Utah State Parks trail check point for Dl. Lic and paper reg., stupid!!!
- Thread starter towngrunt
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sledheadjake
Well-known member
Why stop
Here in Idaho everytime I have seen a forest service cop in the back country I just wave and keep going.
Here in Idaho everytime I have seen a forest service cop in the back country I just wave and keep going.
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GMCRMK
Well-known member
Near Tower Mountain, UT the fish cops were checking for registrations. A guy nearby needed a tow back to the parking lot and asked the cops for help. He was told that's not what they're there for so he had to get a stranger to pull him down the mountain. Obviously they are not there to serve and protect but to write tickets.
BTW I always register my sleds (even the backups) but never carried my DL until I learned that they now ask for it. Paperwork is in a zip lock with my maps in the tunnel bag.
BTW I always register my sleds (even the backups) but never carried my DL until I learned that they now ask for it. Paperwork is in a zip lock with my maps in the tunnel bag.
You do not have to have a drivers license in Idaho to operate a snowmobile. Just like you do not need a license to walk down the street. I never bring my wallet with me on a ride. I dont need it. I question the authority of law enforcement to ask for it while walking down a street or rideing a snowmobile. You still have the right to remain silent.....
Maybe not for long............
http://www.localnews8.com/news/26577492/detail.html
IDAHO FALLS, Idaho -- Idaho could soon be following in the footsteps of Arizona's recent illegal immigration law. Meaning immigrants in the Gem State would have to carry proof of citizenship.
"We hear there is going to be legislation coming on immigration,” state Senator Dean Mortimer said. “I don't think there is any question, but at some point, if it's not this year, then in the very near future that we will see some immigration legislation.”
Idaho state senators and representatives are discussing a potential bill to control illegal immigration in the state.
Arizona has recently adopted an illegal immigration law that requires people to carry proof of citizenship. It also requires law enforcement to demand those papers when someone violates the law and the officer has “reasonable suspicion” the person is living in the state illegally.
Idaho leaders said there needs to be regulation here, but it doesn't need to match Arizona's law.
"Idaho is not Arizona,” Mortimer said. “And immigration legislation needs to be Idaho specific.”
Idaho Falls Representative Janice McGeachin grew up in Tucson, Arizona and has seen first-hand the illegal immigrant problem there.
Arizona shares a 370 mile border with Mexico and according to the Idaho Statesman has about 500,000 illegals living there. McGeachin said Idaho faces different circumstances, one of them is the illegal immigrant ratio is much smaller.
"Our areas of concern have more to deal with how do we pay for the services,” McGeachin said. “We are paying for education for those children and we are paying for health care for those people."
Both the Mortimer and McGeachin want to see an illegal immigration solution based on how to prevent losing taxpayer money and not a law that's focused as much on law enforcement.
Sdsnocop, thanks for your insight. Here is one of the problems with your practices.
You don't need a DL to operate a sled, yet you take a person into custody if they don't have one in order to prove identity?
That person has just been arrested and detained when the law says in real big letters that they are innocent until proven guilty?
They are being punished because you can't tell who they are, yet they are in legal compliance with all laws until you or your associates decide they aren't? These aren't murder investigations.
That is so far over the top and heavy handed.
You may not make the law, but the accused have rights and detaining them because they aren't carrying something that they aren't legally required to carry is outrageous.
It's practices like that that completely disregard the rights of the people you work for that start making the public lose interest in supporting you.
You don't need a DL to operate a sled, yet you take a person into custody if they don't have one in order to prove identity?
That person has just been arrested and detained when the law says in real big letters that they are innocent until proven guilty?
They are being punished because you can't tell who they are, yet they are in legal compliance with all laws until you or your associates decide they aren't? These aren't murder investigations.
That is so far over the top and heavy handed.
You may not make the law, but the accused have rights and detaining them because they aren't carrying something that they aren't legally required to carry is outrageous.
It's practices like that that completely disregard the rights of the people you work for that start making the public lose interest in supporting you.
