$100+ to register your sled with passes!!! Make Your Voice Heard.

[WaBackcountry]

The guys that are saying "its cheap for a year of access". Well yes, relative to a $12k snowmobile its cheap but don't forget this is our land we are accessing.

Most of the time increased fees just means increased patrol to give more tickets. Its ridiculous the cycle the government is in. If we pay $40 for a sno park permit next year you really think we will see any benifits? I am assureed we will but to be honest I am skeptical.

In my opinion.....

We don't need more services.
We don't need more laws.
We don't need more grooming.
We don't need more fees.

I suggest they implement a small fee increase to cover the cost of inflation since the last fee increase and be done. If its $20 or $40 to cover the cost of inflation then fine.

But that is just my opinion.

 

[summ8rmk]

If u live around Yakima u need a discover pass.
This yr DNR is purchasing a right of way from private land owners so we can access the cascades from the wenas. A few yrs back land owners gated the access rds. Without funds this purchase would not be possible and we would not have access to our lands!

 

[FlyingW]

Out of over 100 SnoParks only about 5 are on DNR land and require a Discovery Pass. If you mainly ride an area that requires a Discovery Pass then that most likely means if you use that area the rest of the year you will still need the Discovery Pass. The Discovery Pass is also good to get you into the different State Parks all across the state so it is good for a lot more than just snowmobiling.

You pay roughly $35 to register your sled for a year to get groomed trails and plowed SnoParks plus sanicans, education, and enforcement. What other recreation or hobby can you do for $35 per year? Health club? Bowling? Golf? Skiing? Watching movies?

Summit800 hit the nail on the head about the Last Resort. Do you know that many areas do subsidize their grooming over what they get from the state? Some more than others. The State has received grants and donations like the WSSA program to help with grooming above and beyond what you pay in registrations and gas tax. Local clubs have also received grants and donations to help their areas out above and beyond what they receive.

I have been the chairman of our local grooming council for several years. The grooming area was developed by miles as the state figureed the cost of grooming per mile and that is how the system got developed. Just speaking for our local area in SE Washington where it is colder and dryer snow we got enough money to groom 45 percent of our allotted miles last year and the year before we groomed 57 percent of our allotted miles. We also have lack of funding for our SnoPark which we must fit in according to the Forest Service or go home as it is below the local ski area and we must stay off the road. Several members have kicked in extra hundreds of dollars each and one year several kicked in thousands each to buy a snowblower to fix our parking problem. If you are just paying your regisration and enjoying the mountains then you are getting off darn cheap. Get involved in your local area and find out how much extra support is coming in addition to the state funding just to make an area enjoyable.

If a groomer costs $150 per hour grooming 5 mph then that cost $30 per mile to groom. The snowmobile account gets $30 from your snowmobile registration so you pay for 1 mile of grooming one time. The snowmobile account also gets $31.05 currently of gas tax for every registered snowmobile and plowing a SnoPark at $90 per hour you pay for about 20 minutes of snow clearing for the entire season. How many extra miles of groomed trail do you enjoy in a season over the one mile that you paid for? Was the SnoPark cleared for your use most of the winter? I have personal property on the mountain at 5100 feet that takes me 60-70 hours per year to keep clear for my own use in addition to the SnoParks that I use.

It was 2001 when the last registration increase went through and the costs of everythig that pertains to our recreation has gone up a lot since then. When the snowmobile program was developed the snowmobilers wanted the open discussion of having to go through the legislature to make sure that State Parks couldn't just randomly start increasing our registration fees. That is how they felt they could keep accountability that the program would work they way that it should. It is now time to increase fees. Sure some are opposed to fee increases but that is always to be expected but it is about the only option we have left. Grants and donations have about been tapped to keep the current system viable. If you didn't know many areas are getting more money than they are receiving from registrations from the state then I say get more involved with your area to see how you can help because every area has had many in the trenches that have been doing all they can for their area and most don't hang around snowmobile forums. Dan Johnson is probably the most visible and he has helped a lot for the Greenwater and I 90 corridor to improve things over what basic funding would provide. My hat goes off to Dan for his effort.

And for WaBackcountry, the state snowmobile association, local clubs, paid lobbyists, and dedicated snowmobilers are watching where the funds go to make sure they go to the snowmobile fund or else they wouldn't support any increase so I'm not sure why you come up with false conclusions to come up with your opinion. There are literally thosands watching to make sure you are wrong about where the money will go. As far as parking on public lands the DNR is a special case but the SnoParks have to be cleared of snow and it costs money to maintain it. Also not all SnoParks are on public lands but enjoy using them as contracts have been made to use them.

