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Zbroz/skinz vs timbersled front end

D

Dirt Digger

Member
I have the timbersled front end and it works good. Are these new +3 or +4 a-arms really that much better that timber sleds setup? I have read and read looking for a true review with not much luck. Are they worth another grand or should a guy stick with TS? Thanks Hope it snows this sucks.
 
dirt digger
right now I don't think you are going to get a very fair review of any front end kit with the bashing that is going of the skinz new kit in a different post. it is a shame the skinz company has had a serious issue with their kit right out of the box because I believe they along with Zbros are moving in the right direction reguarding fixing the geometry issue with the nytros front end. now we will have to wait and see how Skinzs will handle this setback and if their fix will work long term. from what I have been reading they have stepped up and are taking care of it as any good company should.
I am very happy with my TS front end kit but have been very interested in the Skinz kit because it does address the geometry issue. All of the kits have had their issues in the past. I am just glad that companies out their are willing to step up and address the short coming of the major manufacturers. this gives us consumers a choice and that is great.
Happy New Year guys
 
dirt digger
I believe they along with Zbros are moving in the right direction reguarding fixing the geometry issue with the nytros front end....

I am very happy with my TS front end kit but have been very interested in the Skinz kit because it does address the geometry issue. All of the kits have had their issues in the past. I am just glad that companies out their are willing to step up and address the short coming of the major manufacturers. this gives us consumers a choice and that is great.
Happy New Year guys

just curious.. are you thinking that because of the forward movement, that may be causing the weak points? (if in fact they do have a "weak point") and have you read anything telling you how zbroz is going about fixing their little set backs? it seems like skins is doing a good job at dealing with people from what i see here. i think maybe too many people are jumping the gun on skinz. but i just havnt seen anything pop up about the zbroz fixes yet. im sure they are providing replacements, but just wondering if there really is any issue on the strength of the product. but it seems like a lot of people may have done this years "reviews" on possibly sub-standard snow conditions.
 
I have the TS front on Mine.I ordered a Zbroz Front.
What are the isues with the Zbroz? I havnt heard of any other then the Polaris set up?
 
Hey Sledsniper
I was just referring to Zbros having an issue. I have only read the issue that was brought up in the Polaris forum. I am not sure how many front ends Zbros have sold to Yamaha owners because it is a relatively new kit as well. Please let all of us know once you have installed their kit and have had some seat time on the new front end.
Hey Mister907
Geometry can work for you and against you. it can generate stress points where there wasn't any before if all the parts don't work together and carry the load together. By moving spindle geometry forward, it may have caused a stress point right on the hiem joint but I really think it's too early to tell. From what Allen at TS said it might be a little undersized for the application which is odd because Skinz did not have any failures while they were testing. Lets all give skinz a little time to address and learn from the new data that they have received from people who are having issues with their kit. You may be right about people jumping the gun on the skinz kit. That point is certainly debatable It just goes to show you how many people are trying to fix a known handling problem with the nytro and how many people are willing to take a chance to make them better.
Since the nytro front end geometry is more vertical in nature to other sleds and there is more weight up front it produces twitchier and/or unstable steering charactaristics. Once you move the skies forward you lessen the vertical nature of the front end as well as distribute the weight over a larger area. I think MTDream over on TY (his is over here too) is correct in saying that the nytro is a balanced sled until the rider with gear jumps on it. I think by moving the front geometry of the skies forward you bring the balance of the sled back to where it needs to be. so that is why I am interested to see the reviews after people are able to get out and really ride regardless of which front end kit they have on their sled.
From the sounds if it MIster907 you may be right in regard to the Zbros front end issue with the Polaris boys but it sounds like some people were having issues with the Skinz front going down the trial which suggests that there is a stress point on the heim joint. If in fact there is a design flaw (NOT SAYING THERE IS) the issue will most certainly reappear in the next weakest point which would most likely be in the hiem connection to the a-arm itself in the form of broken welds and other things like that. I just wish there was more snow around so that people can go ride and report the good, the bad, and the ugly on the new front end kits. It will also be interesting to see if Yamaha themselves pick up and redesign the front ends after seeing the reviews come in form the aftermarket. they have been tweaking the geometry slightly ever since the 08's have come out
Happy new years guys and have a safe season
 
