153 powerclaw on a 155 dragon cando?? (AND PRO Chassis)

[KAWGRN]

is this dooable I know on the 163 it been done, would I have to shorten the front of the rails and add a anti stab kit or smaller avid drivers or is there enough adjustment on the rear wheel adjustment

 

[mountainhorse]

In short... IMO... If you run the smaller diameter 7 tooth, 3" pitch drivers and stock diameter rear wheels.... you SHOULD be able to run the stock rails with the 2" shorter 153" track. If you want to run the Avid Combo drivers, you will need to trim the rails back at the tips. If you want to run the 8 tooth drivers... IMO... you will need to get some custom rails (approx $300 for the pair... your stock take-offs will sell for about $200) to allow proper location/adjustment of the rear axle.

Running the proper, stock tension... even with Combo drivers and trimmed rails, IMO, you will not need to run an anti-stab kit. Only when people run sag (free-hang) in thier tracks do they have trouble with stabbing.


Here's some info from a previous post...

A 3" pitch driver has 3" between the base of the tooth at the rim of the driver (not the tip of the tooth)...

3" x 8 teeth = approx 24" circumference of the driver rim....
3" x 7 teeth = approx 21" circumference of the driver rim....
2.86" x 8 teeth = approx 22.8" circumference of the driver rim...

or in other words

Circumference / ∏ = Diameter

3" pitch x 8 tooth.... 24/∏ = approx 7.64" diameter ... 3.82" from driveshaft center to inside surface of the track

3" pitch x 7 tooth.... 21/∏ = approx 6.68" diameter ... 3.34" from driveshaft center to inside surface of the track

2.86" pitch x 8 tooth.... 22.8/∏ = approx 7.25" diameter ... 3.625" from driveshaft center to inside surface of the track

A 3" pitch 8 tooth driver will push any given track about .195" closer to the tunnel than a 8 tooth, 2.86" pitch driver. If you add the extra 0.10" of a camo extreme 2.5" track.... mind you in the 3" pitch... you will decrease the tunnel clearance by more than 1/4" over the 2.4" polaris running the 8 tooth 2.86" pitch drivers. This is why the 7 tooth drivers are necessary.

The 3" x 7 tooth driver brings the inside surface of the track .28" closer (over 1/4") closer to the swing arm rub pads.

To answer your question (finally, because I had a brain fart in not reading your question carefully)

For the 2.25" track... on 3" pitch, 8 tooth drivers... an approximation... I'm assuming the Cat Power Claw is a single ply track.... the clearance would open up by the .15" shorter lug LESS the added radius of the 3" pitch, 8 tooth driver (.195") or about .045" Less clearance than the stock Dragon single ply 2.4"... wow... less clearance than the stock 2.4... Who da thunk it???

I wanted to figure this out anyway for a friend.

My brain hurts now... and I probably made some mistakes!!

 

[mountainhorse]

As far as the drivers go... you have two choices... introvert and combo drivers (AKA, incorrectly, as "Extrovert" drivers).

Combo drivers require you to trim the rails to clear the teeth, introvert drivers do not.

SLP and Carls sell the 3" pitch introverts for the Polaris tubular-splined driveshaft.. Avid Products for the combo drivers.

http://www.slp.cc/catalog.cfm?pageID=detail&catalogID=3&catID=16&productID=1044
These new track drive spockets allow the use of 3" pitch tracks on Polaris IQ models with splined driveshafts. These drivers only drive on the internal track lugs to allow them to be used with closed window tracks. Sold per Each $69.95

If you are running the Powerclaw, I would recommend the 7 tooth if you want to get the most out of the track and not loose hp to a choked off tunnel... the stock clearance is poor to start with.

Here is a photo of a tunnel (upside down) showing the rubbing of a STOCK 2.4" track on the tunnel... Polaris did not put much thought into the clearance of the track in this area.

OR

Install a Drop/Roll kit to get the proper clearance... Heck.. IMO.. a D&R will improve stock performance as it will free up HP that is lost in "pumping" snow thru the tunnel (parasitic drag)

Some on the forum are using the stock Dragon 2.86" pitch drivers on the 3" pitch tracks... I looked into this a bit... talked with Bruce at Camoplast last season about it as well.

