Must be those sticky secondary bushings I've seen some people post about.
Catalyst 858 Mid-Range Misfire
- Thread starter Snagg
- Start date
I've had my secondary apart several times and never noticed any stickiness although I'm using the BDX lightweight secondary spider which comes with rollers. Only have about 115 miles on the sled though. Definitely a lot of bugs to work out. Had I known I would have held off on buying this year....especially with the absolute garbage winter we've had up her in AK. Last year was epic.....guess we're paying the price this year.
The bad luck continues....
Ordered the goat tuner from SSI/BDX. Had it shipped overnight since it was only $10 more and I was thinking I might go riding tomorrow. Opened the box. No manual. Emailed Jeff at BDX and asked if he had a pdf with the instructions. Said to contact Brady who was out until tomorrow. Found an Ibexx video showing updating a 600....looked simple enough. Plugged it in and after fiddling with it for a few minutes got it hooked up to my wifi. It immediately updated and I guess registered the license and all that. Then I was able to download the tune. Picked the tune and confirmed and then met with message saying it failed to open the tune file. Re-started and tried several times with same result. Very frustrating to say the least. Sent off a message to Ibexx and will call BDX tomorrow morning to see if I can get it resolved. I suspect the tuner itself is the issue. Seems to be fairly buggy in other ways too.
Ordered the goat tuner from SSI/BDX. Had it shipped overnight since it was only $10 more and I was thinking I might go riding tomorrow. Opened the box. No manual. Emailed Jeff at BDX and asked if he had a pdf with the instructions. Said to contact Brady who was out until tomorrow. Found an Ibexx video showing updating a 600....looked simple enough. Plugged it in and after fiddling with it for a few minutes got it hooked up to my wifi. It immediately updated and I guess registered the license and all that. Then I was able to download the tune. Picked the tune and confirmed and then met with message saying it failed to open the tune file. Re-started and tried several times with same result. Very frustrating to say the least. Sent off a message to Ibexx and will call BDX tomorrow morning to see if I can get it resolved. I suspect the tuner itself is the issue. Seems to be fairly buggy in other ways too.
I had this too. They had to change some parameter or something via wifi/internet and after that it loaded the file in the ecu. I m suspicious if they had to take something good out of the tune. Let me know when you have yours updated
The older Team-built secondary from the Proclimb/Ascender chassis looks the same from the outside, but the bushing shape/type is completely different from what's coming on the Catalyst now. Both on the helix and sheave. Team has the split bushing with a big radius on it. Catalyst has the straight bushing. Someone that was having RPM issues on FB posted this and I've seen more than one person post that they had an improvement by just swapping to the older secondary.
Ibexx responded this morning. Said to try re-loading the stock tune first then their tune. Problem was I only had the file labeled "custom" in my file list thinking it had to be the correct file....unbeknownst to me it was not...this is where instructions come in really handy.
Brady with SSI also contacted me. Said I should try using my phone as a hotspot to make sure I had a good solid wifi connection. I ran home from work, plugged it in and let it connect to my router as usual and presto! the silly thing began downloading files. It downloaded 2 files. I then kept loading those then the "custom" file still getting the error. Gave up and went back to work. Brady then informs me that the "custom" file isn't the right one and to select the STOCK858IMP file which I had already done not realizing it was the correct file. Guess I should read file names a little more closely as now that I look at it it's pretty obvious. Sigh of relief to that though....was worried I had a bum tuner and would have to send it back. Still have no idea why it didn't download those files yesterday.
Ahh ok, I thought you were referring to the rollers for some reason. The bushing on the SSI helix I just swapped in are the split type. This might explain the 250rpm drop I experienced a couple weeks ago while climbing a hill at full throttle. Had the stock stuff in it at that time. Was jamming up the hill then it just started dropping RPM and settled in on about 7600 the rest of the way up. It's kind of inconsistent even with the aftermarket stuff. I'll get variations of a couple hundred RPM. My old sled was fairly dialed in and very consistent. I'll keep throwing my time and probably more money at this thing until I achieve the results I like....or, give up in frustration and sell it off taking a massive financial hit! Interestingly my guage registered that max RPM was 8400 on my last ride. Never saw it go above 8150, when I was watching it anyway.
