turbo tuning/ troubleshooting help

[WyoBoy1000]

Many people (myself included) feel EGTs are the most efficient way of tuning 2 stroke motors. Air fuel gauges are kinda of silly in this application imo.
Adam

Many people have not ran both or turbo and non turbo sleds, On turbo setups the A/F is the only way to go or the first and you can add egts to it but the A/F is key. With the right turbo kit you don't need to do any fancy tuning just set the A/F at the right point and the rest you can feel. I run egts on my piped m1000 because it is easier to tune with and gives you more readings. Turbo=A/F N/A=egts

 

[Pure Logic Tuning]

The pl box that you are running sounds like it is a race gas program and you are trying to run it at pump gas boost levels. You will need to contact me and have the program changed to run the low boost levels. Thanks Trav

 

[catmanm7]

ttt

Alright, just an update. Sent box to travis and garr and had settings turned up to 100% but I am still having the same issue. Secondarys were programmed to come on around 6psi. now.
Settings today 42psi Fuel pressure with 2:1 reg
grn 4
yellow 1
red 3
grn blu 7-8
yel-blu 8
red-blu 6
This thing shouldnt even run at WOT, so something else is wrong or the box isnt functioning right. WOT a/f goes to 13.9ish and 7.5lbs boost on av gas at 3-6k. EGTS are still goin up to 1380... I have to feather the throttle at WOT to get them to drop back down. Sled runs great though, I just dont want to hold it WOT to long because all my gauges are tellin me I am lean.

primary injectors not big enough?
fuel pump not flowing enough?
not enough juice for electrical?
Fuel pressure goes up with boost like it should.

In the garage at idle, I can apply 15-18 psi just to my PL control box and the sled doesnt do anything, the box shows grn/blue and the grn will only go to 2? Is this right, shouldnt it flood the motor out? Shouldnt the green, scale up to 7-8 were it is set at?

Also at low idle, below 1800 my tach will shut off until i rev it back up. My speedo hasnt worked, and I know i need to replace my tach, but dont know if this is related to my problem.
I want to get it fixed this spring before next year. Any help is appreciated.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

The box is load sensitive so I don't know for sure if it should go up more than 2. One thing I do know is you are trying to tune with the gauges but havent pulled the plugs yet and checked them or piston wash, until you do that it could be anything. Its probably reading about the same as the gauges but without knowing you can't be sure especially when your running av gas. Sensor placement is important also. If fuel psi is moving up like it should than that part of the system should be fine. Your gauges not working is a concern just because there is a problem, get it fixed to eliminate it. What happens with the g/b when you mash the throttle on the hill, when it hits full boost it should climb. Whats the inside of the pipe look like. is the box hooked into the same line as the boost gauge.

 

[catmanm7]

Yes the box is still hooked into the same boost line as the gauge. When I pull my pipe at home, it always a nice tan color, and closer to the pistons you can see where it is washed from oil/fuel into the y-pipe a little bit. A little darker Tan color in the exhaust after the turbo. This is after the trail ride back home though.
Ill take pics of all the probe placements and colors. I have not pulled plug after WOT, but have pulled them on the trail just to inspect and they are tan as well. Doesnt Av gas give you a different wash then regular gas?

Maybe I should forget my gauges, and go up to the hill then shut it down after WOT and pull plugs. Just dont have anything to reference what the plugs should look like. Just seems wierd that my fuel box isnt flooding the motor out... it was to sunny today to pay to much attention to the box, but I have seen grn blu scale up the numbers, but never seen it maxed out. Maybe a seperate boost line for the box is in order

 

[Catman 42]

Yes, your engine should flood out

To start off if you dial your boost fuel up then at idle apply 10psi pressure to the hose going into your PL box it should flood out. I had one that wouldn't and I roasted several pistons. Check your boots if you have fuel/oil spraying out.
I am running a
06 M7 bored to 800 with a bikeman 45cc head squish .050
Garrett 2871
race gas 4 injector
PL box
stock fuel pump
MSD aux. inline fuel pump
I just installed a 1:1 fp reg from a 2:1
39 psi at 4000 rpm 53 at 13psi
13 lbs boost on 100LL 4-7K'
aem analog afr wot 12 (had been running AEM digital at 11.5 -12)
egt wot 1250-1350
green 3
yellow off
red 4-5 or 7 on the trail
GB 4-5
YB 4
red 7

 

[Eli]

Bad o2 sensor? Mine would read 14.7 but I could increase green/blue till wot misfire and still get 14.7 afr.

