Turbo HP #'s
- Thread starter cadmo
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cadmo
Active member
well actually they mean lots to me when trying to compare differences for the sake of value to me.
this is why im wondering
at ground level to compare to a ported& piped 800 1000.
that way i can see what is the best value to me, on if i go n/a or turbo or 800 or 1000
because if a 1000 ported and piped will hang with a 800 pg turbo then to me id rather use the left over money for a skid.
this is why im wondering
at ground level to compare to a ported& piped 800 1000.
that way i can see what is the best value to me, on if i go n/a or turbo or 800 or 1000
because if a 1000 ported and piped will hang with a 800 pg turbo then to me id rather use the left over money for a skid.
Well I do not own a turbo, here is what I think.
A pump gas 800 or 1000 should increase 30 to 40 HP over stock.
Race gas should get close 80 or 100 over stock
Totally a guess.
Even if on the stock 800 you only increase 30 hp that's 180 to 190 hp at 10000 ft. To give you an idea a big bore would have to make 250hp at sea level to get you in the 180 range a 10000ft. Most big bores are just above 200 at sea level. To me a pump gas low boost would be a dream sled in the mountains as long as it is reliable, but there are many guys running them now working out the bugs. I will bet that in a few years the price will come down close to a 1000 from what it is now because of the competition and the fact that many are just going to continue to run what they got instead of buying new.
A pump gas 800 or 1000 should increase 30 to 40 HP over stock.
Race gas should get close 80 or 100 over stock
Totally a guess.
Even if on the stock 800 you only increase 30 hp that's 180 to 190 hp at 10000 ft. To give you an idea a big bore would have to make 250hp at sea level to get you in the 180 range a 10000ft. Most big bores are just above 200 at sea level. To me a pump gas low boost would be a dream sled in the mountains as long as it is reliable, but there are many guys running them now working out the bugs. I will bet that in a few years the price will come down close to a 1000 from what it is now because of the competition and the fact that many are just going to continue to run what they got instead of buying new.
T
The Kickass One
Member
Turbo compensates for elevation changes - Big Bore + Pipe does not = Loss in hp at elevation == go with PG Turbo and keep RGturbo open for option. Ohh and by the way, try and keep the grin off your face when riding as the fun factor on a turb is addictive!!! My 2 cents.
I think you have to answer 2 questions 1st before any useful comparison guestimates can be made.
1) What altitude do you primarily ride at? (3K feet? 10K feet?)
At 10K feet a ported/piped m1000 w/ hi-comp head probably makes 130hp on a good day, so any turbo 800 will spank it at a safe 7 psi of boost on 92 pump gas (180hp?). That story plays out differently at 3000 feet since you would have to dial the turbo down to about 4 pounds of boost to keep from detonating due to the increased ambient air pressure. The HP numbers may be about even between the two (~180hp?) at 3000 feet if we assume you can 200hp out of the m1000 with porting, pipe & head at sea level.
2) What fuel do you want to run? (92 octane gas, 100LL, or race gas) -- fuel determines what level of boost we are talking about.
If you are going to port, pipe and use a hi compression head on a N/A m1000, you'll most likely have to add some 100LL or race gas for insurance anyway since there is no detonation sensor. (I learned that the hard way on my N/A m1000 at 10,000 feet.)
What did I do? I sold the n/a m1000 & bought an m8 rgt & I run it at 9lbs at 10K feet. A couple gallons of 100LL mixed with 92 octane seems to keep the detonation sensor quiet. I have the option to run race gas or 100% 100LL and up the boost if I want. --Matt
1) What altitude do you primarily ride at? (3K feet? 10K feet?)
At 10K feet a ported/piped m1000 w/ hi-comp head probably makes 130hp on a good day, so any turbo 800 will spank it at a safe 7 psi of boost on 92 pump gas (180hp?). That story plays out differently at 3000 feet since you would have to dial the turbo down to about 4 pounds of boost to keep from detonating due to the increased ambient air pressure. The HP numbers may be about even between the two (~180hp?) at 3000 feet if we assume you can 200hp out of the m1000 with porting, pipe & head at sea level.
2) What fuel do you want to run? (92 octane gas, 100LL, or race gas) -- fuel determines what level of boost we are talking about.
If you are going to port, pipe and use a hi compression head on a N/A m1000, you'll most likely have to add some 100LL or race gas for insurance anyway since there is no detonation sensor. (I learned that the hard way on my N/A m1000 at 10,000 feet.)
What did I do? I sold the n/a m1000 & bought an m8 rgt & I run it at 9lbs at 10K feet. A couple gallons of 100LL mixed with 92 octane seems to keep the detonation sensor quiet. I have the option to run race gas or 100% 100LL and up the boost if I want. --Matt
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cadmo
Active member
ok
answers to 1 and 2 as well
#3 it will be n/a for first year unless i buy a used turbo sled.
1. Will be riding in Golden and Revelstoke, elevation at town is 1500ft and can ride up to 9000ft or so.
2. Seeing i live in Calgary riding areas are so close i will be able to ride lots. So i want to keep it 92pg or else it gets way to expansive n/a or turbo. Seeing i had a n/a drag car that went to nitrous from a 50 shot to 175 im sure once i go turbo ill want more.
I was leaning to a 1000 due to the tractor like torque, but no det sensor. Idealy if i went turbo i would like the option to run pg on a regular basis and then on days when i want to go nuts put in 114 and crank the boost.
thoughts?
answers to 1 and 2 as well
#3 it will be n/a for first year unless i buy a used turbo sled.
