Yeti vs TS weight

[summitboy]

Cmon Rush. How can you have a comparison when there isnt even a single production kit on the snow ? While i dont represent Yeti in any way i do believe it will work as good if not better than a TS. What do i know maybe it will be a flop ? The C3 guys have really done some things that Timbersled cant even comprehend imo. For a first kit they are in another league !

Competition is good so lets get it on the snow and see !

 

[Rush44]

Hey I agree wholeheartedly about the competition thing. The problem, the way I see it, is we've been hearing how VASTLY better the Yeti is over the TS. So if it's that good why can't they show us? If they didn't say how amazing it was I wouldn't be harping over this silly video.

And I'm sure we can both agree that Yeti has had the benefit of TS's production items to build the unit to what it is today. They didn't have to conceptualize it nor convince the public that a snowbike rocked... TS did that part for them.

Edit: And by conceptualize it I also refer to the snowbike in it's current form. I understand the snowbike existed in many other forms before, but the current market owes itself to what Timbersled has created.

Yeti certainly hasn't half-assed their snowbike attempt unlike some other players (cough sneeze Arctic Cat cough puke laugh).

 

[summitboy]

Im not sure how the Yeti will work in the snow to be honest. I dont have one. I can say its engineering is way above a current TS kit. It comes apart so easy, clicks together if you will. They have many great ideas. For some those ideas will make it desirable even if it gets beat by 1/2 a length.

Will it dominate on the snow ? I have no idea. What is dominate ? 1/2 a length ? Handle better ? Think its different for each and every individual. The video tells you more than u think imo. Not slagging TS here, i had a TS kit. Been there done that. Nice to have change.

And please lets not forget that TS didnt invent this sport. They merely made it better as will other mfgs and individuals.

 

[summitboy]

I believe some of the advantages of the Yeti are (in no particular order):

Eccentric chain adjuster
Weight
Ergonomic bumper
Belt drive
Brake that works (havent personally tried just word of mouth LOL)
Integrated cooler (option i believe)
No snow up your backside, intake, boots etc
Local for Canadians

Timbersled has stuck with its design for years. Its simple and it works. Weight is/has been crucial to this sport because of the bikes lack of power. Lets hope the kits get lighter and the bikes get 80hp !

 

[TillTheEnd]

I really think weight is being overthought here, how it works on the snow is way more important. I rode a 13/15/16 MY TS on 450's back to back last spring and the refinement was undeniable in every aspect from handling to acceleration, getting on top of the snow ect. I know that even if the 13 kit weighed 25#'s less it still wouldn't have worked as well overall. And if TSS does what I think it will(get some weight off the ski and give it a true dirtbike feel), I'll give up that 30lbs and then some....

 

[teal_210]

Hey I agree wholeheartedly about the competition thing. The problem, the way I see it, is we've been hearing how VASTLY better the Yeti is over the TS. So if it's that good why can't they show us? If they didn't say how amazing it was I wouldn't be harping over this silly video.

And I'm sure we can both agree that Yeti has had the benefit of TS's production items to build the unit to what it is today. They didn't have to conceptualize it nor convince the public that a snowbike rocked... TS did that part for them.

Edit: And by conceptualize it I also refer to the snowbike in it's current form. I understand the snowbike existed in many other forms before, but the current market owes itself to what Timbersled has created.

Yeti certainly hasn't half-assed their snowbike attempt unlike some other players (cough sneeze Arctic Cat cough puke laugh).

Randy says it all here:

https://youtu.be/iuxjCWR0ic4


What more do you need to see or hear.

 

[mountainhorse]

The comparisons that are important to me, that will be answered this year, are:

Durabilty in the hands of the user?... a broken bike is No Bueno regardless if it's lighter.

If it is broken... What kinds of breaks will be common?
What cost and lead times are required to get it back on the snow?

Also... which I've brought up in another thread...and there are lots of posts and almost 1000 views on... I've heard a lot of talk about how a belt drive is an "upgrade"... I'm not convinced that they are and see no solid evidence that they are or are not.
http://www.snowest.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3862526

ALL the current snowbike offerings have a chain drive in them.

