Minimal weight savings as well if you are trying to lose as much as you can
Viper radiator delete
- Thread starter stingray719
- Start date
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stingray719
Well-known member
I am surprised and shocked that all the builders here do not see the advantage to getting all the hot air out from under the hood. Did you know the radiator fan blows directly into the air box opening?
The girlfriends Viper I reversed the radiator connector so the air blows out instead of in, and left it that way as she likes to forget and let her sled sit and idle.
Sorry to break it to those of you that have not tried it but state it will not work....but it does. I have essentially the same cooling system as a 2014 M8, will you also state that cannot work? Yes you need to have scratchers down just like the M8, but I will happily do that to get all that hot air out.
By the way NM, which is harder to cool a 3 cylinder 135hp 4 stroke or a 2 cylinder 160hp 800cc? If your answer is the 4 stroke is easier to cool then your assumption I am lying is wrong.
The girlfriends Viper I reversed the radiator connector so the air blows out instead of in, and left it that way as she likes to forget and let her sled sit and idle.
Sorry to break it to those of you that have not tried it but state it will not work....but it does. I have essentially the same cooling system as a 2014 M8, will you also state that cannot work? Yes you need to have scratchers down just like the M8, but I will happily do that to get all that hot air out.
By the way NM, which is harder to cool a 3 cylinder 135hp 4 stroke or a 2 cylinder 160hp 800cc? If your answer is the 4 stroke is easier to cool then your assumption I am lying is wrong.
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stingray719
Well-known member
Cool down Stingray! NMs statements are well founded. He had a Nytro engined Proclimb before they were ever available from AC or Yamaha. Badmouthing his logic and products is uncalled for. If you compare the bulkhead/tunnel heat exchangers you talk about you will also see that the M8 came with 2 different versions. Even the shorter version is substantially larger than the 7000/Viper version.
I'm a bit baffled by his notion that reversing the fan removes all the engine heat..I wonder if he also feels that the heat generated from the header some how gets drawn toward the fan and than removed.
Link to AC7000/Viper cooling system.
http://www.arcticcatpartshouse.com/oemparts/a/arc/52be0071f870024a7c781979/cooling-assembly
http://www.arcticcatpartshouse.com/oemparts/a/arc/52be0071f870024a7c781979/cooling-assembly
Link to 2014 M8000 HCR cooling system. Note the bulkhead/tunnel exchanger. It is larger and NOT the same as a Viper's.
http://www.arcticcatpartshouse.com/oemparts/a/arc/52bde7f0f870021d684c5506/cooling-assembly
http://www.arcticcatpartshouse.com/oemparts/a/arc/52bde7f0f870021d684c5506/cooling-assembly
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stingray719
Well-known member
I said my test worked, he said it could not ergo I am a liar. Not fond of that. People that claim something does not work without trying it are always suspect in my book. Note he was not critical or questioning which is always welcome but that it could not work. I post AFTER testing and even I was not sure it would work.....but if it cools on a day near freezing on a 4 inch snow hard pack road I have no doubt it will work where I want it too.
Back to the fact IT WORKED FOR ME on my test day and if you say it can't or I am a liar I certainly would never purchase from said person/people.
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stingray719
Well-known member
You just proved my point though. M8 is no radiator and only the front exchanger albeit slightly different. That is why I needed to test first, as I suspected the extra length on the M8 was simply left over from the full length exchanger setup from the previous year. Look also in person at the thickness of the Viper front exchanger....but never mind. It works FOR ME.
Also note this from my post "I put the disclaimer in as I am still testing. One trip does not a victory declare."
That's part of the problem with this site, everyone wants to play armchair quarterback! Anyone who thinks outside the box is criticized for it!
I personally think removing the rad. could help with some of the hot start issues people are having, especially being so close to the air inlet.
Now reversing the fan idea, isn't the best idea out there IMO, but it probably does help when sitting idle. At the same time it seems counter productive at speed with the two air directions fighting each other.
I think if Yami really wanted a tunnel cooler they could have had one VERY easily, the header only takes 8-10" of the first part of the tunnel, but choose to have the weight savings of no ice instead.
I personally think removing the rad. could help with some of the hot start issues people are having, especially being so close to the air inlet.
Now reversing the fan idea, isn't the best idea out there IMO, but it probably does help when sitting idle. At the same time it seems counter productive at speed with the two air directions fighting each other.
I think if Yami really wanted a tunnel cooler they could have had one VERY easily, the header only takes 8-10" of the first part of the tunnel, but choose to have the weight savings of no ice instead.
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stingray719
Well-known member
"At the same time it seems counter productive at speed with the two air directions fighting each other."
Had that very problem on my Honda Goldwing GL1800, any speed around 10mph to 25mph forced air flow to stop. Seems on the Viper though the only time I have ever had the radiator run was stopped or going VERY slow. This was a concern though but in testing did not seem to be an issue as the radiator only runs when stopped at least that has been my observation last December to April riding and testing now. As soon as you take off and throw snow on the exchanger it cools pretty quick and the fan goes off.
