That thing is awesome! I recently picked up a 174 Pro and I want to do Khaos rails, did you just email them and get them custom built? I wasn't seeing the option on their website.
155 3' Kaos to 174
- Thread starter Uncle si
- Start date
Just an FYI I contacted Iceage last fall about a 174 tipped up rail and they gave me a price to build them custom (First set ever) last fall and the price was $1,500 to $2,000 (Prototyping and possible errors on first runs which I had to pay for) and I was told that it would have to wait till sometime in the future as they were too busy making OEM stuff. I for sure got the feeling they had no interest in something like that. Which I can understand as there is not many people that would be interested.
It doesn't make sense that they're not interested in tipped-up 174 rails. I'd think more people would want them than not: you'd lose a little deep snow performance, but at 174, how much do you need? Seems like a small trade-off for the improvement in turning on the flat. Maybe they barely sell enough 174 rails to even be worth it though.
I have said this before and hoping someone here has the capability and drive to make some kits. What I want is an extra thick hyfax that is about 3/4" thicker at the front and is ground down to a taper to oem thickness at the rear. Include these with a set of oversized front idler wheels to match. The kits could be sold model and track length specific. Now you can have a 174 that rides like a 165 or a 165 that rides like a 155. All using stock rails and at a decent price.
I have never seen that idea before but I like it. Could a person not just take a stock length of hyfax material raw stock and machine down to this idea?
Why does this place always make a person think of new projects...........
And now another question. When Polaris was making the tipped up rails back on the edge sleds does anyone know what that "tipped up" change was? I assume it was an angle change in the rail and the longer the rail the more offset at the end you had?
I just took a look at the 136 skid I have sitting around (yes, even those are tipped up), and it's about the last 8" of the rail - it's tipped around 5 degrees to my eye. I assume the longer the skid, the longer the tipped up segment; I'll take a look at my 144 skid when I get a chance. I think the idea is just to get the idler wheels and tail of the track an inch or two out of the snow on crusty and packed snow. One idea for the really determined DIY type with some welding skills, along the lines of what @Teth-Air suggested, would be to cut up some old rails, cut the T off the 174 rails, and weld segments or a whole length of the bottom of a tipped-up rail to make the 174 rail tip up. A good fab shop could do it too, but it'd probably cost the same or more than new rails.
I worry about there not being enough "meat" to use the exisiting hyfax only. I have a catalog for sled parts and they have square stock hyfax. A guy could just bolt an extra 3/4" x hyfax width material to the existing hyfax.. The heads could be recessed through the top of the original hyfax and in the bottom of the "adder piece" This "adder" piece could be machined with the taper prior to installing.
Maybe a bolt every 8" should secure it well enough? This would certainly be a low cost method to test the idea. Guys used to completely remove their idler wheels to drop weight so having the wheels too small for the test would not be an issue.
I would worry about added material to make a set. I'm sure it would not be an issue but I like the idea of a solid piece better.
I did some digging as the old Polaris Tipped up rail design was only 2.8 degrees that started 1/3 the rail length from the back of the rail. So if you use those numbers on a 174 you would end up with a tipped up rail starting at approx. 24" from the rear of the rail and it would raise the rail up .97"
I have access to the UHMW bar stock in 1-1/4" x 2" or 3" at 60" long in black (Stock overall Hyfax size is 1-1/4" wide x 7/8" tall). Those are not too expensive. I also already have a brand new set of hyfax for my 174 to take all of the notch dimensions from. I'm going to build a set just like your concept that has an extra 1" added to the front that tappers down to the stock thickness in the rear. I'm going to use this as a test along with the Skinz ARC system that I picked up dirt cheap to see if this actually gains any change in sled handling. I'm not expecting 155 playful out of this but a bit more than the current setup would be fun. I'm also going to see if I can find a router/mill bit that could cut the Polaris rail profile groove in one pass or two passes. That would make it much easier to test this as you could reproduce them quick.
