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174" track

Have watched Robbie take his (largely) stock XP places that most would consider only elevation for boosted sleds...

Robbie flat knows his stuff...(fyi, he is the guy that has Avid Drivers, and was largely responsible for the development of the 174x3.0" track)

great guy, knows his stuff, and can ride incredibly well...
 
i had a 162 last year, went to a 144 this year, i just got board , the 162 could go anywhere and there was no challenge at all
 
We have 154, 163, 174 (2.5 and 3") to compare on every ride.....IMO the overall best combination on a stock engine 800 class sled used for boondocking/climbing/deep snow is a 174-2.5".
The 3" paddle definatly has an advantage in the deep, but the overall "fun-factor" does drop as spinning a 75lb track slows acceleration on a 150-160hp sled.


i am confused here, i just got a 162 3" in and it weighted in at 62lbs not 75lbs... did i get a special production one or something?
 
i had a 162 last year, went to a 144 this year, i just got board , the 162 could go anywhere and there was no challenge at all
i would recomend trying some harder terrian.. im currently running a 162x2x16 on a turbo sled, works good, but often find myself wanting more, and after riding with the 174 crowd in the flathead, it makes me want one, they just keep on scooting and im digging for the ground trying to get into the play areas. there are many days that the little baby (feeling) 162 just isnt gonna go where i want to, and im spinning it at 70+mph.
 
i am confused here, i just got a 162 3" in and it weighted in at 62lbs not 75lbs... did i get a special production one or something?

The 162 may weigh 62lbs but they're referring to the 174x3 weighing 75lbs. Fully clipped and not ported.
 
you ride golden? i would love to see how the 174 track is... see more and more people doing this conversion. My only concern is can i still cat walk a sled with a extra 5 inchs on the ground, like you would with a 162.
 
I dont have alot of experience with long track sleds but here is what I have found with many years of snowbike prototypes.

The more track you have the more places you can go in deeper snow and the worse time you have in less snow conditions. Also the slower you go unless you have unlimited horsepower. Take for example a REAL snow cat, the ones they use at ski hills for grooming. Some of those will go ANYWHERE just about and not get stuck. But they are slow as hell and take a lot of power to make the go.

Obviously this was a extreme example but here is the facts,

You want your sled to go more places easier get a longer track. You want your sled to be more nimble and acceleration faster get a shorting track. Its all about finding the balance.

Of course if you are like me you will find the shortest track for the conditions you ride. The reason is I like a challenge and I mean a REAL challenge. Without the challenge sledding or any power sport would be no fun for me.

Its like when I take my bike out in perfect traction day with a brand new knobby on the rear and try to climb a nice technical hill. Its so easy and pointless after the first couple times. Then after the tire is half gone and we get a nice big storm try the hills again. Your lucky to make it half way and maybe by the end of the day you make it all the way.

PS I really hate climbing anyways and boon docking and jumping are much more rewarding for me.
 
Over the years I've read various performance articles, each one promoting the writer's views. I guess that it is my turn, so here goes.

First of all, I live and ride in NW Montana. We usually have about 150 inches of snow at the elevations we ride, moderate hills and lots of trees. It is a lot like Revelstoke and Golden B.C., but with trees. I'm lucky in that I can ride my sled from the house.

The first and most important performance tip that I can give you is have a reliable sled. This is especially important to those of you who are only able to get out 10 or so times a year. Driving for hours to get to the snow and having snowmobile maintenance clinics in the woods is no fun for you or your friends.

There are lots of engine modifications you can get. Some of them work very well and some don't. They all try to get more power out of the stock engine. Whenever you get more power out of an engine there is more wear and shorter life. I have some modified motors and I'm willing to accept the additional maintenance risks, but they are always there. Without going to the expense of a turbo or supercharger, you will have an increase of about 10%.

Total sled weight can be an issue. The less weight an engine has to move the faster the sled will accelerate with the same horsepower/traction. The operational weight of a light sled is around 700 pounds (sled 450, fuel and fluids 100, driver and gear 150-200 pounds). It is relatively easy to lose 15 or 20 pounds on a stock sled. An aftermarket exhaust canister will usually do that with a cost of $400-$500. Total operating weight reduction is less than 3%. Losing additional weight is harder and more expensive, about $100 a pound.

It is my view that having the proper track for your conditions is the smartest and most economical method of improving the performance of your sled. Your track transfers your horsepower to the snow. Efficient interaction between the snow and your track is vital.