But, testing continues.
As a side note I have an Apex radiator/fan in case I have to add a radiator and plan to adapt it in the nose and duct the air to point at the muffler.
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NM
Well-known member
And a Hemi needs the same cooling as a Cummins? I think your logic is suspect to everyone.
The Cat 800 and Yam 1050 are night and day different.
Go ahead and reengineer the cooling system if you like. Makes no diff to me, I just thought I would let people know.
We built 21 Viper turbos last season and one of them had the rad deleted...I will give you one guess as to which one had cooling issues.
Although you may disagree your biggest test will be an all day test.in deep deep snow where the motor is under extreme loads (heat) with all the air outlets plugged up with snow all day (more heat).
Cooling capacity does matter if the engineers back at Yamaha who by the way have done a great job of shaving weight felt the radiator was not a necessity they would have been very happy to shave the additional weight by not needing the capacity of the radiator. Or do you honestly believe from a design and engineering stand point the Viper radiator was an after thought.
Cooling capacity does matter if the engineers back at Yamaha who by the way have done a great job of shaving weight felt the radiator was not a necessity they would have been very happy to shave the additional weight by not needing the capacity of the radiator. Or do you honestly believe from a design and engineering stand point the Viper radiator was an after thought.
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BigFish BC
Well-known member
it amazes me how when somebody tries to discuss something with you,you have to start insulting people.i always stay out of your threads because this is always what happens,for some reason you take offense to discussion,you would get more respect here if you would talk thing out instead of bashing somebody. NM company that has more hours on the viper testing stuff than every other company out there.mountaintech designs & build some great stuff & are only talking things out with you & making good points.you have some good ideas but really need to learn to take constructive criticism.
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stingray719
Well-known member
Look above and see if I did the radiator delete on a turbo? Reading comprehension issues too? Who here does not know a turbo sled needs more cooling? Would that be why MPI kit has so many cooling changes? Tell me where you did a radiator delete on a stocker and used ice scratchers please.
You called me a liar and you are dead wrong it works on a non turbo sled, at least as far as I have tested. Had you spent decades working cooling system issues on race cars you would not have jumped in on this one. You can be a turbo developer and you should as your cooling knowledge is obviously limited.
BTW one of your competitors (not MPI)is working on a radiator relocation to a much smaller radiator in a different spot to get the heat out from under the hood. You should see it out soon.
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stingray719
Well-known member
I explained where and when it worked and he said it cannot calling me a liar. If that is constructive criticism then we have different definition.
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Snappy Sledder
Well-known member
First off, the GL1800 radiator fan is programmed to shut off at speeds around 12mph due to not having adequate power to force the air the direction the fan is blowing it. There for it flows through the body work and out the fairing.
Second, a radiator delete might be alright if you tend to ride trails and don't mind running scratchers. For guys in the bottomless pow, whether is 90% of the days they ride or 10%, need the radiator to help keep engine temps down no matter if it's boosted or not.
Third, NM never stated you were a liar. He said your plan will not work, and I see his reasoning. The one he built was boosted, yes. It was running higher temps under the hood and having problems, that's a given. But, I would guess 80% of the viper mtx's out there are getting boost. If not, the ones tinkering with them either A. know what they are doing and have spent countless hours researching trying to figure out what to do to them (which is really just boost) or B. will take it to their dealer who will not do a radiator delete because it will void warranty. I personally have not ridden a viper, and have never met NM, but following what they build and seeing videos of their products, they know what they are doing to the sleds and is backed by hours of their own r&d.
And finally, please stop comparing a viper to the M8000. Yes they may handle similar, but the way a 4 stroke works compared to a 2 stroke is like NM's comparison on a Hemi vs. a Cummins. There is nothing in common besides the frame surrounding them.
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Second, a radiator delete might be alright if you tend to ride trails and don't mind running scratchers. For guys in the bottomless pow, whether is 90% of the days they ride or 10%, need the radiator to help keep engine temps down no matter if it's boosted or not.
Third, NM never stated you were a liar. He said your plan will not work, and I see his reasoning. The one he built was boosted, yes. It was running higher temps under the hood and having problems, that's a given. But, I would guess 80% of the viper mtx's out there are getting boost. If not, the ones tinkering with them either A. know what they are doing and have spent countless hours researching trying to figure out what to do to them (which is really just boost) or B. will take it to their dealer who will not do a radiator delete because it will void warranty. I personally have not ridden a viper, and have never met NM, but following what they build and seeing videos of their products, they know what they are doing to the sleds and is backed by hours of their own r&d.
And finally, please stop comparing a viper to the M8000. Yes they may handle similar, but the way a 4 stroke works compared to a 2 stroke is like NM's comparison on a Hemi vs. a Cummins. There is nothing in common besides the frame surrounding them.
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stingray719
Well-known member
Cool, someone who has not owned a GL1800, a M8 or a Viper is now an expert....but why not this is the internet.