It is time to increase funding for our sport.

 

[AZ800]

Discover pass, meh, already have to buy one to launch the boat (gotta make up for no income tax somehow). And as said there's only a small % of snowparks that require it.
Pay for a snowpark pass? That's ok as long as they are not vehicle specific or at least can be assigned to multiple vehicles like the Discover pass did last year. Preferrably 3 or 4 different vehicles allowed. I have more than 1 vehicle that I can use to get to the snow and frequently my buddy who does not own a sled goes with me. He pulls the trailer and borrows one of my sleds. What about buying a new truck in the winter? Have to buy another snopark permit? shouldn't have to.
In all these scenarios I only have 1 vehicle with my only tailer attached to it in a snopark at one time. I understand the potential "snopark pass fraud", but c'mon, that really isnt an issue. Dont see too many peeps swapping snopark passes to save a buck.
Is the snpoark pass $ just for snopark maint and enforecment?

I'm all for raising the sled reg fees provided the grooming gets ALL the add'l money. The groomers are what put out/require the most effort IMO and what needs the most support.

You can keep the fish cops off the trails. Why does it take 2 to cruise around on the trails anyway. That is like putting 2 cops in each cop car. There, 50% fish cop expense cut! More $ for grooming!

 

[winter brew]

The guys that are saying "its cheap for a year of access". Well yes, relative to a $12k snowmobile its cheap but don't forget this is our land we are accessing. Public land that the state wants me to pay to park on.

Most of the time increased fees just means increased patrol to give more tickets. Its ridiculous the cycle the government is in. If we pay $40 for a sno park permit next year you really think we will see any benifits? Hell no.

And can anyone tell me where that money goes? Not to the snowmobile fund....I promise you that.

We don't need more services.
We don't need more laws.
We don't need more grooming.
We don't need more fees.

I suggest they implement a small fee increase to cover the cost of inflation since the last fee increase and be done.

But that is just my opinion.

I agree with your list...but would you agree that we should keep what we already have? With no increases for over a decade while the price of everything else has gone up, we have not implemented any adjustments for the cost of living so how do you propose we pay for the plowing of snoparks, sani-cans, trail grooming etc...?? I'm asking this as a sincere, respectful question....not to be argumentive.
Dan J. has been on here many times in the past and posted the actual numbers and exactly where every penny is spent....the bottom line is we need more pennies.
I still get a snopark pass with my tabs....no additional cost, so making the snopark pass a seperate $30 (or whatever) is fine with me. It is only $15 now if purchased seperately so that makes our sled tabs down around $20/year....I would have a hard time saying that the services we get are not worth more than that....some mornings I would pay $100 just for a honey-bucket!
The price is a single tank of fuel for your sled is all we need to keep these services..for an entire year. Unreasonable??

 

[summit800]

I agree with your list...but would you agree that we should keep what we already have? With no increases for over a decade while the price of everything else has gone up, we have not implemented any adjustments for the cost of living so how do you propose we pay for the plowing of snoparks, sani-cans, trail grooming etc...?? I'm asking this as a sincere, respectful question....not to be argumentive.
Dan J. has been on here many times in the past and posted the actual numbers and exactly where every penny is spent....the bottom line is we need more pennies.
I still get a snopark pass with my tabs....no additional cost, so making the snopark pass a seperate $30 (or whatever) is fine with me. It is only $15 now if purchased seperately so that makes our sled tabs down around $20/year....I would have a hard time saying that the services we get are not worth more than that....some mornings I would pay $100 just for a honey-bucket!
The price is a single tank of fuel for your sled is all we need to keep these services..for an entire year. Unreasonable??

That would be all great if we were guarrenteed that it would stay with us and like everything else in this state end up in the general fund!!! I would rather walk into the wssa and give them 30.00 and I bet I could get everyone I ride with to do the same

 

[plumnuts]

modest increase okay... otherwise I will use my Idaho address and license there AND STILL RIDE LEGAL IN WA (other than I will have to buy a snopark permit)... those dorks in Olympia would mess up a wet dream... and with the new Obama appointments here we go again with the desire to make snowmobiles considered a "motor vehicle" and thus we will have to stay on the trails... when that happens I am done

 

