Turbo apex problems, need help

[03rmking]

I did a compression test with both the throttle open and closed...

Cylinder #1: 140 closed, 131 open
Cylinder #2: 136 closed, 128 open
Cylinder #3: 136 closed, 128 open
Cylinder #4: 138 closed, 130 open

Here's a picture of one of the plugs...

Two of the plugs were wet on the thread. Not fuel, oil, or antifreeze. But water. I'm assuming the plug caps leaked some water and when I unthreaded the plugs it leak down in there?

All plugs are very black.

Any ideas? How do those compression numbers sound for a motor with a head shim?

 

[pinnedunderdoo#3]

that aint all that much compreshion put a pull rope on that sled and save some weight lol..... to me that seems fine with a head shim still has lots of compreshion...

 

[0007]

One thing for sure is that the codes on the dash have nothing to do with oil consumption so you either have 2 totally different problems or 1 causing both issues Possible scenario is that you have been running rich for some time due to an electrical problem
Rich contaminates the engine oil, contaminated oil is consumed MUCH more rapidly consumed or vaporised
1st fix the electrical problem, then inspect the return pump for broken pin or whatever, do a hot oil change to eliminate the possibility of contamination

Q: does your sled stink like burned oil?, black smoke is fuel, blue smoke is oil
If the return pump is damaged it could push oil into the exhaust and it does burn off but doesn't really smoke, it does stink bad enough that anyone riding behind you can smell it

 

[03rmking]

I noticed my additional fuel pump that I installed inline with the stocker wasn't powering up when the key was on. There was no power getting to it. So I traced the wires and everything seemed good. Tried it again and this time powered up. Never could get it to quit working again.

So if the secondary fuel pump isn't powering and the stocker is still pumping fuel to it, what would that do? Could it cause any of the issues I was having?

In any event, I installed new plugs, changed oil, fuel pump was powering and it cranked right up, code #36 cleared and it idled just fine with zero smoke.

So either it was plugs or that fuel pump. We'll find out soon as it quits working again.

 

[03rmking]

Took it for a ride today. Got to the trail head and fire it up, didn't want to idle & was running rough. Put my hand behind the exhaust and for about the first 30 seconds it was blowing out oil, my hand was literally wet with oil. But only for 30 seconds, seemed like it was blowing out whatever residue was in there from the last ride.

So it wouldn't idle and was throwing a code 14 (intake pressure sensor). So I kinked and zip tied the hose going off my intercooler to the pressure sensor under the battery. Seemed to fix it. Code 14 went away, idled and ran fine. Then about 10 miles up the trail it starts running bad. Bogs at about 1/4 throttle and won't clear up. Now throwing a Code 20 (barometric pressure sensor). Rode a bit more, sometimes clear up but not make much power WOT. But steadily got worse and worse. I unkinked the hose to the pressure sensor and it cleared the code 20 and code 14 didn't come back. But still ran like chit. Got worse and worse. Developed a bad bottom end bog below 6000 rpm, flat wouldn't idle, but clear up past 6000rpm.

Any idea what it could be? Seems like it's dumping a ton of fuel on the bottom end. Lots of black exhaust smoke. And lately my fuel economy has been terrible (even before these issues).

So basically it started doing the EXACT problems as my previous ride. Code or no code, runs bad.

Could it be my MCX fuel controller?

 

[obile]

disconnect your fuel controller and plug back into stock wiring. go into diagnostics on gauge and check throttle position sensor... if its bad it will default to full rich. also goes full rich if intake air pressure sensor goes bad.process of elimination, first check tps. post your findings

 

[HYFLYR]

Could it be as simple as a TPS gone bad? Sounds like a possibility

 

[BigFish BC]

open up your fuel controller box i bet its full of water.did you check your 2 electrical boxes up front for water in the plugs.

 

[03rmking]

disconnect your fuel controller and plug back into stock wiring. go into diagnostics on gauge and check throttle position sensor... if its bad it will default to full rich. also goes full rich if intake air pressure sensor goes bad.process of elimination, first check tps. post your findings

So are we talking about the two gray wire & gray plug? Or the black 3 wire plug (red/green/blue I think?)? What am I plugging it back into? Sorry haven't had this thing stock before.

And for diagnostics it's key off, kill switch on and select/reset simultaneous for 8 seconds? If that's true I couldn't get it into diagnostics mode on the hill for some reason.