Got the tune loaded and went riding today. Definite improvement......20hp in the mid-range improvement? I think not. I never bought that claim anyway. It did clear up my misfire like behavior in the mid, however a new bug appeared or just became more apparent. Happens right at 6000RPM. I'll be cruising along and 6K just happens to be my happy place for slow-mid speed riding. The motor would make an odd change in tone and sometimes feel boggy for a second. Punch it a bit more and it goes away and pulls hard. I did have it bog out on me once when I came out into the open after riding a single track for a good ways. I'm wondering if 6K is where the power valves start opening and maybe mine are getting a bit sticky. It didn't do this the whole day just at various times. The guy I ran into last week that recommended going with the Ibexx tune did say his would load up and bog sometimes if he didn't keep on it. Top RPM did go up. In a few places saw 8300 but I never pinned it for a sustained long pull or anything. Brady at SSI said leave the clutching the same and shoot for 8000-8100. So I'll probably add one more magnet to the heel. This was probably the last ride of the season though.
If they were addressing a lean mid-range condition, it is likely now 'fat' in mid-range that you are experiencing. Better than burning down!
I'm thinking the power valves opening at stage one which is right around 6K is definitely what I'm hearing. Exhaust tone goes lower like when you first fire it up and the valves are opened. I took a look at mine today. Even though the dealer tweaked the bracket for me it looked like it was still a bit out of whack and in fact was rubbing in one spot. Then i pulled the screw out that joins the two valves and the cable together so I could move the valves full opened and closed. They aren't way out of whack but definitely look a bit offset from each other. Kinda doubt this is what's causing issues but maybe it is. Heading out of town for a week for work so I'll be dropping it off at the dealership to have them go through it while I'm gone. Not sure if I'll be able to get it on any snow after that though. I'd sure be curious to ride another one that is supposedly running right so I can compare. I doubt I'm just being overly anal.
That bog your feeling somewhere in the 6000 range I think might be the clutching. I've noticed it when I'm just picking up the pace and then it seems to feel like it's resisting the gradual increase in track speed as if you just added another 50 pounds on the seat.
I think it's the clutch transitioning to over drive and when I let off just a little and casually get back into the throttle and back to the same RPM it's gone like the secondary shifts out a tad and the primary takes up that slight bog and it's goes away.
That secondary has to be one of the heaviest secondaries out there, first time I pulled it I almost dropped. I should of weighed it. That's a lot of flinging mass and I don't understand why they even did that without knowing better.
You mentioned the exhaust valves also, those should be about as exact to each other as possible. Aren't they set at 36.5MM so they are identical or am I overlooking something?
When those exhaust valves get a little gunked up it makes quite a difference on how the engine responds as just an example and that applies to all brands and I'm just mentioning that to point out how touchy those exhaust valves can be.
Does it not seem odd that a 600 has the same problems an 858 is having
Just backing your comment on the crap year we've been having.
Found something flush under the snow while cutting on one ski.
Blew the grade 10 torx bolt head right off , put another 60 miles on before getting out, jammed an undersized bolt in part way since the threaded part of the bolt is still in there.
Found something flush under the snow while cutting on one ski.
Blew the grade 10 torx bolt head right off , put another 60 miles on before getting out, jammed an undersized bolt in part way since the threaded part of the bolt is still in there.
Yeah you're probably right and how you describe it is pretty much how it feels....just something a bit off right in that spot. I'm going to play around with the weight distribution in the primary weights a bit and see if it changes it but it might be more of a secondary issue as you surmise. I think a lot of performance could be gained by lightening both the clutches up. The primary weighs a ton with that steel spider and huge damper ring on the back.That bog your feeling somewhere in the 6000 range I think might be the clutching. I've noticed it when I'm just picking up the pace and then it seems to feel like it's resisting the gradual increase in track speed as if you just added another 50 pounds on the seat.
I think it's the clutch transitioning to over drive and when I let off just a little and casually get back into the throttle and back to the same RPM it's gone like the secondary shifts out a tad and the primary takes up that slight bog and it's goes away.
That secondary has to be one of the heaviest secondaries out there, first time I pulled it I almost dropped. I should of weighed it. That's a lot of flinging mass and I don't understand why they even did that without knowing better.
You mentioned the exhaust valves also, those should be about as exact to each other as possible. Aren't they set at 36.5MM so they are identical or am I overlooking something?
When those exhaust valves get a little gunked up it makes quite a difference on how the engine responds as just an example and that applies to all brands and I'm just mentioning that to point out how touchy those exhaust valves can be.
Does it not seem odd that a 600 has the same problems an 858 is having
The valves don't feel sticky at all so far. I might order the tool kit for making the adjustment myself but for now since it's under warranty I'm definitely taking it to the dealer to adjust it this time.
Ouch! Where were you riding at? I've hit Lost Lake 3 times in the last 2 weeks. It's actually fairly descent up there snow wise. Yesterday was OK. The sun had hit it and there was a crust in most places but it was pretty good. Just the trail going in up Snug Harbor sucks as always and keeping things cool once you hit the single track going up is challenging.