[JETJOHNSO]

some of you still dont get it,

YES the snowmobile reg increase will go directly into OUR MOTORIZED budget not the general fund, YES the SNOPARK FEE will go directly into our
motorized budget and it will make a difference for sure, Summitt800 you are wrong, we know where the money goes and how its used , We have a pannel of snowmobilers on the parks board who keep track of it, NONE of it goes into the general fund, Now the dnr money goes into the parks fund not ours, that keeps THEIR snopark plowed, sanicans and maping at the trail head. Like it was said earlier, only about 5 to 10 % of the total snowmobile riders will need the discovery pass, the majority just need a regular old snopark permit . If we do have to buy it next season you only need one per family and will most likely be good for 2 diff vehicles. NOT one for every sled. AND also, these increases will make a huge difference, we've lost almost 30% of our grooming funds over the last 4 or 5 years, that does make a difference "on the snow" for sure,

 

[sdsnocop]

You can keep the fish cops off the trails. Why does it take 2 to cruise around on the trails anyway. That is like putting 2 cops in each cop car. There, 50% fish cop expense cut! More $ for grooming!

How is it that it is not prudent or recomended to ride alone but the fish cops are expected to take risks riding alone? Also it appears as an outsider looking in that fees to snowmobile in Washington are a little higher than other states. SD snowmobile license fee's are $10 per year which has not changed since 1971. There are no additional fees to use the various parking lots and most trails are groomed nightly when conditions allow it. Groomer operators are winter seasonals hired by the state of SD. Also SD only requires a sled from out of state to be registered in their home state to ride in SD.

 

[LeviD]

From what I've been reading its seems like the people who make more money are willing to pay more, even more than what they currently want to raise it to and the people who make less money dont. Understandable, everyone has to live within their budget.

Possibly solution? Fees based on income? you make 30k you pay 10-20. make 50k you pay 40. and so on up to some sort of cap. Wouldnt that realistically even it out accross the board so they can make their money and people will still be happy to pay what they can?

 

[rmkboxer]

How is it that it is not prudent or recomended to ride alone but the fish cops are expected to take risks riding alone? Also it appears as an outsider looking in that fees to snowmobile in Washington are a little higher than other states. SD snowmobile license fee's are $10 per year which has not changed since 1971. There are no additional fees to use the various parking lots and most trails are groomed nightly when conditions allow it. Groomer operators are winter seasonals hired by the state of SD. Also SD only requires a sled from out of state to be registered in their home state to ride in SD.

I don't think they have to plow the roads and no where close to the same terrain.

 

[nikeholley]

Yup...

YES the snowmobile reg increase will go directly into OUR MOTORIZED budget not the general fund, YES the SNOPARK FEE will go directly into our
motorized budget and it will make a difference for sure, Summitt800 you are wrong, we know where the money goes and how its used , We have a pannel of snowmobilers on the parks board who keep track of it, NONE of it goes into the general fund, Now the dnr money goes into the parks fund not ours, that keeps THEIR snopark plowed, sanicans and maping at the trail head. Like it was said earlier, only about 5 to 10 % of the total snowmobile riders will need the discovery pass, the majority just need a regular old snopark permit . If we do have to buy it next season you only need one per family and will most likely be good for 2 diff vehicles. NOT one for every sled. AND also, these increases will make a huge difference, we've lost almost 30% of our grooming funds over the last 4 or 5 years, that does make a difference "on the snow" for sure,

What he said..^^^...

.

 

[4Z]

Too bad there is not a method for those that can and want to pay more, discretely donate.

 

[snowrider_ps]

The guys that are saying "its cheap for a year of access". Well yes, relative to a $12k snowmobile its cheap but don't forget this is our land we are accessing. Public land that the state wants me to pay to park on.

Most of the time increased fees just means increased patrol to give more tickets. Its ridiculous the cycle the government is in. If we pay $40 for a sno park permit next year you really think we will see any benifits? Hell no.

And can anyone tell me where that money goes? Not to the snowmobile fund....I promise you that.

We don't need more services.
We don't need more laws.
We don't need more grooming.
We don't need more fees.

I suggest they implement a small fee increase to cover the cost of inflation since the last fee increase and be done.

But that is just my opinion.

WOW ... you really are clueless as to how the Winter Program works?? Why don't you get in touch with your WSSA Rep or talk to some other members at your next club meeting and get a clue!!

EVERY DIME of any increase WSSA is suggesting goes DIRECTLY into the program!!

The problem with these increases are.... they are coming way to late... these should have happened years ago!!

You can all bash around in this thread all you want and it still won't change the fact that our program is in trouble and if WE as snowmobilers don't DO something about it we will all be parking our sleds.

 

[summit800]

I get a kick out of some of you ,go ahead and give me a bad rating because I speak my mind on what I believe at least I will say it to your face!!