The primary drive on all snowbike kits is a chain.
The secondary drive is where the difference is... chain secondary... belt secondary.

How much less efficient is the belt-drive (or more efficient) as a secondary drive?

How much heavier is the belt-drive (or lighter) as a secondary drive?

How difficult/time-comsuming is a secondary cover to remove to inspect?

How many people have broken (not worn out) a secondary chain on a 2015 kit?




Everything can break...EVERYTHING.

In the video with Randy... He talks about snowbikers crashing into each other and tweaking a tunnel side...

What is the repairability cost and method of one bike compared to the other if a part is "tweaked" so bad it cant be used?

The real test for performance will be on the snow this year... when the brand new offerings, on the EXACT same bike from each company are directly compared.

The real test for durability will be NEXT year... when the 2015/16's show up for resale.

I think that the only way for that to happen would be for the mfgs to spend a weekend on the same fleet of STOCK bikes...same length kits... and switch out the riders in the same terrain... changing locations and types of riding... with an independent monitor.

A new CMX or Yeti kit that is compared to a 5000 mile clapped out, 2011 TS has no value... nor does a comparison with different bikes, riders, track lengths or states of tune.


.

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

I really think weight is being overthought here,

As a 155# rider who rides with guys who are on average 30-40#, if not more, heavier then I am, I can tell you that it DOES matter. I will always go higher, get away with more as the true power to weight ratio of a rig should include the rider, and I can tell you that dropping 30+ pounds off is seriously impressive in how much farther and easier you go.

Hell, even though a 300ktm is only like 10# lighter then a 450, but just the decrease in rotational mass makes them ride SIGNIFICANTLY different.


I guess im just talking because im sad im not out riding yet. Stoked to get my hands on a yeti and ride with one once the snow flies.

 

[mountainhorse]

Chain

tillbuilt..
Which chain are you referring to? Are you including the Primary chain in that weight or simply letting us know that the chain is installed in the secondary drive?

I got some more weights done last night. All weights are complete kits with a standard hard tail fit kit, ski, spindle, and chain.

2016 SX 120 : 130lbs

 

[summitboy]

I see we keep talking about durability and strength. I know there are a lot of skeptics about the carbon fibre etc, not many understand this new material. I see Yeti does some neat testing such as the hammer tests and they even show a forklift pulling up on the tunnel and twisting the tunnel via the bumper. Someone should post up a video of the 2016 TS doing the same tests with the same forces. Why just have a on snow comparison, lets really look at durability ! Wonder how the kits stack up against each other ? Thoughts ?

As far as the belt vs chain talk goes i highly doubt there is one single person in this entire forum that can explain the efficiencies correctly. There are so many dynamic variables etc. I found some guys who deal with electric cars and they did some testing and found the belt was more efficient than the chain when testing for range. They said the chain is prone to things like dirt, corrosion, sprocket size etc. They noted from a small set os sprockets to a larger set a 16% in efficiency change between the two sizes with the same chain. I think we will see some dyne testing soon between this belt drive and the same drive with a chain. Will be interesting to see the figures.

 

[backcountryislife]

Randy says it all here:

https://youtu.be/iuxjCWR0ic4


What more do you need to see or hear.

Hard to take someone serious when they say "you don't trench because the tail is so light".... um, no.
Someone who actually believes that is hard to listen to.

 

[M5-]

Carbon fiber isn't new at all, we were using it 30 years ago building windsurf race boards in combination with Kevlar. The main reason most guys don't know anything about it is because its so expensive. When building stuff out of Carbon you need all kinds of crap like molds and vacuum bagging etc etc, its typically not a DIY kind of thing although it is much more accessible than it used to be. In the rules of F1 the nose cone of the car is required to take a 60 MPH hit and have no damage, solution, carbon fiber. Its a compressive material, the resins in the layup are just as important as the cf is. Durability WILL NOT be an issue.

M5

 

[J&L Snowhawk]

Didn't they run them at that big hill climb last spring side by side for comparison sake?
I do think it's funny most of the comparisons are being made against 2015 or older kits.
I have our new kits and must say I like what they have done.

