I would say there are good points with this topic. I for one would be MORE than willing to pay more for the sport that i enjoy than watch it slip away. Whether it be grooming or parking. You pay to play. I personally know a guy that owns 4 snowmobiles and pays for the fees every year. Last year he rode maybe a total of one time. Dedication. Just my opinion. I like the groomed trail and cleaned snowpark to park in. Just my 2 cents.
$100+ to register your sled with passes!!! Make Your Voice Heard.
- Thread starter WaBackcountry
- Start date
Thanks, I understand your point too. I spend 75% of my patrol time patoling alone. I am one of 2 officers that cover the Black Hills area. I spend time both on and off trail. Even though our terrain is not as severe as yours it still gets riders in trouble. I have always been a believer that learning the back country is an important part of my patrol duties. It hard to respond to accidents and S&R situations if you do not know the area. I know this has been discussed on other threads but I fully understand the frustration of local S&R and LE agencies not being properly equiped or skilled in back country riding. Our local S&R has does not have skills or equipment to get off trail and they rely heavily on our help. We do ride Summits equiped with 50 watt radio systems and carry ropes ,hand saws, bunjie's, first aid equip ect. I have been doing this for 20 years and ride 4-5 thousand miles per year. I also snowmobile for fun which makes me a little more unusual for the snowmobile patrol community. Sorry for jacking your thread with this topic but I had heard the same comment from a prior supervisor that also struck a nerve with
me. I hope the State of Washington can adequately fund their snowmobile program. I am sure it means as much to Washington snowmobilers as our snowmobile program means to SD snowmobilers.
S
snowbie
Active member
I just came back from snowmobiling in Idaho for 4 days. Spent around $300 in fuel to get there, $100 in fuel for the sled, around $40 in oil. $500 for the cabin. $150 or so for food. $200 for the belt I blew. I spent $1500 to rebuild the engine before I came. Engine blew again last weekend, should cost $400 to fix. I'm done fixing this sled, so I'm going to spend $13K+ to buy a new one next year. That's not counting the $1500 in gear I wear, the $6K trailer to put all the stuff in, or the $700 avy pack I want.
Idaho charged me $35 for an out of state permit. I didn't even blink an eye.
Groomers are expensive. So are plows. So are the trucks to tow them to the area. Skilled operators are expensive. Diesel is expensive. The insurance is expensive.
I would pay $200 a year to ride and not even blink an eye. Sledding is expensive. I'm don't make a ton of money, but I love sledding and make it a financial priority.
The grooming in Idaho was amazing. I would love to have that level of grooming here, and am willing to pay for it.
Idaho charged me $35 for an out of state permit. I didn't even blink an eye.
Groomers are expensive. So are plows. So are the trucks to tow them to the area. Skilled operators are expensive. Diesel is expensive. The insurance is expensive.
I would pay $200 a year to ride and not even blink an eye. Sledding is expensive. I'm don't make a ton of money, but I love sledding and make it a financial priority.
The grooming in Idaho was amazing. I would love to have that level of grooming here, and am willing to pay for it.
Seems like any outdoor recreation is better in Idaho though. I don't think it will ever be as good here. To many concrete junglers in Seattle making decisions where our money goes 
U
Ultralord
Well-known member
I think its crazy that I ride Saturday, again on Sunday and again Yesterday and the road @ crystal springs is beet to crap on saturday My wife wont even go up my kids cant walk on monday because the trails are so beat up I think the should @ least charge for the snowpark pass 40-60 per vehicle or a -10-20 per trip trail pass or better yet figure out what they need for funds to Grome Friday night Saturday night and Wednesday and charge That ammount. I think It sucks that my family does not want to go because they dont want to be in pain for the next 3 days.
The officer is the parking lot @ stampede should do a little more to protect the rights of the snowmobiler and stop pandering to the cross country skier!
and The Crystal springs parking lot needs to be managed single vehicles have designated parking spots and trucks with trailers get another. Why does that Subaru need to take a spot that is 4 times larger than it needs.
The officer is the parking lot @ stampede should do a little more to protect the rights of the snowmobiler and stop pandering to the cross country skier!
and The Crystal springs parking lot needs to be managed single vehicles have designated parking spots and trucks with trailers get another. Why does that Subaru need to take a spot that is 4 times larger than it needs.
I'm tired of paying every time i turn around just like everyone else. Hunting, fishing, hiking, biking and sledding--they are all expensive. Shoot--eating at McDonalds takes most of a $10.
That said, I drive a $35k truck with a $1.5k deck hauling a $11k sled and wear more than $1k in gear.
I don't make a ton of money but this is what i choose to do. You gotta pay to play in ALL outdoor sports. $100 registration and associated fees to ride my sled is really just a drop in the bucket.
As much as I hate the idea of sledding costing more money--I'll pay to play--gladly!
