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What? No gloom and doom about Wall St.

Ok, I think we all agree this stinks on many many levels.
We are here, it's the past and there is no going back.

To Bail out or not to bail out? This is not a simple answer. It is so complex it's way over my head.

My gut says heck no, my brain says probably yes!!:confused:
For me it's an issue of perspective. My next comment is only for a point of referrence not a political position.

In the past 5 year in Iraq we have spent 500+ Billion and over 4000 U.S. lives alone. Not to mention all deaths. We value lives very highly, so what is the true cost???

My point is; We can do something that might be able to stablelize our economy and even the world economy to a large degree.
Just because no one died or thousands of peoples lives are not taken away doesn't mean we shouldn't do what we can.


Again, I'm confused:confused:
Even though I don't agree with helping with reckless self inflicted problems, you pretty much summed it up. They better get this one right or we are F'd.
 
Some of this goes back to Socialism. "Some poor people can't realize the american dream of owning a house, so lets put things in place that strongly encourage the banking system to loan money to risky people so they too can own theor own home" SUB_PRIME!!!!!

Everytime I looked @ home loans/refinance, it was always a matter of "you can afford more house, based on your income/expenses"

Way too many people were too greedy (keep up with the Jones'), company Leaders way overpaid and our politcal leaders from both sides let it happen.
 
One thing that really PIZZES me off is we have people in the GOV that SAW THIS happening and did NOTHING!!!:mad: They should have told us " They are buying bad papper" If they told us that long ago it would have stoped. But most in the GOV where to busy getting THERE pocket filled to care.:mad: NOW we are all on the hook AGAIN because of a small group of A-HOLES!! Once again the people that work hard and do things the right way get SCREWED!!!:mad:





Also I heard today that they are giving the Auto industry 25B to "Help them modernize THERE plants to produce smaller cars that get better MPG". Again I ask why do I have to pay for that??:mad: They are the ones who "F"ed up and rode the wave now we pay:mad:


I get more and more sick of how this country is run every day:mad:
 
I'm hearing over and over about how this bailout will let those in banking power off the hook...With the debates and modifications happening in Congress and The Senate right now, I really hope this is addressed.

One thing to remember is that a LOT of those in power are already gone...the more banks that either fail or get bought by one of the larger banks, the more of these "fat cats" get weeded out.

Something else to ponder...10 of the largest banks in the world came together and started a fund worth $70 billion as a cusion they could borrow against...here's the list...Ten of the world's largest banks will form a fund with a value of $70 billion, each putting in $7 billion. The banks are Bank of America (BAC), Barclays (BCS), Citigroup (C), Credit Suisse Group (CS), Deutsche Bank AG (DB), Goldman Sachs (GS), JPMorgan Chase (JPM), Merrill Lynch (MER), Morgan Stanley (MS) and UBS AG (UBS).

The idea is that any of the banks can borrow against the fund...but the reality is that this is a way for the larger, stronger banks to assist the smaller, weaker ones in times of crisis...the banks ALL realize that the health of the banking industry and the economy as a whole is dependant of ALL of them remaining in business.

What the gov't bailout is doing is essentially the same thing...by buying the undervalued debt (at a discount) off the balance sheets of the lenders, it makes the whole system stronger by allowing the banks to go back to banking, rather than dealing with this mess.

In the long run, if done properly, the gov't should be able to actually turn a profit while forcing significant regulation as a condition of the bailout.

Again, this is all contingent on the gov't doing something properly!! :rolleyes:
 
The system will fail, we have borrowed too much money and can't pay it back and the rest of the world knows it. $700 billion is a drop in the bucket when all the Alt a and liar loans start defaulting next year. Goodbye dollar and hello Gold/Silver.
If you have any savings go get it now!!!!!
 
I'm hearing over and over about how this bailout will let those in banking power off the hook...With the debates and modifications happening in Congress and The Senate right now, I really hope this is addressed.

One thing to remember is that a LOT of those in power are already gone...the more banks that either fail or get bought by one of the larger banks, the more of these "fat cats" get weeded out.

