M1200, need some help!

[JSCC]

Well here it is. I traded my Turbo Apex for a 1200 in hopes to make it my next big sled. Made the trade in a parking lot so no run time, and it looked great and sounded fine..............

Over 40 hours into it including a new top end I still cannot make this thing run, even on the stand.
Here is what I have done: New pipe temp sensor, reprogrammed Bd Box, new top end, different air sensor, different Servo motor, checked and double checked cables, fuel as much as the Bd box will give, took fuel away (hence the top end), Ran diagnostics at the dealer, oil delete kit, tried a different computer...... Fuel pressure is at 43ish psi. Reeds "look" good. Infact everything looks good!

It will start up and run fairly decent until 6500ish rpm, or if I hit it fast it will rev good up to around 7300ish. With out the clutch I got it to hit 7800ish today, but throw it on the stand and 7100. If I go slow it hits around 6800rpm.
40+hours into this and I am lost. A month of my season gone from a bad trade. I would sure like any thoughts or suggestions.
Here is what it is: 07' M1000 with a D&D1200. Pipe and can. BDX intake and oil delete. Other stuff not relative.

Anyone?

 

[mnsledder]

I have a similiar issue, 09 m1200 and I can't get over 7,100 rpm's. If I'm at a dead stop, and I give full throttle, it will jump to quick 7500ish. After that it continues to cut out and not maytain high rpm's. Any recommendations on this?

 

[Comp 670]

Get rid of the servo motor...Get some supreme tool valves with the little black box the eliminates the servo.If the valves are too spendy,just lock the stockers open and only buy the black box to take the servo off without having the sled go into limp home mode.

Also,try a different brand fuel box.If you stick with the BD box make sure it's grounded to the engine and chassis very well.A bad ground causes havoc with the whole system.

 

[mtn_extreme]

Dumb question but is 2 injectors enough for that big of bore, are you getting enough fuel on top end?

Just a guess,

MX

 

[Comp 670]

I don't know about a BD box but the other ones show you the duty cycle of the injector as you ride so it would be easy to see if you are running out of fuel.For sure something to look at.

 

[m8magicandmystery]

i would pull your power vaalve cables and hold them wide open (vise grips etc) and then check...i had similar problems...only with my STMs...one power valve had a hole in plastic cap on air bellow on one STM...do you have a det sensor on that..??..if so could that be acting up..??

 

[JSCC]

No deto sensor on the M1000. I have made sure that the valves are opening. I did pull them open with vise grips just to be sure, but?

Electrical?

 

[ccpowder]

Pipe design?? This is what the old triples used to do at elevation.

 

[9071000]

sawe symtoms as my modded 1000.changed the wiring harness and shes fine.

 

[JSCC]

I took it up today to try a little tuning.
I am thinking I am not getting enough fuel at top. The Bd box is telling me that it is giving the signal to the injectors, but I dont think they are either flowing enough fuel on the top, or they have issues. This would make sense since when I would unplug the Bd box it would act just the same.

Anyone know how to test the injectors?

 

[tm8]

I took it up today to try a little tuning.
I am thinking I am not getting enough fuel at top. The Bd box is telling me that it is giving the signal to the injectors, but I dont think they are either flowing enough fuel on the top, or they have issues. This would make sense since when I would unplug the Bd box it would act just the same.

Anyone know how to test the injectors?

Can you flood the motor out at idle? That's a good way to mmake sure the box is working sounds like it isnt.

 

[mtn_extreme]

Might have to change fuel pumps to a high flow pump and add 2 more injectors.

 

[JSCC]

I am at 60% duty cycle on the injectors, it still has alot of fuel they can flow if they are working correct.

As for idle, yes I can, and I can also make small changes throughout the rpm range, just cannot add enough fuel on top, no matter how high I turn the box up.

 

[1100Cat]

Run a 1200 big bore on the stock injectors and pump no problem. Using the speedwerx y-pipe,can and 1000 pipe which works better at higher elevation than the 1200 pipe. The 1200 pipe does well below 3000feet but really suffers at higher elevation(will not pull the rpm up top). Ride 65-8000feet so the 1000 speedwerx pipe really shines compared to the 1200 pipe. Granted this is for the big bore I am running the D&D may be a different case and need the bigger 1200 pipe on it. Have the bd box extremely rich for insurance and huge clearances on the wiseco pistons. So far it pulls the 174 with no problems and makes well set up M1's look silly. Will pull hard with a straight shift curve right to 76/7700 rpm all day long. Change my first belt at 400miles just because change my gear ratio so wanted to start fresh. Running 56/64's now which is a must do on any M to start is to gear them lower. Also do not let the 174 length fool you as I will never look back to a smaller track. I run this thing through tighter trees and turn it easier than when it was a 162. So all you guys considering the 174 do not hesitate as it works just as well or better for me in every aspect of my riding. By no means am I strictly a climber either I like the technical tree riding that the big track just allows me to get through the trees better than the 162. Guys I ride with run the 162 on the M1000 and can not beleive how the long track stays on top in the tree's. They are trenching alot more when the technical tree riding starts to get steep.

