M1200, need some help!

[JSCC]

Here is my setup for an o7 m1200 with origanal ecu programing. 3000 0 0 0 5000 2 2 2 6200 4 0 0 6500 4 0 0 6850 0 0 0 7250 5 10 12 7850 10 20 35 45to46 pounds fuel 40/34 helix with green sno pro spring in a torsoinal setup 4 67.5 dalton adjustables with about 4 grams added in each one dd130/330 primary spring 046 belt dd1200 pipe ypipe and barker can small timing key that comes with kit and two base gaskets pulls 7600 to7850 at6000 to 7500 elevation air fuel gauge reads 12 to 12.2 Have rode this at 2000 feet also without touching the cntrl box 500 plus miles on origanal belt and has never missed a beat. Hope this helps.

Two base gaskets huh? Did you do that to raise port timing, or drop compression?

 

[JSCC]

I had similar issues with my '07 with the '08 reflash right in the same area 6800-7250 as you are mentioning. I don't know if you have the reflash sticker on your box stating the update? I had to pull fuel from 6800 while adding quite a bit to the 7250 and a gob at 7500 rpm in the high setting only. If I added fuel to the mid setting it would make it even worse. I initially thought the throttle being at 3/4 throttle would made more effect at the mid setting but I was wrong. I now got my sled tuned pretty good after a grueling process and can't believe how I'm running -2 on my high setting at 6800rpm yet around 5 on the high setting at 7250 and 18 at 7500rpm. I thought they would have to transition more, but that reflash really screwed up how much fuel was added around the 6800rpm area. I only have the BDX intake and SLP exhaust with VForce reeds, but it sounds like a tuning issue your struggling with as well. I did find that my sled required quite a bit more fuel pulled at 6-7000ft elevation than my tuning settings at 800ft base locally. I keep one map that things are setup and working good and a second I tinker with only one or two rpm points at a time, that's how I managed to work the bungs out with my A/F gauge helping out, I learned to trust those numbers, you should too before you melt down again. That 6800rpm is affecting you alot more than you probably think it is, I was surprised and thought once I was over 7000rpm I was in the clear, but it adds alot of fuel everytime you let off at WOT. Good luck!

Its funny you mentioned that, I noticed this just the other day. If I was off just a little in the 6800 range, I could not even get it up into the 7000 range. Once I got the 6800 range decent, I could get it into the 7250 range, but once there I could not get it to run there or above....
I agree on trusting the AFR, learned the lesson the hard way. And this after two turbo sleds both tuned with AFR gauges.

 

[ddbigcat]

All the d@d 1200 stage 2 kits come with two gaskets. They are used if you are under 8000 feet.

 

[Woody67]

interesting read. I have this set up on an 09 and started with the oiginal 07 numbers DD has on their site. Way too rich everywhere for the 09 map. But what I find interesting is except for 5k settings I can move the fuel quite abit either way in the other settings and it will change the afr and the runnability somewhat but it will still pull hard through the rpms. What I am saying is I can run 5s across the board at 7250 and as low as 20s at 7850 and it will still rev and run good. change it up to 15s at 7250 and 35s at 7850 it will still pull right through no problem. I have only played with this kit on a couple 09 models but neither of them would be affected by a few points from 6k up to make it not pull RPMs. I have what I think is a good setting but played with it a bit early on to get good AFRs through all ranges and I just can't see it being a boondocker setting but I could be wrong. As for the 2 base gaskets it makes it safer below 8K feet. I run mine with 1 (per Glenn Hall) with 2 gallons of C-12 to 8 gallons of premium 40-1 APV oil. 600 miles very happy with it.

 

[JSCC]

Good to know about the double gaskets. I run over 8000' and have one installed.
MBMS, I apreciate your input. I tried a Pure Logic box today just to verify that it was not the Boondocker Box. Same thing happend. No matter how much fuel I give it, it still will not run up, and is showing lean conditions. I checked fuel pressure while I was reving it up, and It holds an even 43 throughout the RPM range. I also messed with the TPS while it was running....no change.

What about the Stator? What would happen if it is going out?

 

[Klimbing Kitty]

I could be wrong but I think MBMS told me when I was having issues that either the stater works or it doesn't. If it stops working your machine would have to cool right down before it would possibly start up again. I could be wrong but I think that is what he told me.

 

[Woody67]

JSCC this is hard to diagnose online. I did a locator and it looks like Mountain Magic in Preston ID is close to you. Those guy know their stuff and should be able to diag it with a quickness. Give those guys a call.

