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Today was a BIG step in the right direction!!!

Everything is supply and demand. You want to keep the unions and force employers to pay you more, they will find cheaper labor somewhere else, and that is overseas, where there is a supply of cheap labor. The unions have forced jobs out of the US, because the labor is overpaid and the market won't support those inflated cost of business.

exactly. Putting lug nuts on cars on an assembly line at 30.00/hr because that what the union says you should make. Not that you have skills/talent to make it on your own.

state workers in a union in MN. They are basically employed by the public but get have a union. I dont get that.
 
Now that was awesome! Pj you have mining which is big industry that controls itself. What about other places for us hard working blue collar areas that don't have monster mining or oil or other money monsters? Fact- without my union living where I do, there is absolutely no way I would be making the same wage or package I receive for the same work. I have multiple personal experiences to prove it. That is why i am a union member and will remain until i hopefully retire but there are many things i don't agree with as well. Play the game to help provide for my family the only way i know how. Hard work! i would relocate and start over if I have to But I really like it here. Lol!

You like Minnesota? Here we hardly have any unions anymore? In my career union members are usually the biggest, fattest and whiniest people in the industry. They spend more time planning meetings and calling the Union rep because somebody put salt in their peanut butter and jelly sammich. All the while the non-union members are out busting their tails. It may be and probably is different in the North East and Eastern coast. But tell me this, why is that Union Bosses are usually the richest, shadiest and most powerful men in said industry. Why have they been tied to the mafia? Jimmy Hoffa is a great example of that. Mainly because he is the most infamous. Where was the union a few years back when you had no work and were one of the post whores and MAxx whores?

Union = poor productivity
high wages
Insane benefits

BINGO

Not always.

Most of the time, yes. I have seen unions my entire life. My dad was a tradesman and a miner and yes, a union member and to this day he constantly hounds me to NEVER join a union. We have union reps appear here every now and again and they are snaky, smooth talking men. I walk backwards around them to avoid getting stabbed in the back.
 
Not always.

In my expereience its been always. Doesnt matter if its power plants ,mines ,refineries ,the national labs( especially bad) its always the same.

I think a lot of union workers just dont know any better and they have been fed that union line of BS for so long they believe it .
 
In my expereience its been always. Doesnt matter if its power plants ,mines ,refineries ,the national labs( especially bad) its always the same.

I think a lot of union workers just dont know any better and they have been fed that union line of BS for so long they believe it .

Kinda like Obama supporters?
 
Right to work state... Makes it harder for the honest guy to make a decent wage. Take away the union (which help keep wages up), and every empoyeer drops there pay by 5-10 dollars a hour. Because they have no reason to be competetive with pay. As prices of EVERYTHING from food, home products, to vehicles keeping rising seems thats just we need is to drop wages. Not to include that now the employee has to find the extra cash to save for retirement because when the union fell so did his pension along with his health care.

Really?

I work in a field where I made more starting 8 years ago than what I would make now if I took the same job in another city where the job is unionized...
 
Everything is supply and demand. You want to keep the unions and force employers to pay you more, they will find cheaper labor somewhere else, and that is overseas, where there is a supply of cheap labor. The unions have forced jobs out of the US, because the labor is overpaid and the market won't support those inflated cost of business.

Just look at the Iron Range of MN to see that.

Why did China steel suddenly take over in America? Could it have been that high school drop outs were making big bank to drive a big truck from a hole in the ground across the road to dump a load in a pile and drive back to the hole?
 
I predict Michigan is just the first domino to fall.

If every state's lawmakers follow the will of their constituents, we will have nearly all "right to work" states
 
they brought the union in where i work about three years ago. they made it fair, yup people that have just started or only been there a couple years a basically makin what people that have been there twenty years are makin, but they didnt increase the newby wages no instead they cut the longtime loyal employees wages back and were talkin dollars cuts not cents. just ask some of those people who voted for the union thinkin it was gonna save them all how they feel now.

oh, and like many have said alot of the folks that joined the union here have gotten very worthless with that untouchable attitude.
 
Funny, I guess my perspective on being a Union Member is that if I don't do a good enough job for my boss, all he has to do is pick up the phone and my replacement will be there tomorrow and I will be looking for a new job. Productivity, reduction of force, insufficient skills, attitude towards co-workers, etc are all valid reasons for a Union employer to lay me off and there is nothing the union can do about it.

I do like knowing that I've been through the same training when I was an apprentice as my fellow journeyman have been through, and that my working conditions and benefits are something I don't have to worry too much about. Also that I can go from one employer on a project to another employer on a new project and everything of consequence will be the same.

I've been a Union Carpenter for 8 years now and will be for the foreseable future. I don't let my Union pick who I vote for, what I think, or how hard I choose to work for my boss... I make my own decisions and take responsibility for my own mistakes. I'm proud to be a hard-working member of the Carpenters UNION and tax-paying citizen of the UNITED States.
 
Funny, I guess my perspective on being a Union Member is that if I don't do a good enough job for my boss, all he has to do is pick up the phone and my replacement will be there tomorrow and I will be looking for a new job. Productivity, reduction of force, insufficient skills, attitude towards co-workers, etc are all valid reasons for a Union employer to lay me off and there is nothing the union can do about it.

