ran temps up into 150 and then 130 to 160.... it jumped all over the place... the thing i like the most about this kit is the consistancecy of the temperature. crossing a lake the other day at 45 degrees out on harpacked snow with the scratches down on the sled with the gizmo was 147 degrees never got higher.. other one with out gizmo was at 168 degreess with scratchers down... it seems like no matter the snow conditions or how hot it is outside the sled always runs the same temp.... just some more info to help u guys out!

 

[milehighassassin]

IMHO 160 is too hot.

 

[skitter]

Update on the gizmo. Ran the sled today, second trip on new top end. Temp was about 25 degrees all day long, not alot of fresh snow maybe 6-10 inches in different spots maybe deeper in around the trees. At one point after leaving the trail sled was at 140 degrees, shut if off for a few to help a buddy with his sled, upon restart noticed the coolant had heat soaked to 160 after restart and within 20-30 seconds it went all the way down to 110 at idle. Riding in what powder we had all day long sled never got over 145 and at times would drop down to 125 and that was feathering the throttle from quarter to full most of the time. Upon every stop 5-10 minutes upon restart I would notice the temp drop down to roughly 105 never below 100, would let it warm back up to roughly 115 before I took off and the sled ran great all day long.

 

[jholer]

Just looking for some updates from the Gizmo users on how hot their sleds are running in the warmer temps. Temps constant at 145 on a 25* powder day seem reasonable, but what happens in the spring at 45* and mashed potato snow. Sure the scratchers will be down, but will these sleds spike to 160-170* after a heat soak from sitting? That seems too hot for these motors to deal with, doesn't it?

 

[Top Notch]

Update on the gizmo. Ran the sled today, second trip on new top end. Temp was about 25 degrees all day long, not alot of fresh snow maybe 6-10 inches in different spots maybe deeper in around the trees. At one point after leaving the trail sled was at 140 degrees, shut if off for a few to help a buddy with his sled, upon restart noticed the coolant had heat soaked to 160 after restart and within 20-30 seconds it went all the way down to 110 at idle. Riding in what powder we had all day long sled never got over 145 and at times would drop down to 125 and that was feathering the throttle from quarter to full most of the time. Upon every stop 5-10 minutes upon restart I would notice the temp drop down to roughly 105 never below 100, would let it warm back up to roughly 115 before I took off and the sled ran great all day long.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I thought the gizmo was supposed to to care of the drastic heat soak temp drops that are noticed here.

 

[Butta]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I thought the gizmo was supposed to to care of the drastic heat soak temp drops that are noticed here.

I think as more people get these on the snow, we'll find out what is "truth" and what is just good "marketing"....

 

[R44guy]

Have had good luck so far with this gizmo.. the other day i was in powder and sled ran alll day at 146 degrees.. not a once was it higher! other buddoes of mine with same sled without the kit ran temps up into 150 and then 130 to 160.... it jumped all over the place... the thing i like the most about this kit is the consistancecy of the temperature. crossing a lake the other day at 45 degrees out on harpacked snow with the scratches down on the sled with the gizmo was 147 degrees never got higher.. other one with out gizmo was at 168 degreess with scratchers down... it seems like no matter the snow conditions or how hot it is outside the sled always runs the same temp.... just some more info to help u guys out!

Outlaw525, Please see the dyno results and notes at the snowest link below post 139 and then the posted dyno results which show that 130 degree's temp. loses hp and tq compared to 115 degrees. I can only imagine what 146 degrees must be losing in power? I like the concept against the cold shot but the excessive heat scares me!

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=245510&page=3