Maclaren, I just happened to be the one to find a flat bolder, I had all my weight on that side and there was just enough snow on top but the face of it was hollowed out underneath, carbide hit, not a mark on the ski.
The A-arms are still straight but that bolt popped off like a ball peened hammer hitting an anvil, PING.
The bolder still wasn't really noticeable till one of the guys collapsed the front of it for others to see.
I grabbed the mic and said Cat down, the group got a kick out of it since we lost a couple the day before
The weird drag spot we are talking about I noticed when it was new but kind of thought it was me at first being to critical but it doesn't seem to matter if it's in marginal snow or on a trail.
I'm enjoying the skid, It takes no effort cutting across angles on one ski while keep the feet on both sides of the running boards. It's so simple that comparing an alpha rail to a twin is just wrong.
There's no need to bank the big drainage areas, just cut the inside corners and watch all the twin rails do the banking
.
The A-arms are still straight but that bolt popped off like a ball peened hammer hitting an anvil, PING.
The bolder still wasn't really noticeable till one of the guys collapsed the front of it for others to see.
I grabbed the mic and said Cat down, the group got a kick out of it since we lost a couple the day before
The weird drag spot we are talking about I noticed when it was new but kind of thought it was me at first being to critical but it doesn't seem to matter if it's in marginal snow or on a trail.
I'm enjoying the skid, It takes no effort cutting across angles on one ski while keep the feet on both sides of the running boards. It's so simple that comparing an alpha rail to a twin is just wrong.
There's no need to bank the big drainage areas, just cut the inside corners and watch all the twin rails do the banking
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The bolt is $7, which is a lot cheaper than a control arm. Think I'll be grinding off the carbide like I did on the 9R.
The bolt came out easy in the spindle. Drilled using 1/8" bit using a hollow collar to center it on the bolt, used heat because of loctite on bolt, easy out.
The bolt came out easy in the spindle. Drilled using 1/8" bit using a hollow collar to center it on the bolt, used heat because of loctite on bolt, easy out.
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I definitely hear and feel the 6000 rpm range tone big also. Mine is bone stock no clutch mods no tuner. As you said I can squeeze the throttle and is goes away. Mine just absolutely rips other than that. Went to Cooke on Saturday and spring conditions this chassis is amazing. It doesn’t wash out I can side hill and do whatever I want.
They said the bolt is on back order till August, LOL.
I posted this below in another thread, the more I look at the blown spindle bolt and lack of ski damage the more sense it makes to have a rigid ski.
It would not have been turned up and would of skimmed over that rock below the snow no different then going across asphalt but that little bit of turned up ski line driven that impact right threw to the end of the spindle bolt.
It would work even better if the rubber was more rigid, these don't even fit the full saddle. The spindle goes beyond the contact point even the way they call for.
It helps keep the ski in front of the spindle from walking the terrain as easily. More positive steering with less arm and shoulder pump. These are really soft but it does make a difference.
I don't know why any of the manufactures haven't addressed it, might be a sales thing, can't sell what's not broke.
There's a company that makes a stiffer bumper but they made them the mimic the stock design so the ski still rocks but not as much.
Munster offers a shim that goes under the rubber for the Doos, it eliminates counter steering. Takes a little work to get the bolt back threw but it does exactly what I'm babbling about. It takes carving to a whole different level, white knuckle speeds.
Once I pulled the skis to counter at a high speed carve and it almost threw me, like throwing out an anchor going to counter steering.
With the skis forward instead of counter with them tipped up it's easy to accelerate while carving without trenching a whole.
Try it in good snow, with them reversed, you'll be surprised and how much resistance you shaved off.
I started making my own for the Hawk because I kept blowing the stocks out. In a way I stumbled into it because I was sick of replacing them every season, can't remember the last time I put a new one in. The ski is so rigid that it does not tip down in the front at all past horizontal. Tipped up just like the Cat pic.
One ski-two skis it'll work the same when your hitting woopdeedoos it won't dart from one side to the other swapping paint
Again skis have long been over looked, there's a few out there now that have made some changes but thier not getting the attention.
Lynx has a ski that will rip your shoulders out, the heel is insane deep.
The ski is to float, why would you want that plank to walk. Think dirt bike, it's also why the snowbikes have steering problems but that's another story
Pics show how rigid the ski is, just sitting it's turned up and does not turn down with all the weight on the end of the ski.
I'm making my own spindle bumpers for the Alpha, as stated a rigid ski floats quicker and has less resistance.
That's a grade 10.9 bolt it should never have blown .
I ordered it from Country Cat, they had it in stock last week. $14 with USPS shipping. Because it is a shouldered bolt, not something you'd probably be able to find at a hardware store. Alternative Impact carries them in titanium if you're looking for something other than OEM.