I cannot count the number of sleds I have pulled in, dug out, pulled out, started, fixed, extracted from creeks and out of trees, and recovered after they were lost. This fish cop does it all serve and protect as well as write tickets.
I have been rideing in the black hills of south dakota for the last 10 years. The first year I was one of the dumb ones. I didnt read the little paper they give ya when ya get your tags and put it on my tunnel and not on the hood. With in a hour or two i got stoped and got a ticket wrote to me. No big deal I paid it and went on with my life. The cop sat and talked to us and told us where the good pow was. I Think i might have seen a cop out there only a handfull of times when rideing and whenever they stop you they are nice. You can tell they are looking over your sleds to make sure there all licenced, but have always been great to talk to and always tell ya where the pow is. The last time a buddy was up in the trees and got stuck and the cop road up there with a buddy and me to get him out. He out road us with his skidoo and helped out great. Never had a problem. Im glad there out there and doing there job. I have always put my insurance and reg and any paper work in a zip lock bag or even double them up and put them in my seat or pack. Never had one get ruffed up or wet.
fish cop
maybe the ut fish cops could learn a lesson from sd personell...any of you ut peeps remember ed mayne? the AFL-CIO dude/state rep who was "complaining" about the attitude of DNR people? Anyways it was in the paper and all i thought was geeeez another whining demo...until i got pulled over by a fish cop trying to impress his kid ride along. i wasn't haveing anything to do with it and almost got run in because of fish cops A-T-T-I-T-U-D-E. A$$HOLE called in a a freaking highway patrol and sheriff and left me standing in cuffs while he recalls his "hard day" to his trusty cohorts. wish i would have file lawsuit bigtime on that one. with the right witnesses i think i could have cleaned up. but the bigger issue was straightening out that freakin
dept. and the forest service and the state parks and on and on...well, you get the idea.
and yes, i do think they could be doing more. got my trailer stolen in broad daylight right off the street. all i could do is report it to city police. big deal. not like they don't have enough to do. but why, for blessed sake can't there be a hot list set up for all agencies with stolen property, be it sleds, trailers, etc. that can be checked with VIN# at stops? beats the heck out of me...
maybe the ut fish cops could learn a lesson from sd personell...any of you ut peeps remember ed mayne? the AFL-CIO dude/state rep who was "complaining" about the attitude of DNR people? Anyways it was in the paper and all i thought was geeeez another whining demo...until i got pulled over by a fish cop trying to impress his kid ride along. i wasn't haveing anything to do with it and almost got run in because of fish cops A-T-T-I-T-U-D-E. A$$HOLE called in a a freaking highway patrol and sheriff and left me standing in cuffs while he recalls his "hard day" to his trusty cohorts. wish i would have file lawsuit bigtime on that one. with the right witnesses i think i could have cleaned up. but the bigger issue was straightening out that freakin
dept. and the forest service and the state parks and on and on...well, you get the idea.
and yes, i do think they could be doing more. got my trailer stolen in broad daylight right off the street. all i could do is report it to city police. big deal. not like they don't have enough to do. but why, for blessed sake can't there be a hot list set up for all agencies with stolen property, be it sleds, trailers, etc. that can be checked with VIN# at stops? beats the heck out of me...
I understand your disagreement with law enforcements need for a form of identification. Taking someone in because of lack of proof of identity (when issuing a summons to court) is not something I prefer to do. Luckily dealing with snowmobilers I have not had to do this. My argument is carrying some form of ID will eliminate the question of a persons identity which could unessessary cause an issue if you were stopped by law enforcement no matter what activity you may be engaged in. I have run into this situation when dealing with violators in our state parks. In almost all cases the inability to find proof of identity was because the name and/or DOB given was false. In a perfect world a persons word is the truth, Unfortunately that is not the real world. Ask any of your local law enforcement officers what they do when they are dealing with a violator or a person they are investigating who has no proof of identity and identity cannot be established. You will find across the board the person will be detained until identity can be proved. Also think about the unfortunate circumstance you are found on the mountain seriously injured and unconscious, no one knows who you are. Wouldnt you like you family informed that you were in the hospital?