Also, I switched in the middle of the year from a 2860 to a 2876 and didn't change my box settings.



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[catmanm7]

2nd ride on brand new sensor. It could be the gauge, but again I think I am going with Catman42 and saying this box isnt operating correctly. I have read that someone applied boost to there box at idle to test there secondaries and it is supposed to flood out. My idle and a/f didnt even move. I am going to call Travis and Garr Monday if they are open. I just spent 50 to have the box richened. The box itself only has half a dozen rides on it new. Ill keep this updated, anybody else have input it is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Tonysnoo]

When you are in the garage testing, what does your pump do with a pressure signal on the regulator? Does the pressure go up 2:1?

 

[WyoBoy1000]

You want the box boost line hooked in with the gauge so you know both are getting pressure so leave it the way it is. I'm not sure about reading the plugs with av gas. From everything you have stated I would also lean toward the box as a problem weather it be wiring or the box itself. Does the box have a good ground.

 

[harf69]

When your running av gas the lead will give u a yellow
tint on the plugs and top of the piston iv been running av at
10lbs on a race setup 3-6k for 2 seasons I really believe
80 percent is setup.it might be in the stock pump not allowing
enough fuel flow I know there was problems with the m7 not
having enough volts travis was working on a cure u might want to ask him about it
My friend wired a a/f guage off the fuel pump wire on a m6 bigbore and it
wouldn't run till he unplugged the a/f

 

[WyoBoy1000]

If the f/p gauge is reading the correct psi while your in the throttle it should be working right,

 

[catmanm7]

Thanks guys, I am looking at a couple possibilities.
Harf- my setup is way different, but my single external pump is off of a bridge rectifier and capacitor. A/f is on the fuel pump wiring, seems to work.
Wyo- yes fuel goes up 2:1 in throttle, full throttle I am reading a little less then 60. So 42psi setting, plus 7.5lbs boost at 2:1, should be about 57 on fuel press.
Ill let you guys know if and when I find anything, wont be able to get back to the sled until tues.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

Just wondering, have you checked to see if the size of the injectors are the same as the M8 injectors. It would almost be curious if you could throw an old bd box on it just to read the duty cycle of the stock injectors.

 

[catmanm7]

I will look into the injector size. I may have an electrical gremlin.
I am curious though, everyone says that the box is load sensitive, how or where does the PL box get that information from. I am assuming the injectors? Its just wierd that the sled runs good, even with the box not operating correctly. Its like the box is working, but not 100%.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

It could be the ground to the box

 

[Eli]

I would increase your wot fuel (blue/green?) till you get a wot misfire. See what your afr is at that point. Then add a notch of fuel (wot) to just get rid of the misfire. See what afr and egts are on the verge of wot rich misfire. If you can't get a wot misfire, add some single red. It will add some fuel at wot along with the blue/green.

Have you ever had 11.5-12.0 afr's?


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[catmanm7]

I would increase your wot fuel (blue/green?) till you get a wot misfire. See what your afr is at that point. Then add a notch of fuel (wot) to just get rid of the misfire. See what afr and egts are on the verge of wot rich misfire. If you can't get a wot misfire, add some single red. It will add some fuel at wot along with the blue/green.

Have you ever had 11.5-12.0 afr's?


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I do not think the box is operating at all. I can adjust grn just at idle and not notice anything. I think maybe with the 2:1 regulator and fuel pressure turned up, its the only thing keeping my sled alive. Hope to start playing with the wiring some more tonight, we will see though. Grn/blu has been turned all the way up, I have had the sled gurgle on me once or twice, but no consistency so i just ride it. Red has been turned up and down as well as red/blue. Thanks for the help

 

[knuts82]

Dobeck style boxes are not load sensitive they dont have any clue what the motor needs. You would have to have a charge temp input and A/F input for them to be load sensitive like a PC5. The dobeck box works off rpm and boost input only.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

Dobeck style boxes are not load sensitive they dont have any clue what the motor needs. You would have to have a charge temp input and A/F input for them to be load sensitive like a PC5. The dobeck box works off rpm and boost input only.

How is charge temp and A/F load sensitive if rpm is not??? The PCV is not load sensitive it is its own piggy back mapping system. The reason they say the dobek is, is because it raises the rate of fuel on a progressive scale in percentages.

Here is a really good thread on how dobeck style boxes work, best I have read anyway, http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=249679