TRS Clutching [ PART FOUR ]

[Davajn]

I should have Lightning style weights shortly.

Very interested in these!

 

[TRS]

Weights will be available at Rogers Sport Center and myself as soon as they get here. $100 a set.
I’ll have an 850 setup after testing.

 

[tdbaugha]

I've been trying to get this trs setup dialed in on my 17 axys 163x3 boondocker sidekick for a while and can't seem to get it quite right. It feels like it pulls good until the top end and then it feels like it hits a wall and stops pulling. My setup right now is 71.5 gr lightnings, 140-320 primary, 140-200 secondary with 46-32 helix and gates belt. 20/43 gearing. Deflection is good, belt to sheave is good and alignment. Sled is pulling 8300-8400. My old setup with 40-44 and 180-280 secondary pulled way harder on top and I was pulling 5-6 mph more track speed. Elevation is mainly 6-8k. Could you guys tell me where I'm losing my top end from? This setup does back shift really good but I'm considering putting my old secondary setup back in due to how much pull I lost on the top end.

Tighten your track

 

[diamonddave]

I've been trying to get this trs setup dialed in on my 17 axys 163x3 boondocker sidekick for a while and can't seem to get it quite right. It feels like it pulls good until the top end and then it feels like it hits a wall and stops pulling. My setup right now is 71.5 gr lightnings, 140-320 primary, 140-200 secondary with 46-32 helix and gates belt. 20/43 gearing. Deflection is good, belt to sheave is good and alignment. Sled is pulling 8300-8400. My old setup with 40-44 and 180-280 secondary pulled way harder on top and I was pulling 5-6 mph more track speed. Elevation is mainly 6-8k. Could you guys tell me where I'm losing my top end from? This setup does back shift really good but I'm considering putting my old secondary setup back in due to how much pull I lost on the top end.

Not sure what elevation you are riding at but you might want to try gearing down at least to a 19 tooth top sprocket.

 

[tdbaugha]

Not sure what elevation you are riding at but you might want to try gearing down at least to a 19 tooth top sprocket.

I disagree with that move Dave. The clutching works best geared for 76-78mph at 1:1 at 8250.

19/43 would put him at 73mph at 1:1 at 8250.

I geared my quickdrive equipped turbo with Pro Pulleys which dropped it down to 75mph at 1:1 at 8250 but that is as far as I would go.

 

[kanedog]

I disagree with that move Dave. The clutching works best geared for 76-78mph at 1:1 at 8250.

19/43 would put him at 73mph at 1:1 at 8250.

I geared my quickdrive equipped turbo with Pro Pulleys which dropped it down to 75mph at 1:1 at 8250 but that is as far as I would go.

I disagree. Gear it down even more and use overdrive for even more speed. Have you experimented with using overdrive and over rev for more speed?

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[tdbaugha]

I disagree. Gear it down even more and use overdrive for even more speed. Have you experimented with using overdrive and over rev for more speed?

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I was already using the entire clutch face and operating past 1:1 from time to time.

 

[kanedog]

I was already using the entire clutch face and operating past 1:1 from time to time.

Ok thats perfect. You are almost there if it's in od from time to time. Drop one more tooth and you might feel fireworks between your legs. Experiment! Od and over rev never hurts anyone but it sure does make them go fast.

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[diamonddave]

I disagree with that move Dave. The clutching works best geared for 76-78mph at 1:1 at 8250.

19/43 would put him at 73mph at 1:1 at 8250.

I geared my quickdrive equipped turbo with Pro Pulleys which dropped it down to 75mph at 1:1 at 8250 but that is as far as I would go.

Point taken. A few reasons why I recommended the gear down:

1) He is running a 163” with a 3” track. I believe you ran a 2.6”? So more load with the taller paddle and the driveshaft sprockets are taller with the 3” pitch equipped sleds. IE he could use the lower gear with these 2 differences. Also, Efficiency with chain drive isn’t as good as belt drive and IMO we need just a hair more gear than comparable belt drive on top of the paddle and driver size difference.

2) Sidekick. This will upset the Boondocker crowd. Sidekicks tend to lay down on top end compared to a comparable Silber.

3) It’s cheap and an easy swap. I know TRS was recommending guys gearing down with this setup.

I do wonder though if he reshimmed the primary? Each of the lightening weight setups I have installed I have taken 0.030” of shims out.

Also wonder if clutches are aligned? Found my wife’s ‘18 way out. 0.050”

Good stuff

 

[kanedog]

Point taken. A few reasons why I recommended the gear down:

1) He is running a 163” with a 3” track. I believe you ran a 2.6”? So more load with the taller paddle and the driveshaft sprockets are taller with the 3” pitch equipped sleds. IE he could use the lower gear with these 2 differences. Also, Efficiency with chain drive isn’t as good as belt drive and IMO we need just a hair more gear than comparable belt drive on top of the paddle and driver size difference.