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GMCRMK
Well-known member
That's the way it should. Serve and protect. Thanks.
The state of Utah is looking for money, Sled registration are way down this year. State Parks budget is being cut another 7% this year and it was cut last year.
They have sled check points a couple times a winter.
I do carry my DL and sled registration with me while sledding.
They have sled check points a couple times a winter.
I do carry my DL and sled registration with me while sledding.
so you think its fair to stop people who have done absolutely nothing wrong and bother them? i could see it if they were only stopping peeps without stickers, but no they were checking everyone. last time i checked the saying was not "guilty until proven innocent" not asking if you've done it, seems plenty of your associates do. i'm asking if you think its right, not what the law states. thats how all the goodie 2 shoes justify not having to think for themselves.
"but if i cannot i have no choice but to take that person in custody transport them to the nearest jail untill the identity can be verified." really? some 80 year old grandma doesn't have a sticker and no i.d. so its off to the pokey with her until you can write your $50 ticket? if its the law then thats how it is. really? well until you take off the badge and drive 70mph on the way home, doing the same thing you just gave some poor guy a ticket for. but thats ok, your an officer of the law. what ever happened to probable cause? if there is a current registration on the sled and the operator is doing nothing wrong, guess what, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO OR NEED TO HARRASS THEM! come on 10 enforcement officers ganged up at a trailhead invading peoples privacy? god knows how many killers and rapists they must catch at checkpoints such as these!!! know years ago here in oregon they used to have duii checkpoints until they deemed it a invasion on peoples privacy, probable cause... guess in some places this is still america! not everyone needs big brother holding their hand and telling them what to do.
law enforcement does have a tough job, and they make it even tougher on themselves when they invade the publics privacy and don't think twice about it. i'm sure some of you don't mind big brother poking around in your business, but if i'm legal and doing nothing wrong leave me the he!! alone...
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The registration says to cary the paperwork with you on the sled, put it in a ziplock bag, that way they can match the paper and stickers to the sled, someone may have stolen stickers. Drivers license is because you have to be over a certain age to ride without a special license for kids.
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1MEX
Well-known member
make a call to the Utah fish cops and let them know what their job is to be...
So now I need to carry proof of sled registration, drivers license, and citizenship??
or only in Arizona?
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firecatguy
Well-known member
stopped once in wyo/mt border in cooke....great guy asked me if we all had stickers....I said yes....off we went after he told us where to find the best pow.......later that day they came by in a valley we where in....they waved and we waved back.......guess if you have all your ducks in a row things go good.........
A few years ago a few of us got stopped at Franklin Basin also in a "road block" for snowmobilers. We all got tickets because we didn't have our dl's, or our paper registrations. None of us had ever carried those with us simply because I don't think any of us had given it much thought about the need. They DID NOT say anything to us about sending them a copy of what they needed to dismiss it and in fact we asked if they'd let one of us go to our truck (which was probably less than a mile away down the road) to get all our paperwork and bring it back to them to prove we were legal. They said no and gave us all tickets with no understanding to our situation whatsoever. What that experience taught me is to carry all my documents and to never stop for a fish cop again. I have heard from a number of reliable sources that (at least in Utah) the fish cops have quotas they have to fill every month of how many tickets they give out. So I think they were getting toward the end of the month and a few of them got the idea that they could set up this road block and make their quota for the month in probably a matter of hours.