 

[scmurs]

JSCC,

I believe your problem probably lies in how the cylinder head has been re-cut for the 1200. The D&D motors that I have seen just recut the squish band ( too widen the bore ) and not the bowl of the cylinder head. This makes the squish band too wide and it is not at the proper angle for a turbo application. I would suggest contacting Jeff Meidinger at Dakota Performance, phone # 701-452-4212. He has a lot of experience with getting the port timing and head correctly matched to turbo 1200's as well as naturally aspirated ones. He tests his set-ups in Cooke City and has done probably about 50 turbo 1200's and even more turbo 1000's.

scmurs

 

[JSCC]

Thank you for both of those numbers guys. I do know Travis and Garr up at OVS, and talked with Garr last week about it. It should be in route to him today or tomorrow. I wouldnt doubt that they can look at it and figure it out quickly.
Thanks for all the help!

 

[shawn gerrie]

All I can say is I know the feeling! My buddies 1200 will not pull rpm, same exact symptoms, sled ran great as a 1000 with all the goodies, put a 1200 with pipes etc and 3 different shops can not get it to run. Tried power valve block offs etc. no luck. The thing works fine @ 2000 ft with 75g weights, take it up to 6-7000ft and will only pull 7000 rpm... even with 65g weights. Help!

 

[JSCC]

Well boys, I think I have found it. Take a look at this picture and let me know what you think.....
I will put it back together here shortly. I need to blow off a little steam first!

 

[Gaz]

Wow...How in the hell did that thing even run with timing that far off. Second, how does that even happen? I wouldn't say that I'm the most experienced mechanic in the world but you pretty much know when the keyway isn't where it's supposed to be.

 

[JSCC]

Now which way does the key go in? The offset towards the back or front of the sled? Menosmart!

Fug I am still pissed! I need a or two

 

[hatchers]

here is the parts fiche, im not sure it will help....and im clueless as to how you can stuff the key out of the key way???...the guy who sold you this sled knew it did not run right

http://www.babbittsonline.com/pages/parts/viewbybrand/3/ArcticCat.aspx

 

[scmurs]

Is that really where the timing key was??? I can't believe that thing even ran....

I'm having a beer for you at this point. Good luck man.

BTW, OVS and Dakota Performance have been working together for a while now. You will figure this one out. Keep track of your resources.

scmurs

 

[minet]

says front is advance /shrug

http://www.arcticchat.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14335

 

[JSCC]

here is the parts fiche, im not sure it will help....and im clueless as to how you can stuff the key out of the key way???...the guy who sold you this sled knew it did not run right

http://www.babbittsonline.com/pages/parts/viewbybrand/3/ArcticCat.aspx

Hatchers, that aint no sh!t! I dont know how he did it either!

 

[hatchers]

http://www.arcticchat.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14335

Great thread, so it appears the shaft is tapered….this would explain how it was installed wrong…well not really, the guy is simply not mechanically inclined and screwed JSCC, not cool!

Best of luck to ya JSCC, when we riding the dunes

 

[JSCC]

Is that really where the timing key was??? I can't believe that thing even ran....

I'm having a beer for you at this point. Good luck man.

BTW, OVS and Dakota Performance have been working together for a while now. You will figure this one out. Keep track of your resources.

scmurs

Yes, that was really where the key was. ****in unbelievable! I still don't know how it ran that far advanced! Thanks for the beer!


And yes, I owe a bunch of people a crap load of gratitude!
Everyone on this post, thanks so much for the post, the pm's, everything. I don't ask a lot of questions, but man it's great to have such a resource as this to help us out!
Special thanks to Garr and Travis at OVS. These guys rock! If you have an issue with your cats, turbo or not, these boys know them well! Thanks Gents.
And another thanks to Jeff at Dakota. I know he was working with Travis on trying to diagnose this. Smart man and needs some props!

And another thanks to my riding partners for putting up with me on a 600! It was a little different coming from a turbo sled, and them having to wait on me.

Anyhow, the sled runs great! I will get it on the hill in a couple days and see how it really runs. But a couple passes down the field and she was screaming!

Thanks again,
Jed.

 

[JSCC]

Great thread, so it appears the shaft is tapered….this would explain how it was installed wrong…well not really, the guy is simply not mechanically inclined and screwed JSCC, not cool!

Best of luck to ya JSCC, when we riding the dunes

Hahaha, just got the sled running and I have been thinking the same thing! Might make a bike trip to Knolls this weekend....

I think our first trip will be easter, unless we make a guys trip down for a day.

There is no way he did not know the sled did not run. I am glad that I found out Subman was the original owner. Atleast he was able to shed some light on how the machine actually ran at one point!

Thanks Hatchers.