turbo tuning/ troubleshooting help

[catmanm7]

Ok, here is my setup.
2005 M7 800BB, garrett 2876R turbo, turbosmart BOV and Boost controller. 2:1 fuel regulator, single external highflow fuel pump, pure logic box. Roughly running 8lbs boost, boost knob all the way out
Day 1
So first time out fuel pressure was set at 38, which should be more then enough with 2:1, but I had the PL box maxed out in the grn/blu and still was running lean at WOT a/f was bouncing everywhere. So later after thinking about it, I turned fuel up the 42psi and sled ran a lot better but stil had the PL box turned way up.
Day 2
42psi, same boost. I ran it a lot more at WOT with the deep snow and a/f would stay in the 12.5 range, but toward the end of the climp my egts spike to 1350-1400, so I feather the throttle and turn out. Checked pistons that night and they look fine.
Fuel pressure gauge pegs at 60 psi at wot because that is as far as it goes. Everything seems to be working good, I am trying to get more adjustment out of my PL box.
Questions.
1) If I was sucking a little air from my airbox not sealing 100%, this would cause me to go lean on the a/f but would it also cause my egts to spike like that?
2) If I turn up my fuel pressure more, will I get more adjustability back on the PL box.

Now I have secondary injectors but I am assuming they are not coming on until after 9psi, which I am probably not hitting. Since I am running only one fuel pump, would that explain why I need to turn it up more. Fuel pressure should be fuel pressure, right?
I am running av gas at about 4-6k

*********************UPDATE BELOW***********************

 

[RACINSTATION]

Post your settings on all your Pure Logic parameters and we can look at it and see. You may just have to lower the transition point. 38-39 psi fuel pressure should be fine.

 

[never enough snow]

what type is the fuel pump

 

[catmanm7]

Rough settings off the top of my head on my Pure logic box are
Green 7
yellow 3
red 3
grn/blue 7-8
yel/ blu 4
red blue 5
I have played with red/blue to get the transition point lower say down to 4 or so, and then mid range would bog.
Even with these setting mid range bogs, but as soon as boost comes on, it takes off. And say 50yds up hill its goin good then egt go warm after that. Gauge are hard to see when haling, but my egts were pretty easy to see when it was flashing cause I was over 1250
I dont know how rich the box is set it, but that shouldnt matter to much, its only an m7

Idle is good at 14 and midrange is 14. Boost kicks in pretty quick.

Fuel pump is a walbro... Ill try to find the numbers and post for you.
Walbro
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180644297888&viewitem=
So based on fuel pressure, all my adjusting I need to do is in the box. If I left fuel pressure at 40, then I need to make the box work. I just dont understand why I am maxed out on grn/blue

Also, to add to this. When grn/blu takes over on boost and adds x amount of fuel per boost. Does it cancel out the red setting or does it add on top of the red setting.
So say I have red at 5, and red blue at 3. Red blue kicks in at 3000rpm adding 5 per my red. When grn/blu comes on at 5000, will it add grn/blue setting on top of the 5 (red setting).

 

[swrev]

Racinstation---don't want to steal thread, but I am having turbo issues w/ an F7 setup w/ Attitude box so it should be similiar. I don't have y/b because no secondary injectors, but is the g/b also effected by the r/b engagement point? I am chocking out the sled it seems and can't get it to rev but I believe the r/b is as low as number setting as it can get and I am getting g/b lights to come on when I blip the throttle so I think I am flooding it. Any ideas? G, Y, and R settings are as low as possibe. Turbo is 53 aero and I've already turned in vein adjustment as far as possible. Sorry first efi turbo and just learning about it. Thanks

 

[catmanm7]

I just edited my post and asked the same question as you before reading yours. I was wondering the same thing. Good question.

 

[swrev]

I just edited my post and asked the same question as you before reading yours. I was wondering the same thing. Good question.

Hoping that is the problem w/ my setup, otherwise not sure where to start. I even turned fuel pressure down to 32 to see if that would help. If the engagement effects the g/b I hope I'll be good to go mess w/ the box and see what I find. This project was supposed to be done last fall, ended up buying turbo XP in the meantime so this one ended up on the back burner. Carb turbos are so simple. Not much guessing there. Addicted to boost now, so spring snow sled needs completed (pizza cutter track doesn't like the powder). --Rambling back to topic

 

[WyoBoy1000]

First, if you max out a fuel psi gauge it can spring it, I had one that was reading 50psi and then I put on a new gauge and it was at 40psi. I don't know but would you benifit from running m8 injectors. with that turbo its going to push a lot more air than the others lowering the amount of boost you can run on 2 injectors, the 4 injector setups will add fuel as needed.