If the TPS is bad what readings will the diagnostics show?

And is the intake pressure sensor and barometric pressure sensor the same sensor or is it two?

 

[MOB]

Tom:

once you're pressing/holding buttons...keep holding and turn key/power on.

On Nytro the display switches modes to 'DIAG', and if you release and press/hold the same buttons for 4 more seconds 'DI' shows up with a TPS tester...lower value for TPS I believe should be in the 14-18 range (no throttle input).

Pinch flipper to full throttle position and you should see a value I believe of 94-98.

Apex menus may be a bit different, but same sort of test for TPS. Had a buddy experience the same type problems and it was his TPS sensor...replaced it and all was well.

Baro = 'ambient' reading while intake pressure is intake specific I believe.

Verify above with someone that's positive and good luck.

I would also recommend you PM Turbo Keith on the 4M...believe he also has an MCX Apex and is using Dave's/Powderlites RB3 fuel/ignition controller with excellent success...

You could also contact Dave directly www.powderlites.com

 

[03rmking]

Thanks MOB.

I checked the TPS settings and they are 35 & 97. 35 is WAY high right? Does that indicate a bad TPS sensor or does it need to be adjusted?

 

[MOB]

yep...those ranges suggest your motor is getting a TON of fuel at idle...would explain the mileage issues also.

I'd just replace the TPS...pretty simple...and fairly common.

 

[obile]

tps is a non serviceable item. need to stuff dialectric grease in the connector seems to help the problem. while your at it buy a spare and carry it with you. you'll need a safety torx to get it out. drill a hole in the delta box so you can get an extension straight to the screw that holds it on. makes it easier to replace on the hill.make sure to adjust it in on the gauge to the suggested values before you tighten it down then your good to go. also wouldnt hurt to dialectric grease every electrical fitting on the sled and condensation on these play havoc on the electrical tps settings should be 15 to 18 fully closed 95 to 100 full open.this is with the fuel controller out of the circuit and back to stock, fuel controllers throw this setting way off. intake air pressure sensor and baro air sensor are 2 different sensors same part # 2 different locations. intake air sensor is on the fuel distributor rail right above the fuel pressure regulator and has a hose running from it to between the throttle bodies. check the hose for any kinks an if there is any condensation in it ive heard of that happening.

 

[Boostfreak]

So the tps fix it?

 

[03rmking]

I put a new TPS on it. Checked the settings and they are now 15/94. Is 94 too low?

Started it up and let it warm up. It's varying the idle up and down between 1200-2000rpm, non stop. And it's flashing code 14 (intake error sensor). I'm going to check the lines for moisture tomorrow. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it should run good even with a code 14 flashing? Not sure what's up with the idle changing, any ideas?

Going to try and find some local snow tomorrow to test it out.

 

[BigFish BC]

have you checked your fuel box they get water in them quit often i have seen it a few times & it sounds similar to what yours is doing.

 

[obile]

I put a new TPS on it. Checked the settings and they are now 15/94. Is 94 too low?

Started it up and let it warm up. It's varying the idle up and down between 1200-2000rpm, non stop. And it's flashing code 14 (intake error sensor). I'm going to check the lines for moisture tomorrow. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it should run good even with a code 14 flashing? Not sure what's up with the idle changing, any ideas?

Going to try and find some local snow tomorrow to test it out.

nope its going to run like that until you get the intake air pressure sensor replaced. its throwing fuel at it to compensate for what the atmosphere pressure sensor is telling the ecu. question? do you have a tether on this sled?
if so what kind? my intake sensor went bad and acted the same way.

 

[HYFLYR]

i knew it, that will be 29.95, i take ckecks, lol.

 

[Need for Speed 2]

You might want to check fuel pressure as well. We have found that when they hunt for rpm the pressure is low. If you run factory regulator it is possible also the stock pumps are starting to show up as they get older. One msd or walbro pump with a new regulator 2-1 rate seems to be the answer for fueling the apes and nytros. Hope this helps.

 

[4strokesnewbie]

Tom,
Code 14 and 13, I think are for the air sensor. 14 indicates a leak in the vacuum lines going to it. 13 indicates the sensor itself. You need to make sure you have no vacuum leaks. Vacuum leaks will cause all the same symptoms you are having...ask me how I know!