2) Sidekick. This will upset the Boondocker crowd. Sidekicks tend to lay down on top end compared to a comparable Silber.

3) It’s cheap and an easy swap. I know TRS was recommending guys gearing down with this setup.

I do wonder though if he reshimmed the primary? Each of the lightening weight setups I have installed I have taken 0.030” of shims out.

Also wonder if clutches are aligned? Found my wife’s ‘18 way out. 0.050”

Good stuff

Not ganging up on you at all Tdbaugha but this guy speaks my gearing/clutching language. Long lost brother. Just needed to get that off my chest.

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[xpspenziv]

Dave is kinda sharp.

TRS. Any word on the lightning weights?
I Have 76.5 running 7#. Perfect. I'm curious on what I made need to turn it up to 10#.. I ride 3-6000 normally. I'm assuming a spring change would be needed.
78-80 gram wt.

 

[TRS]

It is looking like availability the first of January. We had issues with the first run.
I’m sorry we have to wait.

 

[tdbaugha]

3) It’s cheap and an easy swap. I know TRS was recommending guys gearing down with this setup.

The MPH recommendation I posted is a copy and paste from what Tony recommends. Who also runs a chaincase 163 3”.

But yeah you can gear it down more if that suits your conditions, track, and riding style. The helix angles and spring recommendations posted in these threads are directly related to the gear ratios chosen.

 

[S7even]

Point taken. A few reasons why I recommended the gear down:

1) He is running a 163” with a 3” track. I believe you ran a 2.6”? So more load with the taller paddle and the driveshaft sprockets are taller with the 3” pitch equipped sleds. IE he could use the lower gear with these 2 differences. Also, Efficiency with chain drive isn’t as good as belt drive and IMO we need just a hair more gear than comparable belt drive on top of the paddle and driver size difference.

2) Sidekick. This will upset the Boondocker crowd. Sidekicks tend to lay down on top end compared to a comparable Silber.

3) It’s cheap and an easy swap. I know TRS was recommending guys gearing down with this setup.

I do wonder though if he reshimmed the primary? Each of the lightening weight setups I have installed I have taken 0.030” of shims out.

Also wonder if clutches are aligned? Found my wife’s ‘18 way out. 0.050”

Good stuff

Thank you guys for all the suggestions. I have been talking with Tony and I'm going to try a 125-175 secondary spring with the 46-32 helix and see if that works and maybe try a 42-32 if that doesn't work. My elevation is mainly 6k-8k. I will also check my track tension but it never ratchets and felt pretty tight all last year. I did reshim the primary for the lightning weights. My alignment was good last year and I added some more float to the secondary, you measure alignment with the secondary pushed all the way in right? I really want this setup to work for me, the back shifting is great but it falls off and hits a wall on the top, if I can get that fixed it will be great. I can swap my 19 tooth top gear back in if it still isn't working great after trying everything else, I've just been trying to follow the instructions exactly and Tony recommended the 20/43. Now just to wait for enough snow to actually test things, still not very much here in idaho.

 

[d8grandpa]

For alignment you need the correct tool for the Axys. After placing the tool onto your primary clutch, you slide the secondary out to contact your allignment tool.
It should contact on one side of your secondary only.
The gap range is noted on the tool. I call this the neutral position of the secondary. There will be varying options on the float, but personally i set up mine to have 100tho float in and out from this neutral position.

 

[S7even]

For alignment you need the correct tool for the Axys. After placing the tool onto your primary clutch, you slide the secondary out to contact your allignment tool.
It should contact on one side of your secondary only.
The gap range is noted on the tool. I call this the neutral position of the secondary. There will be varying options on the float, but personally i set up mine to have 100tho float in and out from this neutral position.

Thank you, I have been using the slp 191 tool to set my alignment, I don't remember the exact number I set mine to last year.

 

[TRS]

For the AXYS.
Using the 191 bar you start with .130” clearance between the bar and the front of the secondary. From there you rely on your belts witness marks to fine tune offset.

 

[S7even]

For the AXYS.
Using the 191 bar you start with .130” clearance between the bar and the front of the secondary. From there you rely on your belts witness marks to fine tune offset.

Perfect thank you. I'm not sure what to look for with the belt witness marks, I know you posted about it earlier in this thread but I couldn't ever view that picture for some reason.

 

[Ski-Dont89]

For the AXYS.
Using the 191 bar you start with .130” clearance between the bar and the front of the secondary. From there you rely on your belts witness marks to fine tune offset.

.130” with secondary pushed in or pulled out on jack shaft

How much float do you shoot for

 

[TRS]

.130” with secondary pushed in or pulled out on jack shaft

How much float do you shoot for

Pushed in and then add .030” of float outward.
The 191 works great installed from the bottom of the primary and secondary.