The box setting- You have to ask the person you got it from because they can be programed differently for different % increases in different ranges. How mine works and should be similar to yours - g/b is engaged when the boost come in, there is no rpm setting (at least not on mine) The red blue is not joined with the r/b but works at the same time as the g/b. The g/b is boost fuel, the r/b is like a high rpm setting but it is based off of load settings, it will only come in when the box is reading a heavy load on the injectors and if it does it will kick in at the set rpm. So if you add to red, it adds that amount of fuel at the rpm set in the r/b if it is under a heavy load (I think heavy load is about the top 1/3 of fuel control) . I was told to forget about the red and set it so its off, then tune the sled with the g/b and if I thought I needed it to fine tune with the red and r/b. I very rarely add any red and it stays off most of the time.

my settings - my box only has g-y-r-g/b-r/b
g-2.5, yellow (looks orange) 1.5, red- off, g/b 4-4.5 running 7-9lbs (the lower boost requires more and higher requires less)
r/b if needed is usually set around 6-7.5.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[bart0678]

First, if you max out a fuel psi gauge it can spring it, I had one that was reading 50psi and then I put on a new gauge and it was at 40psi. I don't know but would you benifit from running m8 injectors. with that turbo its going to push a lot more air than the others lowering the amount of boost you can run on 2 injectors, the 4 injector setups will add fuel as needed.

The box setting- You have to ask the person you got it from because they can be programed differently for different % increases in different ranges. How mine works and should be similar to yours - g/b is engaged when the boost come in, there is no rpm setting (at least not on mine) The red blue is not joined with the r/b but works at the same time as the g/b. The g/b is boost fuel, the r/b is like a high rpm setting but it is based off of load settings, it will only come in when the box is reading a heavy load on the injectors and if it does it will kick in at the set rpm. So if you add to red, it adds that amount of fuel at the rpm set in the r/b if it is under a heavy load (I think heavy load is about the top 1/3 of fuel control) . I was told to forget about the red and set it so its off, then tune the sled with the g/b and if I thought I needed it to fine tune with the red and r/b. I very rarely add any red and it stays off most of the time.

my settings - my box only has g-y-r-g/b-r/b
g-2.5, yellow (looks orange) 1.5, red- off, g/b 4-4.5 running 7-9lbs (the lower boost requires more and higher requires less)
r/b if needed is usually set around 6-7.5.

Hope that makes sense.

Red is the main jet setting. aka high load or near full throttle application. The box does not sense injector load and vary red accordingly by any stretch. You are over thinking a simple device here. The entire concept of a fuel curve is based on a sliding scale or basic slope formulas. The more red, the steeper the red slope= more red fuel throughout the curve. The red/blue simply adjusts where, in overall load or (slope intercept) of the fuel curve, the red fuel comes in.

Dont over think it

 

[catmanm7]

I think I may call derek at attitude or better yet call dobeck. But if red, and red/blue are linked together and you turn one off, essentially they are both off. So no one setting in the fuel box will go across the whole fuel curve. So green is the only way to adjust idle, yellow is the only way to adjust midrange, red is mains but if its off it doesnt matter right now, grn/blu and yel/blue is only when on boost, and red/blue doesnt matter again if we have it off.
So if I am good at idle, midrange, but maxed out on adjustability on boost, then my box should be reprogrammed to richer setting.

I am really not clear on the red setting. I think to many think it does different things.