Something else to ponder...10 of the largest banks in the world came together and started a fund worth $70 billion as a cusion they could borrow against...here's the list...Ten of the world's largest banks will form a fund with a value of $70 billion, each putting in $7 billion. The banks are Bank of America (BAC), Barclays (BCS), Citigroup (C), Credit Suisse Group (CS), Deutsche Bank AG (DB), Goldman Sachs (GS), JPMorgan Chase (JPM), Merrill Lynch (MER), Morgan Stanley (MS) and UBS AG (UBS).

The idea is that any of the banks can borrow against the fund...but the reality is that this is a way for the larger, stronger banks to assist the smaller, weaker ones in times of crisis...the banks ALL realize that the health of the banking industry and the economy as a whole is dependant of ALL of them remaining in business.

What the gov't bailout is doing is essentially the same thing...by buying the undervalued debt (at a discount) off the balance sheets of the lenders, it makes the whole system stronger by allowing the banks to go back to banking, rather than dealing with this mess.

In the long run, if done properly, the gov't should be able to actually turn a profit while forcing significant regulation as a condition of the bailout.

Again, this is all contingent on the gov't doing something properly!! :rolleyes:





Could it be the first time:rolleyes:








.
 
I think we can all agree that we don’t want to do the bailout. That’s not even worth asking. The question is is do we have a choice? If we just let these companies go belly up, it will start an economic windfall that will eventually bankrupt every corporation and individual. In the end even your cash would not be worth anything. Is this the price we want to pay to teach the greedy @$$holes a lesson?

Who on hear is willing watch every single investment you have including your 401k and your home become worthless?:confused:
 
I Deserve it!

Subject: The Birk Economic Recovery Plan



The Birk Economic Recovery Plan

I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in
a We Deserve It Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000
bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman
and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a
We Deserve It Dividend.

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.
So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.
That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.
A husband and wife has $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?
Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.
Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads
Put away money for college - it'll be there
Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.< /B>
Buy a new car - create jobs
Invest in the market - capital drives growth
Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves
Enable Deadbea t Dads to come clean - or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks
who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company
that is cutting back. A nd of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.


If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of
trickling out
a puny $1000.00 ( "vote buy" ) economic incentive that is being proposed by
one of our candidates for President.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S
Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it.
Sell off its parts.
Let American General go back to being American General.
Sell off the real estate.
Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion
We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington
DC.

And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5
Billion is returned
instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.

Kindest personal regards,

Birk

T. J. Birkenmeier, A Creative Guy & Citizen of the Republic
 
Subject: The Birk Economic Recovery Plan



The Birk Economic Recovery Plan

I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in
a We Deserve It Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000
bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman
and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a
We Deserve It Dividend.

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.
So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.
That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.
A husband and wife has $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?
Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.
Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads
Put away money for college - it'll be there
Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.< /B>
Buy a new car - create jobs
Invest in the market - capital drives growth
Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves
Enable Deadbea t Dads to come clean - or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks
who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company
that is cutting back. A nd of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.


If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of
trickling out
a puny $1000.00 ( "vote buy" ) economic incentive that is being proposed by
one of our candidates for President.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S
Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it.
Sell off its parts.
Let American General go back to being American General.
Sell off the real estate.
Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion
We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington
DC.

And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5
Billion is returned
instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.

Kindest personal regards,

Birk

T. J. Birkenmeier, A Creative Guy & Citizen of the Republic



Now that is some fuzzy math ;)......alot of extra zero's there. How about $425?
 
Yep, WAMU is now a "Brand", it was a good ride while it lasted, "welcome to JP Morgan Chase". I didn't expect this, and didn't expect it so soon.

I was hoping to get laid off closer to riding season, my new XP X needs to be abused...badly. BTW, I didn't touch the money, so don't blame me for this! :beer;:beer;:beer;
 
More on WaMu.. Massive withdrawls from teeny tiny accounts killed them. It's called stupid panic..

Seriously, people were in pulling out there money, a couple of thousand at a time. Now why in the hell would you do that? But they did.. and it killed them. Talked with a couple that were taking it to the "credit union". Oh, that's a great idea. A non FDIC protected account.:rolleyes:

Wall Street Journal, Long and Detailed
 
LOL...sledsniper, I dont know who Birk is, but like Winter Brew said,his math skills ore funny as he!!. :D
 
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