Although the 2.86" pitch drivers will turn the track, the smaller drive cogs of the 2.86" pitch drivers will not fill the space between the involute drive "nubs" inside the track of a 3" pitch and cause slop and wear on the nubs... more prone to ratcheting... if combo 2.86" pitch drivers are used with a 3" track.. the drive teeth will be engauged more than they should.

Since the Power Claw track does NOT have driver windows... the stock center extrovert driver will not have a place to operate and will need to be removed from the driveshaft, which... IMO... is even a good Idea on the Stock Dragon running the stock track to avoid Ice build up and causing other problems. Again, this is IMO and a lot of others will attest that they have had no problems.

 

[mountainhorse]

Here is a pic of Power Claws on a couple of Dragons... DUB on the forum owns these two sleds..

 

[mountainhorse]

Track Tension:

From a previos post of mine.

BTW... even with the Avid Combo drivers... Keep the track tension stock on the track... a loose track allows the track to distort, the paddles to fold over a bit more than normal and gives poor performance.

I believe that loose tracks that distort under load are the major reason for "stabbing" NOT the fact that the rails are trimmed or the teeth are "sucking" the track up between the the driver and rail... a tight track cant get "sucked up" in that gap. Early M-Cats had crappy rear suspension geometry that HAD to run the track loose... those are the ones that gave rise to the phenomona of stabbing...loose tracks to follow suit... stock Doos dont have stabbing problems, they have short rail tips and no issues with stabbing on a wholesale level.

The new single ply tracks will stretch more quickly than previous models and need to be checked for proper tension quite often (tensioning instructions in your Owners manual)

Proper tension = better performance than a loose (out of spec) track.

 

[mountainhorse]

From a previous post...

Here is my take on it... IMO....

Ski Doo, Arctic Cat, Yamaha and now Polaris (on the Factory installed drivers on the IQ-Race sleds) all run COMBO drivers (different than a true extrovert driver)

There is a difference between an "EXTROVERT" driver and a "COMBO" driver

A combo driver [eg Avid] drives from both the involute "nubs" on the inside of the track and the windows of the the track .... it does not rely on the "teeth" of the extro-portion of this "combo" unless you start to ratchet. A TRUE extrovert does not drive at all from the involute nubs on the inside of the track (eg the center driver on a dragon).


Some stuff I've learned from the diff engineers in the sled world.

Looser tracks allow the paddles to fold over easier... a part of the equation that most dont think of and is the MAIN reason why (I think) Jack Struthers says that a tight track works better than a loose one...it hooks up better, expecially in more setup conditions like on a track or hill-drags, or spring time climbing (or our average Sierra cement)

The people with Extrovert (AKA combo) drivers seem to want to run the track real loose and feel it frees up HP...a loose track allows for distortion of the track as it leaves the driver and makes the track more suceptable to "stabbing"... With the extros, I dont look at them as a way to allow a track to be run looser... I look at it as a prevention of ratcheting in the high-demand situations.

I think the "combo" drivers are the best option, but run almost as tight as the stock drivers AND run the more slippery hyperfax as well as popping back on some idlers for spring conditions as well.

Extros, IMO, are mandatory on high hp sleds... BUT they should be run at the correct, not loose, tension... similar to normal tracks/stock-drivers.

When they are running normally, not ratcheting, the teeth of the extro are not even contacting the track or the clips and only drive from the involute portion on the inside of the track.
The first of the M-series cats had poor geometry that tightended up the track when it worked thru the travel and caused all kinds of problems that was the big factory push to extros and the one that gave the extros and stabbing a bad rap


Do NOT run the track too loose.... many people do with extros and end up stabbing the rails thru the windows... IMO, too loose of tracks by people with Extrovert drivers is the main cause of stabbing track windows with the rails ("stabbing")... most sleds do not, IMO, need anti stabbing kits...

There is a difference between an extrovert and a combo driver... unless it is ratcheting, the teeth on a combo driver never touch the track.