Here is basically what would happen if you take the old Polaris Tipped up rail design and morph it into the 174 rail length for visual reference:
Otherwise I did look into building my own rails. Using the same 7075 Aluminum I could build a set for about $650 plus my time. Since I have a stock set of rails already it would be easy to replicate that design into CAD and change the profile to the tipped up design. Then just have the rail profile cut and machined down the sides to create the "T" profile. 7075 Aluminum is expensive as hell. But in talking with a vendor of mine they would sell me just the rough rectangle I would need at weight cost. I'm sure I would have a ton of time into this but could be worth it in the end.
For now we'll try the Hyfax route.
For now we'll try the Hyfax route.
V
volcano buster
Well-known member
I think it could be possible. The plastic is going to get hot while running through the router so you will need to accommodate chip extraction.
If it were my project, I would start with the straight cut bit and get about 90% of the depth cut and the full width of the center channel in several passes to get the depth, then come back with the T-cutter. If it was jigged properly, I think the T-cutter could be done in a single pass per side. Shouldn't take long, but that plastic will be clinging to everything due to static electricity.
Once the slot was cut, then (assuming you have access to a bandsaw, table saw, or long-straight cut router bit) I think you could build a quick jig out of wood to hold the slide on its side to cut the taper. I would make a piece of metal to slide into the fresh groove and bolt to a side board on the jig to hold the hifax tight during the cut. This jig/sled should be able to slide down the rail of a saw table to keep it square with the blade. Something similar to the picture but wouldn't need to be so elaborate.
If it were my project, I would start with the straight cut bit and get about 90% of the depth cut and the full width of the center channel in several passes to get the depth, then come back with the T-cutter. If it was jigged properly, I think the T-cutter could be done in a single pass per side. Shouldn't take long, but that plastic will be clinging to everything due to static electricity.
Once the slot was cut, then (assuming you have access to a bandsaw, table saw, or long-straight cut router bit) I think you could build a quick jig out of wood to hold the slide on its side to cut the taper. I would make a piece of metal to slide into the fresh groove and bolt to a side board on the jig to hold the hifax tight during the cut. This jig/sled should be able to slide down the rail of a saw table to keep it square with the blade. Something similar to the picture but wouldn't need to be so elaborate.
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Excellent ideas. I was thinking the same thing for the router bit. I was actually thinking of making a jig that the hyfax would slide "through" on the router table so that in each pass the hyfax remained in the same "track" and you did not have to worry about trying to hold the hyfax down the entire length while it was running. Just feed it through the jig.
I do like that idea for the table saw for cutting the taper in the hyfax. That would keep it a nice straight cut. It would also some adjustment for different length hyfax.
I want this to be very reproduceable just in case this works well.
V
volcano buster
Well-known member
That is what I had in mind as well, but thought it might get rather long and wordy with my description. I would set it up so the jig would set up one side of the cut so lateral depth is ensured on each pass. This allows you to feed a fresh slide through from each end to get a matching profile. Example: If you were after a 3/4" notch with a 1/2" bit, the jig would hold the material 1/8" off center so it would be the same 1/8" off center in the other direction when you run the material through from the other end [1/8"+1/2"+1/8"=3/4]. You would need a jig "tube" as the slides are so limber you would struggle to keep a uniform pattern through the entire length, both side to side and up and down. In my case, I would make the jig tie into the slide guide on the router table deck so it was in the same place every time it was set up. The only thing the operator would need to verify is the bit depth/height.
The long arm suspension?
For starters it will soften the track attack angle 9-11*. To accomplish this the front torque arm is 3.75” longer than stock.
It also slows FTS shaft speeds down and in turn smooths out the rough stuff.
I recently bought a 155 matryx pro I planed on putting a Kmod 175 under. In some of the deepest snow of the season I have rode it with the 155 under it. I am impressed how well it gets around. I think instead, I am going to convert my Kmod to a 165.
Fantastic, please let me know how it turns out.