It sounds like you tested alot but have you done a compression check at elevation,leakdown test,checked the port timing/porting or tested the stator. Is the D&D kit infact using the 1200 pipe and what stage of porting and have you ever spoke to Dale/Glenn at D&D to get their thoughs.

Keep us updated on results and testing. Hope it works out in the end for you.

 

[JSCC]

Thanks Bud.
Since this is a new to me sled, I am having to figure it out pretty much on my own. It is also my first Arctic Cat, so I am a newbie there as well.

It does have the 1200 pipe and can on it.
I have not checked to port timing.
I have not done a leak down either. Compression yes.....
These are some good points I need to look at.

It's a pretty crazy deal, as the sled sounds wonderful in the midrange. Just hits a wall and dont want to climbe higher.....

I wonder what a stock pipe would do on this sled?

 

[subman]

m1200

i thank you have my old 1200 i can help i had it runing grate... mark

 

[Klimbing Kitty]

So is your BD Box reflashed for a 1200.? What are your top #'s 16 16 16 - 32 32 32. Which belt are you using 060 046? I get about an extra 3 to 400 RPM's out of the 046 . Your stock fuel pump should definitely work. Although I did have a pump pack it in the other day for no reason just idleing out behind he shop??? I am around 45 psi on fuel. What is your fuel mix? 4:1? 5:1 what octane? Oil mix 40:1?? I had valve deletes on mine and they were ok but went back to power valves. Still want to try STM's. Mine will hold a solid 7600 with blips up to 7750.

 

[JSCC]

Subman thanks for all your help. Funny how a one owner becomes a two owner......

Kitty, this sled will not run up top. I dont mean will not pull rpm's, I mean will not run up top at all. 6800ish and she is coughing and sputtering.
Fuel pressure is right around 43psi.
046 belt, but it dont matter as it will not run even with the clutch off the sled.
91 octane with two gallons of Sunoco 112.
Oil mixed heavy right now for new top end 32:1
Top numbers have varied from 20-115 with no change.
If I change the 7250 numbers, I can effect how it runs around the 68 range to some degree. I cannot get it to run in the 72 range for long enough to get a reading on AFR. But when it's close is shows really lean. 13.8-14's at full throttle.
I know I have the valves perfect at this point. I took them out and cut them perfect, made sure the adjustment was perfect, and double checked the servo was good by testing it with another one. I can also hear them open, so we are good there.
Either this is a fuel issue, or an electrical issue......I think, lol!

 

[Sparx]

I had similar issues with my '07 with the '08 reflash right in the same area 6800-7250 as you are mentioning. I don't know if you have the reflash sticker on your box stating the update? I had to pull fuel from 6800 while adding quite a bit to the 7250 and a gob at 7500 rpm in the high setting only. If I added fuel to the mid setting it would make it even worse. I initially thought the throttle being at 3/4 throttle would made more effect at the mid setting but I was wrong. I now got my sled tuned pretty good after a grueling process and can't believe how I'm running -2 on my high setting at 6800rpm yet around 5 on the high setting at 7250 and 18 at 7500rpm. I thought they would have to transition more, but that reflash really screwed up how much fuel was added around the 6800rpm area. I only have the BDX intake and SLP exhaust with VForce reeds, but it sounds like a tuning issue your struggling with as well. I did find that my sled required quite a bit more fuel pulled at 6-7000ft elevation than my tuning settings at 800ft base locally. I keep one map that things are setup and working good and a second I tinker with only one or two rpm points at a time, that's how I managed to work the bungs out with my A/F gauge helping out, I learned to trust those numbers, you should too before you melt down again. That 6800rpm is affecting you alot more than you probably think it is, I was surprised and thought once I was over 7000rpm I was in the clear, but it adds alot of fuel everytime you let off at WOT. Good luck!

 

[ddbigcat]

Here is my setup for an o7 m1200 with origanal ecu programing. 3000 0 0 0 5000 2 2 2 6200 4 0 0 6500 4 0 0 6850 0 0 0 7250 5 10 12 7850 10 20 35 45to46 pounds fuel 40/34 helix with green sno pro spring in a torsoinal setup 4 67.5 dalton adjustables with about 4 grams added in each one dd130/330 primary spring 046 belt dd1200 pipe ypipe and barker can small timing key that comes with kit and two base gaskets pulls 7600 to7850 at6000 to 7500 elevation air fuel gauge reads 12 to 12.2 Have rode this at 2000 feet also without touching the cntrl box 500 plus miles on origanal belt and has never missed a beat. Hope this helps.