 

[summitboy]

Kinda hard to do a side by side when there isn't a production kit out until now. Have to make do with what we got LOL. I'm sure the minute the snow is on the ground the reviews will funnel in. I think you will be surprised !

 

[Mtn. Muncher]

There is no denying that there will be some good advantages to the Yeti being 25 lbs. lighter then the Timbersled. The improvements made to the 2016 TS linup are the largest we have made over the years.
- New TSS fit kits.
- New long arm pivoting rear suspension.
- New Convex 2.5" lug track.
- New more efficient chain drive system.
Only a few people last year had the privilege to ride our new kits coupled with the TSS (Timbersled Suspension Strut). The people that have ordered this combination are in for a very big surprise once they hit the snow with them. The feel of true long travel rear suspension and a coordinated dirt bike feel is undiscribable. It will be a grate day once customers have riden them and post there testimonies.

 

[Corban_White]

tillbuilt..
Which chain are you referring to? Are you including the Primary chain in that weight or simply letting us know that the chain is installed in the secondary drive?

The TS kit comes shipped with a new primary chain. I would guess this is what he is referring to.

 

[TillTheEnd]

There is no denying that there will be some good advantages to the Yeti being 25 lbs. lighter then the Timbersled. The improvements made to the 2016 TS linup are the largest we have made over the years.
- New TSS fit kits.
- New long arm pivoting rear suspension.
- New Convex 2.5" lug track.
- New more efficient chain drive system.
Only a few people last year had the privilege to ride our new kits coupled with the TSS (Timbersled Suspension Strut). The people that have ordered this combination are in for a very big surprise once they hit the snow with them. The feel of true long travel rear suspension and a coordinated dirt bike feel is undiscribable. It will be a grate day once customers have riden them and post there testimonies.

Right On! Brig on the TSS I could care a less how high my snowbike climbs I want it to rip the trees, pop wheelies and do tailwhips like my dirtybike. I rode and evaluated prototype bikes, sleds, atv's for years and I can tell you that weight doesn't always determine what works better....It can be quite the opposite. Now the rotating mass and power to the ground that's a different story...

 

[mountainhorse]

The TS kit comes shipped with a new primary chain. I would guess this is what he is referring to.

Are all of the kits... CMX, YETI MotoTrax, TS.... being weighed with the primary chain for an apples/apples comparison?

When they are weighed, are they all weighed without accessories (eg, fuel can etc?)

I agree, on a mountain machine, weight is important, it ties in with many other factors that make for better function and better experiences for the rider.
In the lightweight category alone... the YETI, with its carbon/epoxy construction, is the hands down winner... I don't think that anyone will argue that.



.

 

[mtn-doo]

The biggest downfall with belt drive is getting stranded. The belts need "perfect alignment". Even a small amount of flex in the kit will spin a belt off. We have limped more bikes out of the back country than I can count with smashed in covers, twisted front ends, and severely out of alignment. They all slowly limped out with chain and sprockets not even close to alignment. The bikes get ridden so hard in the toughest conditions that damage is guaranteed. TS weighed the consequences of stranding bikes and riders with damage and decided the security and reliability of the chain was worth way more to the customer.

 

[summitboy]

Randy are you talking about the Yeti belt drive or TS failed attempt at belt drive stranding people ? Or belt drive in general ? How could u possibly know whether the Yeti will strand people or not ? Just because your product didnt stand up to your testing doesnt mean someone else cant do it better. Yeti converted a TS kit to belt drive but the kit was so flimsy u could squeeze the belt with your hand and watch the shafts change position.

Yeti tested a 15mm wide belt on a 610 turbo with a 3" track and zero issues. The production belt is 21mm wide. The belt takes 5800lbs of force to break or 6gs of acceleration. These guys brought a belt engineer from Mitsubishi to test with them. This aint no backyard home grown kit.

Who could possibly know if this belt drive will or will not work. It could be a epic failure or it could work. Time will tell. So TS says belt drive is no good ! Better stick with a TS kit fellas.