Your tax dollars under Obama.
- Thread starter Ollie
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if all of you guys have all these answers why aren't you on the ballot? You seem to know all the solutions!
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Ollie
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If they don't like it, then they should move to another country. There are many people that would step into their place rather quickly.
A flat tax rate is actually regressive. 15% tax rate for someone that makes 25k a year effects them more than a 15% tax rate for someone that makes 250k a year.
No it doesn't. It affects them both equally. The quality and type of stuff they buy wil be radically different, but it would be 15% regardless.
They will also spend more on luxuries in a year, than you will in your whole lifetime.
EXACTLY. They will go out and by a million dollar home. The builder will then contact his subs to supply the lumber, windows, labor etc. That is the basis of trickle down ecomonics that Milehigh is so set against. Because it does work. It isn't fast and there is no "jump start" but it does work. Even the most liberal dems were force to admit that.
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Ollie
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if all of you guys have all these answers why aren't you on the ballot? You seem to know all the solutions!
Pony up the dough and I will run in a heart beat.
uhh let me translate this... what O'Ruffy is basically saying is he is for socialism.
what do you mean you have no way of knowing which system works better?? what a crock! oppression whether it be by taxes, laws, larger government...never works for the "People" period. capitalism is great in the hands of honest men... so yes it has its flaws and needs oversight but faaarrr less oppressive than socialism(which imo only leads to tyranny). obama is DEFINITELY A SOCIALIST!!! are you for socialism??? just a yes or no answer will work but im sure you will pull the all spin zone again.
Your argument is taking the extremes, mine wasn't. I was stating that those that make a lot of money benefit from our society more. They shouldn't be taxed to death, just a little more than joe regular dude. You take my stance to the extreme, which I am not for.
So a clarity question. Do you view the current government as capitalist or socialist? Oh, and you are fired as my translator... poor form!
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European Levels Of Taxation: Under Obama's Plan
Here's a little light reading for my liberal amigo's.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/wm1973.cfm
Here's a little light reading for my liberal amigo's.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/wm1973.cfm
I would say that it affects them equally from the point of 60-70 k a year on up or maybe a little lower. But for those around 20-30k in suburban areas (higher cost of living, trying to make sure we are comparing the same thing) the tax would affect them more in a negative way. I am talking simple things, like means of educating the children, providing for them, giving them opportunities. They are more likely to stay in the same position economically, because it is tougher to break out.
I think the difference between trickle down economics and I guess socialism as it is called (I think that is a little extreme, but whatever) deserves a new thread. I don't know that much, and I have not seen much in the means of data or proof here that would say one way or the other is better.
Here is a thought. Who has more to loose by not providing the needs of society? Joe millionaire or Joe dirt?
no i am not fired.. as if you would agree and be objective
...you cant defend obama and at the same time say your not for socialism... imo it is incongruent. if that statement is totally fallacious then i accept the termination papers.and as i figured you didnt asnwer my questioin. im not sure and perhaps you can inform me here but i think something like the top 5% pay 90% taxes. if that is true why tax them more? they will just stop investing and pull their money out or just sit on it.
judging by policies and trends i would say emphatically that we have a socialistic government and it is getting worse... that is my concern regarding obama. but who am i to say... it appears that the masses want to be dependant on the government.
There are many country's where this has been proven, Denmark for one Dropped the corprit Tax and they are Booming!! so it does work.
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How long can we feed of our self's? We need to Produce things not spend OUR money on Ourself! Thats how u make things happen not the GOV Creating jobs by spending TAX money.
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NO I am not for pure socialism. NO I am not for pure capitalism. I am for some where in between, which is close to where we currently are.no i am not fired.. as if you would agree and be objective
In your eyes Obama is a socialist, but that is the extremists point of view because he is for more government programs than what you prefer. You say I am either this or that, but the world is not black and white and neither are my viewpoints. They tend to be in the middle somewhere muddled around.
Yes your numbers are close;
So the top 50% pay 96.03% of the taxes and get 86.19% of the income. It would be interesting to see what the total numbers are in income and taxes paid for that top 50%. I am curious as to what it would show. The reason why they won't pull there money out and just sit on it, is that there is still money to be made. If they all pulled there money out, people would take there place (supply and demand would work here) and put money in as a reduced profit is better then no profit at all.
judging by policies and trends i would say emphatically that we have a socialistic government and it is getting worse... that is my concern regarding obama. but who am i to say... it appears that the masses want to be dependant on the government.
I am sure there are some socialists that would argue otherwise about our government being socialistic. Is there even a word that describes being in-between? Or is that just a liberal democrat?
Here is a question. If society were to fail, who has more to loose, Joe millionaire or Joe dirt?