1. Will be riding in Golden and Revelstoke, elevation at town is 1500ft and can ride up to 9000ft or so.
2. Seeing i live in Calgary riding areas are so close i will be able to ride lots. So i want to keep it 92pg or else it gets way to expansive n/a or turbo. Seeing i had a n/a drag car that went to nitrous from a 50 shot to 175 im sure once i go turbo ill want more.
I was leaning to a 1000 due to the tractor like torque, but no det sensor. Idealy if i went turbo i would like the option to run pg on a regular basis and then on days when i want to go nuts put in 114 and crank the boost.
thoughts?
If you are riding revy and golden all the time and your are from calgary here is what I would recomend. Call Travis or gar at OVS and get hooked up with or of their new tial systems then when you get that done call Brent linerman in the crowsnest pass and he can cut your head and lower the compression so you can run 12 lbs of boost on straight 100Ll which isn't that much more than pump gas.
That's a 3.4 psi variation in ambient air pressure (13.9 @ 1500 feet & 10.5 @ 9k feet). Let's assume you get an m8 & you can run 7psi at 9K feet on pump gas without detonating. You will need the boost to come down to 3 psi when as you get down to 1500 feet or you'll have to run race gas to prevent the detonation as your elevation drops.
If you factor in a turbo charge temp of 80 degrees at 3psi (varies) vs. n/a air temp of 20 degrees, that's about a 2 psi loss just because of the temperature difference.
turbo m8 running 3lbs at 1500ft should be about 155hp (figuring 145hp stock). Dial it up to 7lbs at 9000 feet, charge temp will rise, but should still make 150hp.
n/a m1000 with all the goodies (200hp at sea level) could run 185hp at 1500ft and will make about 140hp at 9000 feet. (200hp at sea level is probably optimistic, but you get the idea.)
Now, let's assume you have the m8 race gas kit so you can inject enough fuel to get to 12psi. Let's figure a charge temp of 180 deg F, so you'll lose about 4psi due to the charge temp over 20 degree N/A air. That gives you 190hp at 12psi at 9000 feet. Sounds a helluvalot better than a 140hp N/A m1000!!
A turbo m1000 without a det sensor sounded too risky to me to run anything but 100LL (or race gas). If you can get it dialed in without burning it down, I'd estimate that an m1000 at 6 lbs would make the same (or better) power than an m8 running 12 lbs of boost. You can easily argue the numbers 5% in either direction, but I think they are close based on atmospheric pressure tables & density altitude calculators. Hope it helps.
If you factor in a turbo charge temp of 80 degrees at 3psi (varies) vs. n/a air temp of 20 degrees, that's about a 2 psi loss just because of the temperature difference.
turbo m8 running 3lbs at 1500ft should be about 155hp (figuring 145hp stock). Dial it up to 7lbs at 9000 feet, charge temp will rise, but should still make 150hp.
n/a m1000 with all the goodies (200hp at sea level) could run 185hp at 1500ft and will make about 140hp at 9000 feet. (200hp at sea level is probably optimistic, but you get the idea.)
Now, let's assume you have the m8 race gas kit so you can inject enough fuel to get to 12psi. Let's figure a charge temp of 180 deg F, so you'll lose about 4psi due to the charge temp over 20 degree N/A air. That gives you 190hp at 12psi at 9000 feet. Sounds a helluvalot better than a 140hp N/A m1000!!
A turbo m1000 without a det sensor sounded too risky to me to run anything but 100LL (or race gas). If you can get it dialed in without burning it down, I'd estimate that an m1000 at 6 lbs would make the same (or better) power than an m8 running 12 lbs of boost. You can easily argue the numbers 5% in either direction, but I think they are close based on atmospheric pressure tables & density altitude calculators. Hope it helps.
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supraturbo
Banned
as of now on our m1000 with cpc turbo kit and bone stock engine and our standalone ecu, we made on pump gas 91 octan (9 lbs at see level) 318 h.p. and this number is an 99.9% accurate number. when lunching our standalone ecu, we will reveal the h.p. and torque numbers up to 21lbs(on 112 octan race gas) with knock sensor. All dyno chart. and videos of dyno session with the motor naturally aspirated to full boost will also be available......we are getting there!still on snow testing going on.
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Boyko
Well-known member
That is quite remarkable,
So when you have your test sled at set at 9 pounds of boost what size of weights are you using in the clutch and what RPM is it holding when you have it wide open?
Is your dyno at sealevel or is this a corrected number?
D
Dirty10
Well-known member
Wow
Please share more 91 octane at sea level?? I got to see this. When can I see the vid?
Please share more 91 octane at sea level?? I got to see this. When can I see the vid?
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supraturbo
Banned
boyko,
our dyno is at see level,so no number corrected.as for clutch setting, i will ask our test driver what clutch set up he is running the sled with....me personaly i don't have a clue,i assume it is cpc weight(set up)that came with the race set up.
Wow, you are getting away with 9 lbs. at sea level on 91 octane? That is unbelievable. Was this only a short dyno pull?
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supraturbo
Banned
yes,91 octan at see level at 9 psi....don't forget we are able to pull or add timing as we wish with the standalone....much more flexibility and detonation control maximized....complete marketing/promotional vids with dyno chart available soon(should be within a month or so) we keep stuff for the lauch of the ecu. At see level atmospheric pressure is 101.325kpa(14.7 psi) so if artic cat claim 1000cc engine naturaly aspirated at see level makes 170ish h.p.(wich is true by the way), then we can make at 14.7psi boost 170x2(340 h.p.) wich is achievable or achevied i should say! for more infos on this matter, i prefer to wait before telling guys what kinda h.p. we were able to produce with 112 octan at 20lbs(max we went).....need to keep secret marketing show stopper data's......but a lot of people will have their lower jaw to the floor.
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