Track tension is critical for maintaining correct suspension
operation. If the track tension is too loose it may cause the track
to slip or “ratchet” on the drive shaft drivers and cause the track
and rear suspension durability problems. If the track is too tight
it will wear down the rail slides, reduce top speeds, cause rear
suspension vibration and cause track and rear suspension
durability problems.
1. Lift the rear of the machine and place a jack stand or secure
the rear of the machine so that the track is off of the
ground.
2. Start the engine and slowly let the engine turn the track
over. This will warm up the track for a correct
measurement.
3. Shut off the engine.
4. Place a 10 lb. (4.54kg) weight at point (A). Point (A) is 16”
(41cm) ahead of the rear idler shaft (E).
5. Measure the distance (D) between the rail slider and the
track. This measurement should fall with in the
measurement range for the appropriate vehicle.
6. If adjustment is needed, loosen up the lock nuts (B) on each
side.
7. Loosen up the idler shaft bolts (F).
8. Turn each adjuster bolt (C) toward the idler wheel
(clockwise) if you need less of a measurement. Turn the
adjuster bolt (C) toward the front of the sled
(counterclockwise) if you need a greater measurement.
9. When you achieve the correct tension listed below, torque
the lock nuts (B) and idler shaft bolts on each side to 35 ftlb
(48 N-m).
NOTE: Track alignment affects track tension.
Misalignment will cause excessive wear to the track
and slide rails. Excessive slide wear will appear on
units with the track tension set too tight (or below
measurement specification).

Correct track tension for the RMK's..

3/8" - 1/2"
(1-1.3cm)

 

[mountainhorse]

Quote: Mountainhorse
Cats and their suspension geometry are a whole different ball of wax... plus they run a big 3" driver window...and most run at least 1" free hang on the cats...

Polaris runs combo drivers on their Race sleds without anti stab kits BUT they run stock tension (10 lbs on track in front of the rear scissor ... 3/8" below hyfax) Those sleds had the pizz run out of them... all with shorter rail tips and the combo drivers.

IMO.. MOST of the stabbing issues are tension related.

The Cat suspensions really tightend up the track at full travel... especially on a tail hard landing ... the track got real tight and the rail tips push right thru the window...

Anti stab kits cant hurt though and only add 4 lbs to your suspension.

...

 

[hillking]

So what is the purpose of changing the stock 155 track and what year is this on ?
Is the 07 700 track different than the 08 and 09's .

Would this be an upgrade in the deep powder ?

Are there better alternatives.

Like which would work the best in deep powder out of all tracks ?

Thank's

 

[Jkinzer]

the powerlcaw track is the best track hands down for all around riding... great for boondocking hooks up great in all situations.. i will have one on my sled in a month

 

[pura vida]

So what is the purpose of changing the stock 155 track and what year is this on ?
Is the 07 700 track different than the 08 and 09's .

Would this be an upgrade in the deep powder ?

Are there better alternatives.

Like which would work the best in deep powder out of all tracks ?

Thank's

the 07s have the series 5.0 and the 08 and 09 sleds have the series 5.1. most people agree the 5.1 is superior to the 5.0. it is hard to say what is the best all around track. the powder claw is very nice but so is the challenger extreme. both are probably superior to the series 5.0 on the 07. personally i like the series 4 better than the 5.0 and at least as well as the 5.1. and as always thanks again for all the info MH. indirectly answered at least two other questions i had.

pv

 

[KAWGRN]

In short... IMO... If you run the smaller diameter 7 tooth, 3" pitch drivers and stock diameter rear wheels.... you SHOULD be able to run the stock rails with the 2" shorter 153" track. If you want to run the Avid Combo drivers, you will need to trim the rails back at the tips. If you want to run the 8 tooth drivers... IMO... you will need to get some custom rails (approx $300 for the pair... your stock take-offs will sell for about $200) to allow proper location/adjustment of the rear axle.

Running the proper, stock tension... even with Combo drivers and trimmed rails, IMO, you will not need to run an anti-stab kit. Only when people run sag (free-hang) in thier tracks do they have trouble with stabbing.


Here's some info from a previous post...

so If I understand your math the 3.0 pitch 7 tooth is the one to use with the powderclaw as it will increase clearance by .15 inch,,, am I understanding this correctly???if so I will need to order the smaller drivers. if so do I need to move the suspension back an inch or with the 153 inch Ice age rails using 8 inch rear wheels do the trick??? and then what gearing would you recommend????

 

[KAWGRN]

the powerlcaw track is the best track hands down for all around riding... great for boondocking hooks up great in all situations.. i will have one on my sled in a month

Hey Jeremy,,, AWSOME VIDEO dude!!!!!!!!

