You just have to shake your head.

[Ollie]

up around Beaver Creek Yukon ...the gov is spendin tons of cash to find out how to stabilize a road that is constantly moving because of all the permafrost under it full of tropical plants and dinosaurs bones ..

what part of cycle doesn't anybody get

From what I have been able to find out and what I have read the backers of global warming and it being mans fault look at the trends as flat lines.

If the trend is hotter, that must mean it will continue to get hot.
If the trend is cold, then it must mean it will get colder (as they said in the 70's).

They seem incapable of looking at it as a cycle. One that goes up and then goes down. There will be extremes of each along the way. The climate of Earth has been changing since it was created. It has seen ice ages and it has seen the world turned into a tropical zone.
This is nothing new.
The only new thing is man and the arrogance of the ones that think that man in the relatively short time can change a cycle that has been going on for billions of years.

 

[ruffryder]

Enlightening read. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,351590,00.html

Oh come on, enlightening from fox news, complete trash......

Typical they show no cause and effect just a bunch or random info tied with emotional strings of words.

Green energy czars in control of demand side management of energy usage, get real. They don't even know how or what demand side management is except that the "greenies" will control it. Yah, just like the control everything else........

So do biofuels increase the price of food? Yes

So do biofuels cause people to starve? I have no idea why they wood.

From article

Food riots also broke out in Egypt, Cameroon, Ivory Coast, Senegal and Ethiopia. The military is being deployed in Pakistan and Thailand to protect fields and warehouses. Higher energy costs and policies promoting the use of biofuels such as ethanol are being blamed.

"When millions of people are going hungry, it’s a crime against humanity that food should be diverted to biofuels," an Indian government official told the Wall Street Journal. Turkey’s finance minister labeled the use of biofuels as "appalling," according to the paper.

The solution for millions of people who are going hungry is to kill the million people, not give them free food all the time. So food is being diverted from being given out for free to being used as a fuel? Sounds good to me.

Are biofuels the answer to our energy needs? Probably not.
Do biofuels play an important role in determining our energy future? I would say they play a part.

So back in America, with higher fuel prices already, won't that lead to higher food prices. Kind of like everything else that is getting more expensive (inflation!). I am curious at what point the blame will be put onto OPEC for the starving people in other countries that don't have any food.



Sorry, struck a nerve, but if your continent does not have the ability to feed itself, well, you are getting to the end.

 

[H2SNOW]

From what I have been able to find out and what I have read the backers of global warming and it being mans fault look at the trends as flat lines.

If the trend is hotter, that must mean it will continue to get hot.
If the trend is cold, then it must mean it will get colder (as they said in the 70's).

They seem incapable of looking at it as a cycle. One that goes up and then goes down. There will be extremes of each along the way. The climate of Earth has been changing since it was created. It has seen ice ages and it has seen the world turned into a tropical zone.
This is nothing new.
The only new thing is man and the arrogance of the ones that think that man in the relatively short time can change a cycle that has been going on for billions of years.

here here

and did you say CREATED ????? lol

 

[Slick]

Man is certainly about the only animal who is arrogant and self absorbed enough to think that their actions can alter the course of the universe.

And Polzinhunter; what the hell do homos and tree huggers have in common that you'd include them in the same statement about climate change ?????[/QUOTE

do you know anyone else trying to convince the world its our fault! and can't a guy "rant" a bit! sorry if i confused you!

No sweat, rant away.

 

[sldgy]

up around Beaver Creek Yukon ...the gov is spendin tons of cash to find out how to stabilize a road that is constantly moving because of all the permafrost under it full of tropical plants and dinosaurs bones ..

what part of cycle doesn't anybody get

Chit I know the cause for the shifting road. It is all them homo's tapping their freaking feet in bathroom stalls. Now send me my cash.

 

[Dare-Ya]

Oh come on, enlightening from fox news, complete trash......

Typical they show no cause and effect just a bunch or random info tied with emotional strings of words.

Green energy czars in control of demand side management of energy usage, get real. They don't even know how or what demand side management is except that the "greenies" will control it. Yah, just like the control everything else........

So do biofuels increase the price of food? Yes

So do biofuels cause people to starve? I have no idea why they wood.

From article


The solution for millions of people who are going hungry is to kill the million people, not give them free food all the time. So food is being diverted from being given out for free to being used as a fuel? Sounds good to me.

Are biofuels the answer to our energy needs? Probably not.
Do biofuels play an important role in determining our energy future? I would say they play a part.

So back in America, with higher fuel prices already, won't that lead to higher food prices. Kind of like everything else that is getting more expensive (inflation!). I am curious at what point the blame will be put onto OPEC for the starving people in other countries that don't have any food.



Sorry, struck a nerve, but if your continent does not have the ability to feed itself, well, you are getting to the end.

That's just it Ruffy. Greenies preach to man about changing to help the climate, but they themselves are not willing to change. No wind turbines in my backyard. No nucleur power plants in my state. No clean burning coal plants near me. No new refineries. No drilling in Amwar. So we try ethenol, which in turn raised the price of food. All these things have a cause and effect, whether you like it or not.

 

[ericbigbore]

Wanna see another example of global warming? Go to the Washington thread and look at the "did they hire R&R to clear hwy 20" thread. This was a week ago.