First of all I'd like to address a couple of myths about tracks. You need a big motor to move a bigger heavier track, wrong. A track is a big conveyor belt. The engine has to overcome the drag of the clutches, bearings in the chain case and bogey wheels. Bending the track around the drivers and idlers also creates drag. If you go from a 155" track to a 174", the distance from the drivers to the rear idlers is increased about 9 inches. System drag doesn't increase, just because there is more distance between the drivers and rear idlers. Granted, accelerating a heavier track from zero to 50 MPH will take a longer time as compared to a lighter one. If it takes 10 seconds to accelerate a 60 pound 155" track to 50 MPH, it will take about 20% longer to accelerate a 72 pound 174" track, an extra 2 seconds. That delay will hardly be noticeable. What will be notable will be the acceleration the bigger track has over the smaller one.
A sled will accelerate as long as the track can push against the snow and the snow stays put. Except in very hard snow conditions there is always some track slippage. For each snow condition there is a point where the snow starts to give and move rearward, forward momentum is lost and the rear end starts to sink. We want to use horsepower to move a sled forward, not push snow backward.

Obviously, it is the track's paddles that push against the snow, the more square inches of paddles, the better. My personal sled has a 174X16X3" track on it. There are 21 rows of paddles on the ground, not counting the track leaving the drivers to the rails. I have 528 sq. inches of paddles to move my sled. Using the same logic, a 163X16X2.25" track has 358 sq. inches. A 155X15X2.25 has fewer than 300.

I have been told that it takes twice as much horsepower to climb a 30 degree slope at 40 MPH as it does on the flat. We all have machines with enough horse power to go at least 40 up a 30 degree slope. The problem is that there are times that the track can't transfer this power to the snow. Once the snow starts to give, you are going to slow down. When you slow down the track starts to dig a trench. If you are trenching, you're rear suspension sinks. You are now climbing a steeper hill. That steeper hill requires more horse power and the trenching increases until either you turn out or are stuck. In every situation, my 174 track has about half the paddle loading of the 155 and I will have to turn out later, if at all.

To sum this up, if someone came to me and asked me to race an Olympic swimmer, what would I do? I could lose weight, start a fitness program, or buy big swim fins. Which one makes the most sense to you?

This was a great thought provoking post and it got me thinking. For over 20 years I have been buying and building sleds based on weight compared to HP with emphasis on light weight. I have looked at them with power to weight ratios and weight to square inches of track on the snow (flotation). Robbie's post made me realize I had left out a very important parameter, weight and HP to square inches of paddle engaging the snow.

My current ride is a 08 TNT mod with a big bore 629 that weighs 360 lbs with a 16 X 137 x 1.75 track. It had the flotation of about a stock 800R with about 150+ inches of track. It has decent flotation but lacks paddle height. Am now putting on a 15 x 141 X 2.25 with Avid 3" pitch drivers. Just discovered yesterday the 141 only weighs 42.2 lbs (camo says 47 lbs) so I will only have a 1 lb weight penalty. Will be interesting to see how the numbers work out compared to heavy sleds with the big tracks?

What I'm getting at is I think a sleds performance can be fairly well predicted by
HP/weight ratio
weight/square inches of track on snow
weight/square inches of paddle engaging snow
HP/square inches of paddle engaging snow

One other parameter that I can vouch for is what I call the FUN FACTOR
Example, 360 lb sled + 120 HP + flotation equal to a stocker with 150 + inches of track has very high fun factor. A 100 to 150 lb heavier stocker with 150 HP and 150 + inches of track will have a lot lower fun factor (especially when its stuck).

Good Luck
 
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I dont have alot of experience with long track sleds but here is what I have found with many years of snowbike prototypes.

The more track you have the more places you can go in deeper snow and the worse time you have in less snow conditions. Also the slower you go unless you have unlimited horsepower. Take for example a REAL snow cat, the ones they use at ski hills for grooming. Some of those will go ANYWHERE just about and not get stuck. But they are slow as hell and take a lot of power to make the go.

Obviously this was a extreme example but here is the facts,

You want your sled to go more places easier get a longer track. You want your sled to be more nimble and acceleration faster get a shorting track. Its all about finding the balance.

go to the snoweast site there bud
Of course if you are like me you will find the shortest track for the conditions you ride. The reason is I like a challenge and I mean a REAL challenge. Without the challenge sledding or any power sport would be no fun for me.

Its like when I take my bike out in perfect traction day with a brand new knobby on the rear and try to climb a nice technical hill. Its so easy and pointless after the first couple times. Then after the tire is half gone and we get a nice big storm try the hills again. Your lucky to make it half way and maybe by the end of the day you make it all the way.

PS I really hate climbing anyways and boon docking and jumping are much more rewarding for me.
go to the snoweast site there bud
 
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