BigT
That said, I drive a $35k truck with a $1.5k deck hauling a $11k sled and wear more than $1k in gear.
I don't make a ton of money but this is what i choose to do. You gotta pay to play in ALL outdoor sports. $100 registration and associated fees to ride my sled is really just a drop in the bucket.
As much as I hate the idea of sledding costing more money--I'll pay to play--gladly!
BigT
How is your argument any different ?? Let's increase snowmobile fees because we need the money because you have the ability to pay, because you can afford 12K for a new sled, 30K for a truck, 4K for a truck
"If you can't afford $60 a year, then maybe you shouldn't own a sled"
HILARIOUS!
"If you can't afford $60 a year, then maybe you shouldn't own a sled"
HILARIOUS!
I hate taxes. Say it again, I hate taxes. But the best ones are pay to play. The ones using the service pay for it. We have too many drunk losers that we need to support. I love the people on food stamps who have cars(no insurance though), cell phones, a drug or alcohol habit, smoke, have cable, 2 TVs etc.
But I really appreciate a groomed trail and a plowed snow park. We rode Pierce Creek last week and it wasn't plowed and it was a hassle to get into and I had to "break trail" to get back on the road. The highway groomers built up a big berm of snud at the freeway entrance that I had to hit at 40mph to get though. So charge me more. $20-30-40 who really cares except 4-5 guys on here. If I paid $10 a trip each time I left a snow park it would be $350 a year so anything under $100 is cheap.
But I really appreciate a groomed trail and a plowed snow park. We rode Pierce Creek last week and it wasn't plowed and it was a hassle to get into and I had to "break trail" to get back on the road. The highway groomers built up a big berm of snud at the freeway entrance that I had to hit at 40mph to get though. So charge me more. $20-30-40 who really cares except 4-5 guys on here. If I paid $10 a trip each time I left a snow park it would be $350 a year so anything under $100 is cheap.
I have a question for the WSSA guys. Why are you proposing the huge increase in tab fees and having to pay for the Sno Park separately?
Is it to increase services or simply maintain current sevices?
Is it to increase services or simply maintain current sevices?
both !!
We've lost nearly 30% of our grooming funds over the last 4 years or so, Many of us agree that the snopark permict should not be free, One per family, not per sled, and a sled reg increase of 10 bucks wouldnt feel so bad, All in all, I register 5 sleds, so for me, it's 5 x 10 bucks, $ plus $40 snopark, which equals $ 90 more for the entire year, I'm not going to bitch or quit riding. I know where the money is going and it will help tremendously. ya and when it goes up another 10 bucks per sled it'll cost me another 50 per year, still going to pay , It's a deal for all the services we get for ruffly 100 snoparks, plowing , sanicans, grooming, ect ect ect.
We've lost nearly 30% of our grooming funds over the last 4 years or so, Many of us agree that the snopark permict should not be free, One per family, not per sled, and a sled reg increase of 10 bucks wouldnt feel so bad, All in all, I register 5 sleds, so for me, it's 5 x 10 bucks, $ plus $40 snopark, which equals $ 90 more for the entire year, I'm not going to bitch or quit riding. I know where the money is going and it will help tremendously. ya and when it goes up another 10 bucks per sled it'll cost me another 50 per year, still going to pay , It's a deal for all the services we get for ruffly 100 snoparks, plowing , sanicans, grooming, ect ect ect.
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Jet J-you seem to know more facts about the WSSA intentions than most people.
Do you know if increased fees equal increased services or is it just to cover current services?
Do you know if increased fees equal increased services or is it just to cover current services?
Why have you lost 30% of grooming funds?
The WSSA has been asking for donations to the grooming fund for some time...in fact I think they will match your donation. So if you are so jacked to pay more I assume you will donate today?
And hopefully you will find non snowparks to park at and not ride the groomed trails. 14,000 grand for a new sled, 50 bucks a week to fill it, 100 to fill the truck to get it there and have problems paying 100 bucks a year to use plowed snowparks and groomed trails. go ride in Canada and pay 20 every time you pull into a snowpark and see what that comes up to. But maybe you only go twice a year.
S
snowbie
Active member
I'm not going to donate so some cheap whiner like yourself can benefit from my hard earned cash. If everyone paid a little more, grooming and plowing could be much better. The improvement would be a lot better than a few individuals donating, and would be fair.
There are winter outdoor activities that you can do for cheap and /or free.
Sledding BY FAR isn't even on the radar.
My cheap pair of gloves cost more than the snow park pass.
I rode Hellens a few weeks back. They didn't plow the road all the way to the snow park, probably due to lack of funds. There was barely enough room for 1 4 place trailer and 4 or 5 trucks with sled decks. I feel sorry for anyone that came after us, because they would have to back up a long way to get turned around.