Here is an interesting link. Lots of information and statistics about taxes too much for me at the moment.
NO I am not for pure socialism. NO I am not for pure capitalism. I am for some where in between, which is close to where we currently are.
In your eyes Obama is a socialist, but that is the extremists point of view because he is for more government programs than what you prefer. You say I am either this or that, but the world is not black and white and neither are my viewpoints. They tend to be in the middle somewhere muddled around.
Yes your numbers are close;
So the top 50% pay 96.03% of the taxes and get 86.19% of the income. It would be interesting to see what the total numbers are in income and taxes paid for that top 50%. I am curious as to what it would show. The reason why they won't pull there money out and just sit on it, is that there is still money to be made. If they all pulled there money out, people would take there place (supply and demand would work here) and put money in as a reduced profit is better then no profit at all.
I am sure there are some socialists that would argue otherwise about our government being socialistic. Is there even a word that describes being in-between? Or is that just a liberal democrat?
Here is a question. If society were to fail, who has more to loose, Joe millionaire or Joe dirt?
Here is an interesting link. Lots of information and statistics about taxes too much for me at the moment.
alright i got it now and it finally makes sense... your a utopian socialist. that i can live with and would encourage but that isnt what obama is. obama is for CONTROL of the distribution of captial, land etc where as a utopian is for VOLUNTARILY doing it. big difference!! so my arguement is not the extreme case it is dead on.
as to your question regarding who has the most to loose i dont have time to extrapolate at the moment but i will possibly tonight... but for a quick answer i would say both. explanation forthcoming...
Those that benefit the most should pay more than those that don't, as they are getting more benefits from the government than others.- so one could argue that those on welfare and other government help, ie Farm Bill, should be paying more.....
I am starting to think that there is an abundance of people on snowest that make more than 250k a year.... and happen to view those in the middle class as lazy or inept.-I've thought this, but hey we all drive 10k plus sleds every couple of years so it's gotta be so.
If you make it legally, it's yours-well what if I make it illegally can't I still keep it? Maybe off shores or something?
aaron is affluent lets tax the hell out aaron. nevermind the fact that joe isnt smart , motivated, creative(and by way of those qualities... is where he is financially) etc... screw all that... lets level the mystical playing field.- what if aaron got that way by fudging the numbers, playing in gray areas and screwing over the joes of the world? Then what? Or what if aaron coasted in on his grandpas hard work ethic?
I am starting to think that there is an abundance of people on snowest that make more than 250k a year.... and happen to view those in the middle class as lazy or inept.-I've thought this, but hey we all drive 10k plus sleds every couple of years so it's gotta be so.
If you make it legally, it's yours-well what if I make it illegally can't I still keep it? Maybe off shores or something?
aaron is affluent lets tax the hell out aaron. nevermind the fact that joe isnt smart , motivated, creative(and by way of those qualities... is where he is financially) etc... screw all that... lets level the mystical playing field.- what if aaron got that way by fudging the numbers, playing in gray areas and screwing over the joes of the world? Then what? Or what if aaron coasted in on his grandpas hard work ethic?
There are tooooo many big words in that sentence!!! Remember, most of us here are rednecks, even if some don't like to admit it.
there aren't any rednecks around here....
if all of you guys have all these answers why aren't you on the ballot? You seem to know all the solutions!
not enough peopel agree with me to get me on the ballot. When i hit 35 I will glady run for president if teh people of snowest get me on the ballot...remember I have an open office with beer fridge policy.
joe millions would have more to loose if society ended as we know it. Joe broke has much less to loose...at least in terms of material things. One oculd argue that if both Joes have shelter and a loving family, ie priorities in line with most of snowest, then neither would be adversly affected by the end of society as we know it.
Yes those numbers are close, but the top 5% also have something like 97% of the wealth (money).
They can't just stop investing their money. They would lose to much. The people with that much money can literally live off of the interest they make.
Part of the problem is the rich do not spend enough money (how they got rich). Middle class and lower class spend money because they have to. Take a guy that make $30k a year. He is probably spending all $30k throughout that year. Take a guy that makes $500k a year. He is probably spending $100k. Maybe more, who knows but it is not linear.
I would have to research Denmark but is is really an Apples to Oranges comparison. What works in one place does not mean it would work in another.
I bet Denmark has socialized healthcare.
Iraq is a perfect example of this.
Western and Eastern societies are both different and have different needs. Europe is really much different than the U.S.
We would be producing things, we would be fixing necessities. The roads and bridges in the U.S. are in need of a major overhaul. The jobs would jobstart the economy. Fixing these things is something we need to do anyway.