zbros kit

I just installed the Zbros kit on my 09 Nytro Turbo. I went out last weekend for the first time and wow what a new fun sled to ride. I have the CR steering post mod also and a 2012 timbersled kit with fox float evol x. I hit some HUGE whoops this weekend and it just ate them up. The side hilling was very easy and it whips around easy. Feels like riding my wires 800xp 163 now. I have 174" track on it also. The only thing I can say bad about this kit is when I unloaded it from my sled deck from the first ride the bottom a arm where it mounts to the spindle the lock nut came off. Scared the hell outta me as I had just been going 100+mph before I loaded it. Everything was torqued properly so not sure why it came off new parts ordered on warranty and when I install them I will be drilling the balljoint and putting in cotter pins. All in All I love the Zbros front kit combined with the new 2012 Timbersled with quick adjust rear winning combo in my book.
 
i totally understand about the geometry thing, i just didnt think about it until you pointed it out. and ya, i guess it is only the polaris guys i read about with the zbroz problems. but, i dont think anyone said they hit anything hard, and with the added nytro weight, you might need some good riggin to limp out if it did "fold". believe me, i know that stuff happens, it happens to me a lot, but most of the time i get screwed out of any help from most situations, and if i had the chance to read info based on real user accounts, i might have made different choices. it does seem like both companies are addressing the issue well. which to me is the most important part. so its still a tough choice for me.

if anybody wants to send me both kits to test out... ive got plenty of snow, just send them up, ill swap em and test ride both of them in a weekend, and let every one know how well they work in 6-8 feet:face-icon-small-hap:face-icon-small-hap....but it may take all year for me to "compare" them.:face-icon-small-hap:face-icon-small-hap
 
We had our Nytro Black on the snow for the first time today and even though the snow was marginal, (about 2 feet of wet heavy snow) there is a night and day difference between how this sled worked before and after the conversion. The sled actually responds to your input now instead of fighting it or in some cases just doing it own thing and totally disregarding what you want it to do. Kind of like a parent/teenager relationship. For example, you want to go up the hill and the sled just wants to go down, and if you dont do what the sled wants it just rolls over on it side and spits oil out the intake. I think anyone who has ridden a Nytro in stock form knows what I'm talking about. Of course there is more to the Black than just the Skinz front end, but the combination of modifications that goes into a Black are so far proving that a Nytro MTX can be more than a glorified forest road runner or a point and shoot sled if you boost it. Hopefully the weather will improve and we can get some more seat time on this sled soon.
 
I just installed the Zbros kit on my 09 Nytro Turbo. I went out last weekend for the first time and wow what a new fun sled to ride. I have the CR steering post mod also and a 2012 timbersled kit with fox float evol x. I hit some HUGE whoops this weekend and it just ate them up. The side hilling was very easy and it whips around easy. Feels like riding my wires 800xp 163 now. I have 174" track on it also. The only thing I can say bad about this kit is when I unloaded it from my sled deck from the first ride the bottom a arm where it mounts to the spindle the lock nut came off. Scared the hell outta me as I had just been going 100+mph before I loaded it. Everything was torqued properly so not sure why it came off new parts ordered on warranty and when I install them I will be drilling the balljoint and putting in cotter pins. All in All I love the Zbros front kit combined with the new 2012 Timbersled with quick adjust rear winning combo in my book.

You're not the first one to have had the problem with the lock nut coming off, friend of mine had the same issue a the end of the season on our last ride last June. He was lucky that he wasn't going fast.
 
never really had too much trouble with gettin her to do what i want... until the stock bushings went out that is. waiting on a collar sleeve to get the 2012 arms finished. no big diff compared to the 08 im sure, but ill be riding again!
 
You're not the first one to have had the problem with the lock nut coming off, friend of mine had the same issue a the end of the season on our last ride last June. He was lucky that he wasn't going fast.
Thats good to know. I will be drilling and cotter pinning everything!! I got lucky thats fore sure.
 