I have NEVER complained about the current grooming situations and I have said time and again if you read the posts that I will pay more. I understand that operating costs increase so implementing a system that matches the cost of inflation makes perfect sense. This should have been done ten years ago then we wouldn't be in this situation.
I am looking for facts about how our money will be spent and if we will see significantly better services if we pay twice as much. So far I have not seen any concrete evidence that we will get more services and frankly I don't see the need for more services where I go.
What happens when we pay twice as much and the road to Helens still isn't plowed? Raise fees some more in hopes that maybe this time its enough to get the road plowed in. My understanding is the contracts were already paid this year and in the lowest snow accumulation in years if it isn't getting done this year it sure as hell isn't because of funding. Someone else from the WSSA should be able to chime in on the facts here.
I want everyone to be well informed including myself and then we voice our opinion to the legislators. That is what a democracy is all about. I would never insult you for having a different opinion. Its okay to disagree.
DECLINE IN # OF REGISTERED SLEDS FOR NUMBLER ONE
Waback, I've said this many times but not all people have read my threads, In the last 7 t 9 years we gone down in registration's , when you loose 8,000 sleds registered you loose a lot of money, also it cost more to groom now than it used to, diesel is up , insurance, wages, trucking / transporting ect ect, If we get the increases they are going after, it will be a direct improvement in our grooming program, More frequency ect, just about every grooming area in the state has had to cut way back on the grooming frequency other wise we'd be done grooming by the end of Jan or early Feb. at stampede we went from 5 days a week to 3, lots of people complaining who ride sundays up there, not much we can do, just dont have the money to do it. And all this hoopalaw about having people take money as you drive into the snopark will not work. Way to many snoparks ect, not feeseable. State parks does have a program thru our winter rec system where you can donate grooming money to a specified area and it WILL go directly to that area.
Waback, I've said this many times but not all people have read my threads, In the last 7 t 9 years we gone down in registration's , when you loose 8,000 sleds registered you loose a lot of money, also it cost more to groom now than it used to, diesel is up , insurance, wages, trucking / transporting ect ect, If we get the increases they are going after, it will be a direct improvement in our grooming program, More frequency ect, just about every grooming area in the state has had to cut way back on the grooming frequency other wise we'd be done grooming by the end of Jan or early Feb. at stampede we went from 5 days a week to 3, lots of people complaining who ride sundays up there, not much we can do, just dont have the money to do it. And all this hoopalaw about having people take money as you drive into the snopark will not work. Way to many snoparks ect, not feeseable. State parks does have a program thru our winter rec system where you can donate grooming money to a specified area and it WILL go directly to that area.
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Replies are mixed in with your questions, but colored RED
And to reply to a few other of your questions you have posted in this thread...
Jet J-you seem to know more facts about the WSSA intentions than most people.
Do you know if increased fees equal increased services or is it just to cover current services?
Mainly just to cover current services.
Why have you lost 30% of grooming funds?
WE lost the grooming funds due to lower numbers of sleds being registered in the prior year. (Dan didn't loose anything, so I hope that was just a typo instead of a snide comment)
The WSSA has been asking for donations to the grooming fund for some time...in fact I think they will match your donation. So if you are so jacked to pay more I assume you will donate today?
I can't answer for snobie, but I did donate my personal money during the short window that WSSA was matching donations. 100% of my donation went to grooming in the area I designated, and the matching funds were spread across ALL the grooming programs in the state. So even if you don't use the same trails I do, you get a slight benefit out of it.
And to reply to a few other of your questions you have posted in this thread...
Jet J-you seem to know more facts about the WSSA intentions than most people.
Do you know if increased fees equal increased services or is it just to cover current services?
Mainly just to cover current services.
Why have you lost 30% of grooming funds?
WE lost the grooming funds due to lower numbers of sleds being registered in the prior year. (Dan didn't loose anything, so I hope that was just a typo instead of a snide comment)
The WSSA has been asking for donations to the grooming fund for some time...in fact I think they will match your donation. So if you are so jacked to pay more I assume you will donate today?
I can't answer for snobie, but I did donate my personal money during the short window that WSSA was matching donations. 100% of my donation went to grooming in the area I designated, and the matching funds were spread across ALL the grooming programs in the state. So even if you don't use the same trails I do, you get a slight benefit out of it.
These discussions go a lot better without the name calling. WaBack is asking questions and seems open minded about this. Jet J have you ever thought of having roads "sponsored" for grooming. A nice sign that says something like "your spine can thank Jet Chevrolet for the grooming on this section of trail" or something more clever. I would sponsor Gold Creek or Stampede or somewhere I ride a lot and it would be nice to be able to write it off for advertising. Police up the signs at the end of the year. Maybe put stickers on the plow or tow vehicle. Again, I support raising fees. First time I have EVER asked for more fees or taxes.