Weight balancing

[kidwoo]

I actually disagree with this, Polaris has done a *great* job putting the rider in the middle of the sled with respect to weight distribution.

The ski-doo is terrible, its incredibly ski-heavy and relies on weight transfer to "ride light". Doos transfer more weight to the skid, and in static form (not under power) are MUCH more ski heavy.

One way you guys can mitigate this problem to some extent is to throw scales under your skis and balance the sled this way using preload. Make sure each shock is carrying the same amount of weight.

You're not actually disagreeing with me.


SIDE TO SIDE, the skidoo dun a good thing with motor position, especially if you switch out the heavy stock can. I can't stand the damn front heavy nonsense but that's not what I was talking about.

And you actually backed what I said regarding the polaris: I mentioned leaving my stock can in for that exact reason. It's fairly balanced stock. But if you take that can out, it's over. If they'd centered the motor that would be okay.

 

[turboless terry]

I actually disagree with jj.
The doo is a steering sled. You can drive an xm on asphalt and it steers. The Polaris has to be pointed in the direction you want it or it just slides. With doo moving the motor back on the 850 it is about half way in between. If you were talking about the XM being front heavy or biased, I would agree. The xm will just stuff the front. I call it the skidoo stuff. Then drag fat boards and body and your stuck. Even going downhill. I don't think the 850 does this at all. They moved the motor back the right amount. They also side hill just as easy on the right vs. The left. The 850 rides lighter and steers easier. I guess I don't feel the front heavy at all.

 

[JJ_0909]

I actually disagree with jj.
The doo is a steering sled. You can drive an xm on asphalt and it steers. The Polaris has to be pointed in the direction you want it or it just slides. With doo moving the motor back on the 850 it is about half way in between. If you were talking about the XM being front heavy or biased, I would agree. The xm will just stuff the front. I call it the skidoo stuff. Then drag fat boards and body and your stuck. Even going downhill. I don't think the 850 does this at all. They moved the motor back the right amount. They also side hill just as easy on the right vs. The left. The 850 rides lighter and steers easier. I guess I don't feel the front heavy at all.

Are you riding a stock sled? The sled is "tuned" to transfer weight quickly, both from a clutching/motor standpoint, and a suspension standpoint. This transfer is why you feel the sled is "light" (under power, it is). This is also why a lot of the G4s have been tough to tune with respect to getting power to the ground. Many wheelie like crazy, and the torsion bars aren't exactly easy to tune. (it can over transfer- hence Ski-Doo's reliance on a the limiter)

The easiest way to "prove" what I'm talking about is to take some scales and put them under the skis. Now go do the same thing with an Axys. Do it with and without the rider on the sled at lower RPM.

You'll see the Axys carries the rider weight right in the middle, at the center of transfer, with a very equal amount of weight on the front and back of the sled. Whereas the Ski Doo carries the weight on its skis, fully relying on transfer to get a proper skid-to-ski weight distribution.

I have no brand affiliation, I think all brands make a great sled these days. However, this weight distribtuion is THE reason I went back to Polaris this year. As you noted, its maybe not a big deal when you have a fair amount of low end grunt and lighter clutching. But when your low end isn't there and you are spinning heavier clutching (a turbo sled), you end up wrestling the sled a lot more at lower speed (tree riding, when you screw up etc). So yeah, its going to "bite" more as you are saying (more weight on the skis), but this also means you are applying more muscle to the sled.

You can mitigate a lot of these attributes through a proper suspension setup, letting out the limiter (which creates its own problems) but you can't move the mass of the motor, and this side of new spindles, you can't move the ski position.

Look how many guys love a wider ski on the G4, that too is a good indication the sled is carrying more weight up front.

Anyway, there ya go!

 

[Cummins88]

Are you riding a stock sled? The sled is "tuned" to transfer weight quickly, both from a clutching/motor standpoint, and a suspension standpoint. This transfer is why you feel the sled is "light" (under power, it is). This is also why a lot of the G4s have been tough to tune with respect to getting power to the ground. Many wheelie like crazy, and the torsion bars aren't exactly easy to tune. (it can over transfer- hence Ski-Doo's reliance on a the limiter)

The easiest way to "prove" what I'm talking about is to take some scales and put them under the skis. Now go do the same thing with an Axys. Do it with and without the rider on the sled.

You'll see the Axys carries the rider weight right in the middle, at the center of transfer, with a very equal amount of weight on the front and back of the sled. Whereas the Ski Doo carries the weight on its skis, fully relying on transfer to get a proper skid-to-ski weight distribution.

I have no brand affiliation, I think all brands make a great sled these days. However, this weight distribtuion is THE reason I went back to Polaris this year. As you noted, its maybe not a big deal when you have a fair amount of low end grunt and lighter clutching. But when your low end isn't there and you are spinning heavier clutching (a turbo sled), you end up wrestling the sled a lot more at lower speed (tree riding, when you screw up etc). So yeah, its going to "bite" more as you are saying (more weight on the skis), but this also means you are applying more muscle to the sled.

You can mitigate a lot of these attributes through a proper suspension setup, letting out the limiter (which creates its own problems) but you can't move the mass of the motor, and this side of new spindles, you can't move the ski position.

Look how many guys love a wider ski on the G4, that too is a good indication the sled is carrying more weight up front.

Anyway, there ya go!

Well said, ive tried the G4 and it definetely carries more weight on the skis. Another thing i noticed is the tunnel is 3" wider than the RMK, i feel like im riding a horse when i'm on that thing.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Well said, ive tried the G4 and it definetely carries more weight on the skis. Another thing i noticed is the tunnel is 3" wider than the RMK, i feel like im riding a horse when i'm on that thing.

Exactly.