Buy new if you can. I have a '15 with SLP Stage II and a pretty much stock '17 MC my kids ride. My stock '18 easily walks away from both zukes. I'm with big dick guy, not proven yet but promising so far. Not sure what the dyno shows but seat of the pants and in the snow show pretty notable difference.
Cat 800 motor vs Suzuki 800 HO
- Thread starter Mjunkie
- Start date
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jim
Well-known member
Everything I have seen is that the Ctec is basically a reverse engineered Suzuki motor. They are both built with very sound principles and engineers have certainly stuck with a conservative approach with simplicity and beefy, heavier components.
And for what it's worth, the Ctec has been through a full year of backcountry riding where I would argue is the toughest, hardest load any motor will ever see. And some have been boosted and modified and have held up very well. And seems less prone to detonation and hesitation/bogs which the Suzuki motor was known for.
I was skeptical of the Ctec living up to the Zuk...but I would not hesitate to buy one now.
And for what it's worth, the Ctec has been through a full year of backcountry riding where I would argue is the toughest, hardest load any motor will ever see. And some have been boosted and modified and have held up very well. And seems less prone to detonation and hesitation/bogs which the Suzuki motor was known for.
I was skeptical of the Ctec living up to the Zuk...but I would not hesitate to buy one now.
Thanks to everyone who gave their input! I feel more confident with the new motor and yeah I know that newer does have a lot of other improvements to look at as well. I also agree that less oil isn’t necessarily a good thing for a 2-stroke. Good thing I always run quality oil. I’m married now with a couple of kids so I can’t spend ALL of my money on my sled (like I use to [emoji17])so I’m looking for pro’s and con’s on the newer to me sleds so I can make an informed case to my wife when it comes time to argue for all that money for a new sled, and the motor is always to me the most important thing.
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One full season is enough for you? Not me. My Axys ran great for one full season too. 4-5 rides into season 2 and it blew up. Same old crappy Polaris motor...
I am not saying the c-tech is going to do this but, the zuke was good for 4000 miles or better in the hands of most riders. If the c-tech proves as capable at racking up trouble free miles 2-3 seasons in, I will be convinced.
Probably a safe bet though to buy the newest you can. There have been very few c-tech failures, and the design is very similar to the old motor as mentioned.
What I do know is that Doo and Poo had some issues when switching over to low oil consumption epa mandated designs. Cat, being the last ones to have to do so may prove to be the best of them. Only time will tell.
I won’t be buying anything new for this season. My plan is to buy before next winter so the cat motor will have a couple seasons on them by then, hopefully it’s as bulletproof as the Suzuki. Thanks again to everyone for all the real world experience! I can’t imagine deciding what new sled to buy without the input of snowesters experience to make an informed choice!
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You might want to wait until next year anyway. With Skidoo and Polaris both touting their new 850 engines, how long can it be before Cat launches a C-tech 850 of their own? Or knowing Cat, they will probably make a 869cc and call it an 850.
Off topic slightly, I apologize, but with all the technological improvements hitting the snow today, I am starting to think I would like to see them resurrect the 700 engine class. The 600s are in the 120 -125 hp class, the 800's in the 150's, the 850s in the 160's. I would have to guess with the new technologies available today a 700 would be in upper 130's to the low 140 hp range?
The biggest thing I would like to see go with that would be a considerable weight savings from going to a smaller engine. Right now the 600 and 800's sleds weight essentially the same. I know it's not economically feasible to downsize the size of the snowmobile to match it's engine size or horsepower, but if they made a 600cc sled 3/4 or 7/8 the size of an 800cc. I think it would be a real kick!
Off topic slightly, I apologize, but with all the technological improvements hitting the snow today, I am starting to think I would like to see them resurrect the 700 engine class. The 600s are in the 120 -125 hp class, the 800's in the 150's, the 850s in the 160's. I would have to guess with the new technologies available today a 700 would be in upper 130's to the low 140 hp range?
The biggest thing I would like to see go with that would be a considerable weight savings from going to a smaller engine. Right now the 600 and 800's sleds weight essentially the same. I know it's not economically feasible to downsize the size of the snowmobile to match it's engine size or horsepower, but if they made a 600cc sled 3/4 or 7/8 the size of an 800cc. I think it would be a real kick!
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im with ya on that. And cat did it before when the M7 came out. 140 horse 700. I think doo's 600 is up to 135 now? it's possible..
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jim
Well-known member
Heck, there have been times when 0 seasons were enough for me...and I bought a first year sled.
Did I regret this at times? Sure. But this isn't exactly a Honda Civic durability sport. Stuff can grenade the first ride out on all new everything in this sport. Part of the deal.
It is just a good indicator IMO...the negatives surface on a site like this and there are guys who put big miles on a motor in one season.
But one has to look at some design facts to have confidence. Big bearings on beefy crank. Check. Similar case design. Check. Same motor configuration. Check. Same company. Check. Decent chance it is OK.
So would I go buy a Ctec if I was in the market? It would be my first choice to be honest (and I have a Cat and Polaris sitting in my garage too, FYI). And why? Based on what I said above. Could it blow up first ride or even at 500 miles? Absolutely. Will that stop me from this financially loony sport? Nope. Too much fun to pass up.
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715sledUP
Active member
Was the TKI worth it on your 16 vs the stock case and the 20/50 gearing? What chain did you have to run for the 20/50? Thanks
Motors
I hope cat builds a true 900 cc engine.
What's the sense in this 840-850-860 crap??
The 900cc bigbore kits work very good and also seem to be realible at 180-200hp.
If cat would build a 420-430 lb sled with a 900cc motor that was around 180 hp they'd sell a lot of sleds next year.
I hope cat builds a true 900 cc engine.
What's the sense in this 840-850-860 crap??
The 900cc bigbore kits work very good and also seem to be realible at 180-200hp.
If cat would build a 420-430 lb sled with a 900cc motor that was around 180 hp they'd sell a lot of sleds next year.
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MountainCat1
Well-known member
Cat could bring back the 1000 in a C-tec design!
one thing that hasn't been brought up is that the 800 ctec2 is very similar to the 600 ctec2 that came out in the 2014 with the exception of the larger piston/cylinder/crankshaft and the cylinder side valves. the oiling system on the 800 is the same as the 600 which i haven't heard of any problems.
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killerrf
Well-known member
Maybe a low boost turbo from factory. Seems these 5-6 psi boost setups have been working good. But a new refined 1000 would be awesome too.
On year 2 of the new engine I don't see a 850 in the near future. The only way it may happen would be if they can bolt on new jugs and use the same bottom end. I heard they tested different engine sizes while developing the 800 so maybe. Both Polaris and Ski-Doo built new 850's from the bottom up. I think Cat would do the same.
I can see them adding a turbo with 0 or very low boost at sea level and adding boost as you climb in elevation to maintain a constant hp. Like they have done in the 4s the tech is available.
Back to the 850 really the C-tec is pretty close in power and with the Alpha improvements the sled is more than competitive. I dont know if Cat could survive the Polaris or Doo 850 issues. Doo really took a chance with a new chassis, new clutch, and new engine. It worked out pretty good over all but they had a few issues along the way.
I can see them adding a turbo with 0 or very low boost at sea level and adding boost as you climb in elevation to maintain a constant hp. Like they have done in the 4s the tech is available.
Back to the 850 really the C-tec is pretty close in power and with the Alpha improvements the sled is more than competitive. I dont know if Cat could survive the Polaris or Doo 850 issues. Doo really took a chance with a new chassis, new clutch, and new engine. It worked out pretty good over all but they had a few issues along the way.
This comment has aged well!