 

[gorilla]

From what I've been reading its seems like the people who make more money are willing to pay more, even more than what they currently want to raise it to and the people who make less money dont. Understandable, everyone has to live within their budget.

Possibly solution? Fees based on income? you make 30k you pay 10-20. make 50k you pay 40. and so on up to some sort of cap. Wouldnt that realistically even it out accross the board so they can make their money and people will still be happy to pay what they can?

Really??? The government really has you brainwashed. Let's punish those that have worked hard to make a good living by making them pay more?? Great logic. All that accomplishes is making people NOT want to succeed since they will just get "punished" for it. If you can't afford the $60 a year increase in sled registration, then maybe you shouldn't own a sled. $100 a year is cheap considering what it costs to groom trails and keep our snow parks open.

Sorry for the rant, but the "tax the rich more" mentality really bugs me.

 

[LeviD]

Really??? The government really has you brainwashed. Let's punish those that have worked hard to make a good living by making them pay more?? Great logic. All that accomplishes is making people NOT want to succeed since they will just get "punished" for it. If you can't afford the $60 a year increase in sled registration, then maybe you shouldn't own a sled. $100 a year is cheap considering what it costs to groom trails and keep our snow parks open.

Sorry for the rant, but the "tax the rich more" mentality really bugs me.

I really hit a soft spot for ya on that one its sounds. That's not exactly what I meant. What's an extra $50-100 more to pay if you make 70,000 more a year over someone. In in the 30-40k range but if making 60k had me paying $20 more a year Ide be glad to do since Ide still be making 19,980 more than I used to. I wasn't saying a guy who makes 20kme pays $5 and someone who makes 100k pays 10,000. I think you took it to an extreme. I see your point though so thanks for bringing that to my attention. Ill admit I didn't think about it like that. Does it mean im brainwashed. No. It was an observation based on reading the previous posts.

 

[gorilla]

I really hit a soft spot for ya on that one its sounds. That's not exactly what I meant. What's an extra $50-100 more to pay if you make 70,000 more a year over someone. In in the 30-40k range but if making 60k had me paying $20 more a year Ide be glad to do since Ide still be making 19,980 more than I used to. I wasn't saying a guy who makes 20kme pays $5 and someone who makes 100k pays 10,000. I think you took it to an extreme. I see your point though so thanks for bringing that to my attention. Ill admit I didn't think about it like that. Does it mean im brainwashed. No. It was an observation based on reading the previous posts.

Like I said, sorry about the rant. I just hate the Robin Hood mentality. I was a little harsh saying brainwashed. Everyone should pay the same in my eyes. Why make the system extremely difficult by changing rates based off income. Then people will try and cheat the system, costing more in enforcement than if they just raise the rates and not base it off income. $60 a year increase isn't that bad unless u have a fleet of sleds.

 

[AZ800]

How is it that it is not prudent or recomended to ride alone but the fish cops are expected to take risks riding alone? Also it appears as an outsider looking in that fees to snowmobile in Washington are a little higher than other states. SD snowmobile license fee's are $10 per year which has not changed since 1971. There are no additional fees to use the various parking lots and most trails are groomed nightly when conditions allow it. Groomer operators are winter seasonals hired by the state of SD. Also SD only requires a sled from out of state to be registered in their home state to ride in SD.

Guess I wasn't completely clear in my statement.
The sherrifs I've seen on sleds here are not getting deep into the backcountry when they're out patrolling. In fact I've only seen them on the main trails on machines that any prudent sledder wouldn't take too far off trail on a decent powder day.
I was not suggesting that they significantly increase their own risk, as I feel a trail ride is not unsafe to do by yourself at all provided you are competent, knowledgable and have a decent machine. Also whenever I see them they are not the first sleds out of the sno park and certianly not the last ones back in, so if trail riding, that leaves alot of sledders still out there that would stop and help if they had a breakdown (unless they hadn't registered their sled!)
I mean if we need budget cuts, doesn't take 2 cops to check registrations.
Not trying to downplay your profession at all SD so please dont take it that way. When the belt gets tighter in my profession I have to do "more with less" as well.

 

[LeviD]

Like I said, sorry about the rant. I just hate the Robin Hood mentality. I was a little harsh saying brainwashed. Everyone should pay the same in my eyes. Why make the system extremely difficult by changing rates based off income. Then people will try and cheat the system, costing more in enforcement than if they just raise the rates and not base it off income. $60 a year increase isn't that bad unless u have a fleet of sleds.

Yeah I didn't think about that good point.