 

[jimmy buffet]

The way i understand it is that the water (oceans) are the real cause of weather. currents, wind and so forth. studies have shown no temp change in deep levels in the oceans. temps have stay consistant over the years.

the earth is round, (so they say) so if thats true, what goes around comes around. like what others have said on here already. its been going on like this for years and years, its all happens in cycles. will all this happen again. i think so. ice age, flooding and so on. they should worry more about water. levels are going up, but very slow. wont happen in are life time or our kids but citys along the coasts will be under water.


i like the comment on the co2, i remember it kills the o zone

 

[cmantle1]

To Ollie....

i didnt intend to say i was right ur wrong. From the your original post i got the idea that u were saying how can people think theres a fire danger in the summer with a good winter? obviously i misunderstood you.....i think we can all agree on climate change, wether man plays with it or not.

 

[Ollie]

To Ollie....

i didnt intend to say i was right ur wrong. From the your original post i got the idea that u were saying how can people think theres a fire danger in the summer with a good winter? obviously i misunderstood you.....i think we can all agree on climate change, wether man plays with it or not.

Rats. I was looking for a good fight
Just kidding.
I just posted it cause I thought it was funny.
No matter how good something is, the global alarmist can find a negative.

 

[ruffryder]

That's just it Ruffy. Greenies preach to man about changing to help the climate, but they themselves are not willing to change. No wind turbines in my backyard. No nucleur power plants in my state. No clean burning coal plants near me. No new refineries. No drilling in Amwar. So we try ethenol, which in turn raised the price of food. All these things have a cause and effect, whether you like it or not.

kind of confused, I agree about the above wrt greenies, but I am having a hard time believing that biofuels make people starve.

It sounds like nonsense and a way to discredit biofuels more than anything.

 

[Flying Snow]

Its a cycle the end

 

[ruffryder]

Its a cycle the end

Wouldn't that also be the beginning then?

 

[Ollie]

kind of confused, I agree about the above wrt greenies, but I am having a hard time believing that biofuels make people starve.

It sounds like nonsense and a way to discredit biofuels more than anything.

ok, heres the arguement. wow, this thread took a left turn. oh well, still good.

American bio-fuels (E-85) is primarily made from corn. The arguement is that farmers will plant corn to sell for E-85 and thus crow less of everything else. In order to make enough ethonal (sp?) to supply the entire country corn would become the predominate crop. Thus less of everything else and driving up the cost and causing a shortage of other food types. Plus they say there is not enough corn produced in the country to make enough E-85.

And yes, I think it is a way to discredit biofuels. I read an article somewhere that said the enviromental movement has changed cource a little. They have decided to make fuel SO expensive that people will change just to save money. Thus they don't want more refineries, more production and lower costs. They also don't want biofuels.

As for the riots in the middle east.
As the American dollar takes a dive the cost of inporting food stock from the US goes way up. This combined with the extra costs associated with shipping the food over there has caused the price of food to jump as much as 140% in the last year. Since America is a major food exporter the week dollar makes it more expensive everywhere else. As countries such as Iran laugh at the high cost of oil (they of cource make lots of money when that happens), they are not laughing at the associated cost of everything else going up.

 

[H2SNOW]

isn't that nice .....soon i will be paying a buck 60 for diesel and everybody wants to know why everything is gettin more expensive ...

we aint haulin for free sooo some where somehow we gotta curb the price of fuel

 

[ruffryder]

American bio-fuels (E-85) is primarily made from corn. The arguement is that farmers will plant corn to sell for E-85 and thus crow less of everything else. In order to make enough ethonal (sp?) to supply the entire country corn would become the predominate crop. Thus less of everything else and driving up the cost and causing a shortage of other food types. Plus they say there is not enough corn produced in the country to make enough E-85.

You are right, it is not the end all fuel. But the direction to getting ourselves off of imports is through diversification.... not sure what part ethonal plays.

Didn't realize that we export so much grains. Kind of shocking.... why don't we have a corn embargo.

Some info

grain exports

another one

us and food shortages

 

[Mafesto]

Before we get into th same old "ethanol causing grain shortage" rhetoric, let me remind us all that we still compensate the farmers to keep land out of production.

 

[Ollie]

Before we get into th same old "ethanol causing grain shortage" rhetoric, let me remind us all that we still compensate the farmers to keep land out of production.

Don't get me wrong, i think it is a total BS argument.
I was just answering ruffryder's question as to what all the hype was about.
We (the US) are only producing about 40% of what we can. Farmers are paid to leave fields unplanted. Something to do with field viability or something. Not my thing, don't really know.

I think the price of food stock going up has more to do with the cost of fuel and the lower US dollar than anything else. But hey, it gives the "no biofuels" crowd something to cry about.

 

[Mafesto]

Don't get me wrong, i think it is a total BS argument.
I was just answering ruffryder's question as to what all the hype was about.
We (the US) are only producing about 40% of what we can. Farmers are paid to leave fields unplanted. Something to do with field viability or something. Not my thing, don't really know.

I think the price of food stock going up has more to do with the cost of fuel and the lower US dollar than anything else. But hey, it gives the "no biofuels" crowd something to cry about.

I'd like to give them something to cry about!

 

[H2SNOW]

heres the deal ..Farmers weren't gettin squat for their efforts .....ethanol paid more ..

farmers start producin corn and canola get paid more ..now there aint enough grub to feed us ...just wait about 8 months ...flour is already triple ! just in the last month

does this not concern anybody ?????