VERY IMPORTANT!!

I emailed and Phoned ZBros Racing in regards to the lower lock nut coming loose and falling off. He said they know that there is a problem and that they have a new line of nuts coming in. They suggested I drill and cotter pin all of them. I'm hoping they step up to the plate make some improvements "pre drilled holes and lock nuts that work" and ship them to customers who purchased this unsafe system. I just don't want to see anyone crash cause I'm sure it would be a bad one without steering. I'm shocked they haven't sent letters or done something because they know there is a problem. They might have but i have not seen anything. When mine came loose it gouged the inside of the spindle so hoping they will be sending me a new one. I will keep you all posted.

When this kit was installed it was an AMAZING RIDE what a diff in handling. Just feel they need to back up the product and fix the flaws!
 
Rode revvy the last 3 days in lots of fresh untouched snow with the new z-broz +3 front end really happy on an off trail. Rode alot of tight trees an sled was easier to handle it didnt seem to take as much effort to get her over an carve uphill or downhill etc.. Im usually spent after throwing it around for 3 days but i feel like i can ride a couple more.. On the trail it felt alot less twitchy on the straits an it railed the corners with ease an had less ski lift..
I'll keep an eye on the lower balljoint nuts but i know mine are nylock nuts an ive never seen a nylock nut back off..

A pic of what we rode in awesome conditions :face-icon-small-hap

P1010423.jpg
 
The original nytro front suspension works well in fresh powder, but when it gets heavier or less powder the suspension seems more and more unstable.

Tested the new SKINZ suspension in some hard packed powder, i KNOW that this is not something the original suspension likes!

WOW! This SKINZ suspension WORKS!!!
All the unstable and twitchy feel is gone!

No kidding, it`s like going from looking like a noob to a pro.

So this 3.5/4 inch forward have an amazing effect! And this is not something that the Timbersled have.
 
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Got to ride my 09 T Nytro this weekend with the new Skinz front end (it is red and pretty Christopher :smile:) and there is a definite improvement over the TS front end that was on it as far as handling. For the record, the TS front end was a huge improvement over stock. The sled will now make a turn back into the hill where before it wanted to push and keep going downhill. It seems to want to roll over easier but I also went from a 42" front end back to 39". The snow was far from good with about 8" of powder over a hard crust so it was kind of tough riding when you break through the crust. Handled well on the trail which was really rough on Sunday. I do not consider myself to be anything above an average rider, if that, so hopefully this may help some of the less skilled riders out there. My front end has the updated 5/8 Heim Joint. Also, I was very pleased with my TS front end, just wanted the better handling. Talked to the people at TS several times and they have been more than helpful every time I called.
 
I am glad to see that we have people with both the Zbros front end as well as the new skinz front giving their impressions of what they like and the small problems they have incountered as well. I for one always get a little skeptical when i only hear the good reveiws without any nagetive things being pointed out. there is always an upside and downside to everything. keep it up guys it sure helps the rest of us.
 
I've got about 400km on the zbros +3. Night and day difference from stock. Still using stock shocks in stock mount holes and no issues. Only thing was I bent one of the top ball joints first day out, hit a rock, ski stoppend and bent the top ball joint forward. $40 replacement but then found out there was already an update for heavier ones for the same price. Other than that, no issues...except they could have made them in colours other than gray, and not put that orange sticker on them.
 
Have got some more time on my Skinz front end and here are a few more observations. It is easier to handle in the powder and while boondocking. It will roll over easier than the TS front end I had before but I also went from a 41" back to 39". On a ruttted trail it is not great. Rode all day Friday off trail and followed the groomer down the hill at the end of the day. There was 4 or 5 sleds in front of me on soft corduroy. I would get my skis caught in their ski tracks and had a hard time getting out of them. Unfortunately we all have to be on the trail sometimes. The TS front end was definitely better on the trail IMO. Am trying to learn to sidehill again (not good at it to start with) I am having a tendency to pull over to far and get the track out of the snow too much and get stuck. Rolls up on one ski much easier.
 
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