 

[beeler]

Tracks

I also have a 07 with the stock 5.0 track. How will the cat track work with the E-Z ride I have. Does the 5.1 hook up better the 5.0 seems to be really soft ?

In what conditions is the cat or 5.1 better. And is it worth it. Is it lots better or just a little better.

 

[Jkinzer]

in every condition except for deep light fluffy and i mean fluffy powder days the AC powerclaw track is superior to all the polaris tracks. the 5.1 is flimsy, works great in powder and folds over in about every other scenario.

 

[mountainhorse]

Some things to comment on: (IMO)

---The Power Claw 153 weighs about 10 lbs less than the Camo extreme 155 and could weigh even less if you ported it.

--- The 2007 series 5.0 x2.4" lug tracks are know to be flimsy performers, especially in downhill use in heavy or spring snow.

--- If Ice age make the rails for you... you can have them set up for any combination of track, idler and suspension position that you want... but dont wait till the beginning of the season to order... they get SUPER busy at that time filling a lot of orders from OEM and aftermarket.

---Jeremey... Great to talk with you yesterday, remember that many of the people on here are not running 14lbs of boost... or even boost at all. That can affect how something performs. Put enough track speed down and the sled does amazing things.
How did the Std vs the HCR P.C. track compare in the fluff?

--- With the EZ Ryde skid, if you went with the 7 tooth drivers you should be able to fit the track without changing the rails or moving them. If not, Ice Age may be able to get you another set of rails for your buggy.


I'd like to hear DUB and Chris at Carls chime in... I think Carls is running the PC track on some of their builds.

Also, Super Dave3 on here has the PC 162" under his turbo 900 IQ-RMK, he replaced the Camo Ext 162" x 2.5" that was on there... I'm wondering how the rest of the season panned out for him.

 

[KAWGRN]

Thanks for the info Mountain horse I am now ordering 7 tooth drivers and ice age rails for my timbersled rea,,,, what a about Gearing change???????

 

[sledneck_03]

can a 151 be put on a 155? or would a axle offset kit be needed and just could be turned around. I would really like to put the 151x1.5 crossover track on my sled, there is a 159 but i would like the lighter weight of the 151

 

[Rob1334]

Actually have debating a possible change on my sled too. Was debating the longer rails from ice age, but was thinking about it and have a new idea. I just picked up the MMP 8" and Polaris axle, and was thinking about just picking up a pair of rail extensions to go to a 151. If I change the drivers (have the 2.52 on mine now, will this fit another window design or which one is compatible with the 3.0?) and pick up a set of rear suspension blocks to raise it another 1-2", will I still need an extension on the sled? (read in an older post somewhere that it will angle the flap enough to still be efective, can dig for the post again if need be.) Was interested in that powerclaw on my sled if it wasn't too much work...

 

[hillking]

Another question , what is the weight difference , 07 series 5.0 and the powerclaw 153.
I know I seen it on here at one time I think M.h will know.
just bought a 07 700 155.

 

[mountainhorse]

The Power Claw weighs about 8 lbs less than the series 5.0

Rob... if you want to switch up to the 153... get the Van Amburg extension/bumper... Avid 7 tooth drivers (or 8 tooth Avid or PPD drivers plus a D&R )... The Power Claw is about 11 lbs lighter than the 151 x 2.4" Series IV track. ..... With that smaller engine.. ou will want to keep the track turning as freely as possible and eliminate as much parasitic drag as you can. Single ply tracks like the Power claw and the series 5.1 Dragon tracks from 2009 turn easier as well.

I would also delete the front tunnel cooler and run the stock Polaris Plastic Dragon block off (snow doesnt stick to the plastic ones) You will need to change the thermostat out to the Bypass style from the 09 Dragons. This will free up some space at the front of the tunnel and free up some hp to boot! Dont worry about cooling capacity.. the 146" Assaults dont have this cooler and dont have a overheating problem... and that is an 800cc.
Remove #13,9,12 in the dwg below... and put a rubber cap over the bottom of the thermo housing where #7 clamp is.

You will need to regear and change your clutching... Carls should be able to help with that.

IMO... don't jack up the back of your sled.. it will throw off the balance of the sled and give you more ski pressure than you want... unless you are a big climber and run 14lbs of boost.