Wyoboy, on the fuel pressure gauge, maybe I should get a higher reading one, when you say it will "spring" I am assuming that once it maxes out it will be out of tolerance, but at idle it has always read the same. I need to try different things, you could be right, cause it is used, so I might put another one on and see what it reads. Thanks for the replies

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

just a thought.. you are running a BIG turbo.. one with a lot bigger compressor then most kits out there... wondering if your turbo is moving that much more air then most do at those boost leves and you box isnt mapped to add enough fuel??

also add red.. that should get you the fuel your looking for. your needing fuel wot. red blue is the switch point on most of the boxes.. i beleive thats how attitude does it. it adjust the point in the fuel it transitions frmo yellow to red at. add red, but if your getting a stumble then coming into high load, drop your red/blue.

this doesnt have boost in it, but play with the demo, and move the lights on the box to see how it affects the maps.. it really helps explain whats going on. obviously some of the modes are different as its a non boost box, go to the top and it says display modes.. then go to the fuel curve one.. might help you better understand whats going on. the more you understand the easier it is to tune.

http://powerlab.dobeckperformance.com/default.asp?demo=1

also, the boxes we use dont even kick in until aroudn 4k rpm.

 

[catmanm7]

Sounds like I need to play with the box. I may keep my fuel pressure at 42 and adjust everything else. I know some say that they turn off the red for initial tuning, but I may actually need it with the bigger turbo. Thanks for the help...

 

[Vertical-Extreme]

all those numbers seem way to high, who built the sled? maybe you could talk to them and see if they know anything that can help you. I am running about 40-41 lbs fuel pressure, green = 1, yellow 2 or 3, red =1, G/B = 2 , Y/B = 3, I cant remember what my R/B is at... on a 2007 M8 Motor with a PL box, I would check for air leaks everywhere, also do you know how old your 02 sensor is? they do fail and will not give you correct readings.
hope you get it figured

 

[RACINSTATION]

Like VE says, those look really high.

You have:

Green 7
yellow 3
red 3
grn/blue 7-8
yel/ blu 4
red blue 5


I would try:

Green 2
yellow 3
red 2
grn/blue 4
yel/ blu 3
red blue 4


Realize that at higher boost it will actually run richer as you have more pressure input into the box and the boost fuel is corelated with boost#.

You should also be good at 38-40 psi

 

[catmanm7]

I put the turbo together. I will go back through everything and check for airbox leaks. I am using a boondocker airbox, and it doesnt seal very good at all. I have it bolted up on the bench and it seals, and when its installed and sled running, there is oil/fuel blowing out somewhere. I know the numbers are rich, but my egts do the same as my a/f. I will try another sensor and see if that helps. Maybe the gauge is going out from moisture. Ill update as I go, but at least I know not to turn up the fuel pressure and mess with the box more. Thanks

also i edited my post on the fuel pump, here it is http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180644297888&viewitem=

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

i would definately figure out your mystery air leak as that is gonna cause you troubles like you dont even know... especially if your box reference is by a boost leak.. there is now way you can add enough fuel if it thinks its getting less boost then the motor is seeing.

figure that out and then see where your at.

 

[catmanm7]

i would definately figure out your mystery air leak as that is gonna cause you troubles like you dont even know... especially if your box reference is by a boost leak.. there is now way you can add enough fuel if it thinks its getting less boost then the motor is seeing.

figure that out and then see where your at.

You are right, but my theory was that, since my box references boost of the same line as my gauge and FP regulator, that the box would see the same boost as my gauge. If I see my boost gauge past 5lbs or whatever, I think the box would see the same?

But either way, I think enough ppl have had tuning problems with small leaks, that I should attempt to seal things better before getting too frustrated.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

Run separate lines to the controls and gauge, FYI, Mine has a big turbo. IMO The only way to tune a turbo is with a A/F and knowledge.

 

[bart0678]

Run separate lines to the controls and gauge, FYI, Mine has a big turbo. IMO The only way to tune a turbo is with a A/F and knowledge.

Many people (myself included) feel EGTs are the most efficient way of tuning 2 stroke motors. Air fuel gauges are kinda of silly in this application imo.
Adam

 

[Boyko]

Many people (myself included) feel EGTs are the most efficient way of tuning 2 stroke motors. Air fuel gauges are kinda of silly in this application imo.
Adam

EGTs are more reliably and easer to use and understand than a A/F set up. They will also let you know if your cylinders are burning evenly.

I haven't used EGTs in years, A/F respond extremely quick, and accurate. You can see how your motor is fuelling when you snap the throttle. I just use a small inferred temp sensor on the y-pipe to see if the cylinders are balanced on the initial set up and tuning. Some people do not understand how well a A/F gauge can work, you get more info than a EGT can hand out.