A different story but also related:
I do a lot of riding motorcycles in the sand dunes when there isn't any snow on the ground with a lot of the same people I snowmobile with. A few years ago in Utah a law was passed that at the sand dunes all vehicles in the sand had to have a flag attatched to a pole so that they'd be easier to spot on the other side of a dune when you're climbing one yourself. On paper it sounds like a great idea. The flag and pole must be attatched to the vehicle and not to the person. The only real good way to attatch one to a motorcycle without drillilng a hole in the fender is to attatch it to the axle nut on the rear swing arm. The problem is that if you ride hard at all, the pole will start swinging around, hitting you in the back and will quickly break off. For this reason after trying it many times, I don't put a flag on my bike because in a matter of minutes I'll just lose it anyway. On one occasion I explained that to a fish cop who had covered up his uniform with a regular jacket and waived me over to him as if he were in trouble and needed help out in the sand. After coming up to him and shutting off my bike to see if he needed any help, he opened his jacket and explained he was going to give me a ticket for no flag. I'm sorry but the fish cops in Utah are a$$holes!! Now if I see someone waiving me over in the sand because they may need help I ignore them, and they won't catch me on their 4-wheeler if they try to follow. That is the GOOD that the Utah fish cops have done down at Little Sahara.
If I get caught doing something illeagle or stupid in fornt of a cop ill man up to it no prob. But if minding my own business there is no reason to hassel me just because you want if I'm leagle,then they can piss off. I just go another way. The cops around here are doing good if they can manage to even ride there sleds out of the parking lots,most just hassle the people in the parking lots..
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I am sorry those of you in Utah have a strained relationship with your local trail enforcement. I have always tried to treat people with respect and dignity. However I have fallen into the trap dealing with several who are verbally abusive and disrespectful turning my attitude sour and carrying that attidude to the next group when they did not deserve it. It is sometimes hard to swipe the slate clean from several negative encounters to go to the next. As I gained experience and age I have found it easier to avoid that mistake. Even though I will admit there are some officers who have a big ego and head (I have known a few) Some are reacting based how they have been treated. The more the prevailing attitue is "dont bother stopping for the cop" the more you may see more aggressive tactics such as undercover operations, air to ground patrol, or higher number of officers working a saturation patrol. This can further strain relationship between trail users and enforcement. My suggestion would be you as a organized group of snowmobile / orv users meet with a LE represenitive, air your concerns, ask what laws they are activly enforcing and seeking better compliance on, ask what help you as a group can offer, help others you ride with or encounter with the legal requirements of the area (peer pressure often works). If you can turn a few officers into an ally instead of an enemy maybe some respect and understanding can be gained. There still will be some officers that cannot be changed just as the attitude of some users cannot be changed but peer pressure also works among LE officers. Both sides may not agree on all things but if each side can at least understand where they are comming from some respect can be gained on both sides. Maybe I am too optimistic but it sounds like you do not have much to lose.
By the way I am not one of those parking lot jockies. I ride 4-5 thousand miles a year for patrol.
Good luck and as long as you are licensed, respectful to others, and come with a happy go lucky attidude you are always welcomed in SD.
By the way I am not one of those parking lot jockies. I ride 4-5 thousand miles a year for patrol.
Good luck and as long as you are licensed, respectful to others, and come with a happy go lucky attidude you are always welcomed in SD.
If my sled got stolen, I'd sure appreciate LE checking registrations for that. Except that I doubt that this is an active part of what they are doing. I have never been asked for the paper copy in Colorado. I was in Utah 3 weeks ago and we were checked in the parking lot at the end of the day. The people there were very thorough and professional.
It does bug me that if I'm on my sled, I can be stopped and required to produce registration without probable cause unlike when 'm in my car.
It does bug me that if I'm on my sled, I can be stopped and required to produce registration without probable cause unlike when 'm in my car.
I see snocops in the Hills almost everytime I go out and they have always been friendly and helpful--but then I always keep my sleds licensed and try to follow the rules but one thing I have seen really upsets me and that is when they ticket people who mistakenly turn in and get stuck on the trail with their tow rigs when they think they are turning in to the Trailshead parking lot. These people did not intend to do this and are probably going to have a tow bill as it is so why do they have to be punished for a simple mistake that was probably due to being new to the area or inexperienced??
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