VW getting pummeled over their lies to the EPA

[milehighassassin]

Thoughts?

Word is they could face up to $18 billion in fines. Kinda crazy, they deliberately coded into their ECU for the car to run cleaner whenever an emissions test was being ran.

CEO just got axed. Their stock as dropped over 25% in 3 days.

 

[go high fast]

Looks like VW will fit in perfectly with F1 racing. Hope this doesnt change their plans.

 

[bholmlate]

Hey got to hand it to the German's for outsmarting the US well that was until they got caught of course. Had to laugh though when i read about possible customer law suites. I am sure a lot of people will take part but the idea of people complaining that somehow they were cheated by their cars having better performance out on the road and would go into limp mode to pass the test. If all hot rodders were so smart I am sure there are a few other manufacturers sweating right now because if one company is using the tech other are as well.

 

[kiliki]

gm got caught doing this same thing with the northstar in the caddy back in the mid 90's. when in park it would pass the test but when in drive a big azz flop. some states started to drum dyno for emissions then it was all over.

 

[inspector01]

Hey got to hand it to the German's for outsmarting the US well that was until they got caught of course. Had to laugh though when i read about possible customer law suites. I am sure a lot of people will take part but the idea of people complaining that somehow they were cheated by their cars having better performance out on the road and would go into limp mode to pass the test. If all hot rodders were so smart I am sure there are a few other manufacturers sweating right now because if one company is using the tech other are as well.

It didn't have better performance on the road, it had the performance they purchased it for, but wasn't gettng the incredibly low emissions they said it was. People were sold on the car because of the idea that they could have decent performance with good gas milage and very low emissions, turns out they only got 2/3rds of what they paid for and are rightfully pissed off.

I do hope they come down hard on them because this was blatantly breaking the law on a massive scale. The only reason it may actually happen, is because they're a foreign company, but I'm willing to bet no jail time for anyone.


BTW, I doubt any others have had to do the same thing, at least related to diesels as MB and BMW both use urea, VW was "special" in that they could pass without urea.

 

[Himark]

I know they broke the US law however, the truth is I believe emissions should be measured by the mileage rather than by the gallon. If you look at the total Nox emissions output of a car that gets 75 MPG -vs- a car that gets 41 MPG you will see less.

This is a FACT, Vw has a 3 cylinder diesel that averages 70 plus MPG and is not available to us in the US. You have to ask why?? well I tried to import them and through long talks with import emmission testing shops and govt forms I found it to be a impossible task.

This is all about big oil politics.

 

[boondocker97]

I think it's funny they were doing what diesel truck drivers have been doing for years now. Let it run and get better mileage and performance! I also think it's kind of a slap in the face to the EPA for not being competent enough to catch it themselves! Pretty simple test to check for compliance in normal driving conditions IMO.

 

[milehighassassin]

I think it's funny they were doing what diesel truck drivers have been doing for years now. Let it run and get better mileage and performance! I also think it's kind of a slap in the face to the EPA for not being competent enough to catch it themselves! Pretty simple test to check for compliance in normal driving conditions IMO.

Diesel truck manufactures were sued and fined successfully a few year back for the same thing.



The bottom line is this move gave VW an unfair competitive advantage over other manufactures and deceived their customers. I'm not sure what the solution is. Sure VAG will pay a ton in fines and possible criminal proceedings for it was intentional. But Joe consumer loses out. What happens when a new flash is forced on the customer and they lose MPG and power? Is that fair that they bought one car and ended up with another? Sure you can say I just won't take my car into VW to get this update done. Hope you don't need warranty work done. VAG will not allow any warranty work to be done until this update is completed.

Could you imagine if Polaris or Ski doo did this? The environmental groups would be losing it. Because it was "green" VW with their TDi motors people are kinda turning their head.

VAG recently hired the law firm that represented BP in the Gulf Oil spill.

 

[volcano buster]

How did VW get caught in this in the first place? I think I missed that part.

Also, there are comments that the Gov't lost 51 Million Dollars on Fuel Credits. What happened the pile of cash the Gov't lost on Solyndra and nobody seems to care?

 

[mold]

Too bad they got caught. Makes me want to hurry out and get one before they gather them all up and screw everything up that made them great.

 

[Bocephus]

How did VW get caught in this in the first place? I think I missed that part.

i have not heard how, but i can guarantee the epa didnt catch them. they were tipped off by one of the big 3 in the US. the big 3 engineers were curious HOW this foreign company was making an engine with good power, good ecomony, and meeting emissions standards......................so someone dug into it and found out the truth.


i think its hilarious. i would like to shake the mans hand that engineered this and said "F YOU EPA"

 

[boondocker97]

It was a university in North Carolina I think doing a 3rd party test. So a bunch of college kids.

 

[yamahajohnson220]

Sounds like to me that I should be buying vw stock while its cheap.

 

[milehighassassin]

They were caught by West Virginia University doing testing for the EPA. This has been a year in the making. Happened over a year ago, VAG has been in discussion with the EPA and they finally agreed to come clean. Rumor has it that BMW is also being investigated for the same deal.

You cannot rush out and buy a NEW TDi. There is a stop sale on all new ones for the rest of 2015 and all of 2016. If a VW dealer has a used one, they are prohibited from selling it. You can buy one private party or from a non VW dealer. Hard to say how VW will force the update. You won't get warranty work until it is done, thats for sure. There is rumor that the states will step in and prohibit license renewals without proof of the update.

Aftermarket tuners are going to have a field day.

 

[Pro-8250]

They are only sorry because they got caught. Like others have said. No one will go to jail and the lawyers will make billions and the little guy got screwed.

 

[go high fast]

Spoken like a true lib. VW is also guilty of entirely mishandling situation. They should have said that based on their interpretation of emissions regulations the software was perfectly suited to this application and that they should be commended for reducing emissions in this way without sacrificing performance of their automobiles. Kudos to VW for using such sophisticated technology in this way. VW should be recognized globally for their commitment to a green planet. Clearly a technological leader in the industry.

 

[dgibbons]

Spoken like a true lib. VW is also guilty of entirely mishandling situation. They should have said that based on their interpretation of emissions regulations the software was perfectly suited to this application and that they should be commended for reducing emissions in this way without sacrificing performance of their automobiles. Kudos to VW for using such sophisticated technology in this way. VW should be recognized globally for their commitment to a green planet. Clearly a technological leader in the industry.

Huh?

 

[polaris dude]

I know they broke the US law however, the truth is I believe emissions should be measured by the mileage rather than by the gallon. If you look at the total Nox emissions output of a car that gets 75 MPG -vs- a car that gets 41 MPG you will see less.

This is a FACT, Vw has a 3 cylinder diesel that averages 70 plus MPG and is not available to us in the US. You have to ask why?? well I tried to import them and through long talks with import emmission testing shops and govt forms I found it to be a impossible task.

This is all about big oil politics.

except that while it has 2x the fuel economy it also has 40x the nox. You can do the math on that lol. And to the guy who thinks the stock is cheap I dare you to buy it and see just how "cheap" it really is. They are looking at potentially 18B in fines not to mention fixing all the cars on the road AND potential customer lawsuits. I could see the stock going down another 50% yet.

 

[mold]

except that while it has 2x the fuel economy it also has 40x the nox. You can do the math on that lol. And to the guy who thinks the stock is cheap I dare you to buy it and see just how "cheap" it really is. They are looking at potentially 18B in fines not to mention fixing all the cars on the road AND potential customer lawsuits. I could see the stock going down another 50% yet.

There is talk that Fiat may buy them out and really screw things up!

 

[Himark]

Could always go EV....and think like these guys