I do like knowing that I've been through the same training when I was an apprentice as my fellow journeyman have been through, and that my working conditions and benefits are something I don't have to worry too much about. Also that I can go from one employer on a project to another employer on a new project and everything of consequence will be the same.

I've been a Union Carpenter for 8 years now and will be for the foreseable future. I don't let my Union pick who I vote for, what I think, or how hard I choose to work for my boss... I make my own decisions and take responsibility for my own mistakes. I'm proud to be a hard-working member of the Carpenters UNION and tax-paying citizen of the UNITED States.


Couldnt of said it any better!
 
I worked non union for 8 years then the shop I worked for went signatory because at that time we couldn't man the project. My first impression of the journeymen that we had hired was positive. Very professional and did quality work. I've been an IBEW member here in Seattle for almost 25 years and have seen a lot of the negative posted on this forum., It boils down to the fact that the good electricians are usually working pretty steady and the winers and trouble makers get laid off more then others. I like the benefits and am happy to not have to negotiate a pay raise with my boss. There are a lot of hard working union members out there who, like everyone else, wants to make a decent living and provide for their families.
 
I work for a large company who has facilities in many different states. I live in a right to work state and I know that I make more than somebody doing the same job in a neighboring unionized state. We also have the same benefit package. We still have a union presence at our facility. The only thing I've ever seen the union do was save people from getting fired that were totally worthless.
 
Funny, I guess my perspective on being a Union Member is that if I don't do a good enough job for my boss, all he has to do is pick up the phone and my replacement will be there tomorrow and I will be looking for a new job. Productivity, reduction of force, insufficient skills, attitude towards co-workers, etc are all valid reasons for a Union employer to lay me off and there is nothing the union can do about it.

Kind of like the Chrysler workers who were caught drinking & smoking pot on their break?
Chrysler wanted to fire them but UAW prevented it.
 
Kind of like the Chrysler workers who were caught drinking & smoking pot on their break?
Chrysler wanted to fire them but UAW prevented it.

I never said EVERY union is good, or EVERY stupid act deserves to be swept away. I actually don't like the Auto Workers Union, I think they're whiny, overpaid slacks that make ALL unions look bad. The truth however is that just like with any employer, any worker, or any product, there are good ones and there are bad ones - labeling ALL OF THEM as bad is an unfair generalization and offensive.

That would be like me saying that people in your career field (I don't even know what you do for a living) are all lieing cheats that will do anything to make an extra buck off their clients or employers. There are good ones and bad ones as always, but to label an entire group is unfair and short-sighted.

Example-

"All snowmobilers are rude criminals that don't give a cr@p about anyone or anything but themselves and deserve to be stopped "

Is that accurate or fair?????
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uncovered: New $2 billion bailout in Obamacare


By: Byron York 03/31/11 11:02 PM
Chief Political Correspondent Follow Him @ByronYork

Investigators for the House Energy and Commerce Committee have discovered that a little-known provision in the national health care law has allowed the federal government to pay nearly $2 billion to unions, state public employee systems, and big corporations to subsidize health coverage costs for early retirees. At the current rate of payment, the $5 billion appropriated for the program could be exhausted well before it is set to expire.

The discovery came on the eve of an oversight hearing focused on the workings of an obscure agency known as CCIO -- the Center for Consumer Information and Insurance Oversight. CCIO, which is part of the Department of Health and Human Services, oversees the implementation of Section 1102 of the Affordable Care Act, which created something called the Early Retiree Reinsurance Program. The legislation called for the program to spend a total of $5 billion, beginning in June 2010 -- shortly after Obamacare was passed -- and ending on January 1, 2014, as the system of national health care exchanges was scheduled to go into effect.

The idea was to subsidize unions, states, and companies that had made commitments to provide health insurance for workers who retired early -- between the ages of 55 and 64, before they were eligible for Medicare. According to a new report prepared by the Department of Health and Human Services, "People in the early retiree age group…often face difficulties obtaining insurance in the individual market because of age or chronic conditions that make coverage unaffordable or inaccessible." As a result, fewer and fewer organizations have been offering coverage to early retirees; the Early Retiree Reinsurance Program was designed to subsidize such coverage until the creation of Obamacare's health-care exchanges.

The program began making payouts on June 1, 2010. Between that date and the end of 2010, it paid out about $535 million dollars. But according to the new report, the rate of spending has since increased dramatically, to about $1.3 billion just for the first two and a half months of this year. At that rate, it could burn through the entire $5 billion appropriation as early as 2012.

Where is the money going? According to the new report, the biggest single recipient of an early-retiree bailout is the United Auto Workers, which has so far received $206,798,086. Other big recipients include AT&T, which received $140,022,949, and Verizon, which received $91,702,538. General Electric, in the news recently for not paying any U.S. taxes last year, received $36,607,818. General Motors, recipient of a massive government bailout, received $19,002,669.

The program also paid large sums of money to state governments. The Public Employees Retirement System of Ohio received $70,557,764; the Teacher Retirement System of Texas received $68,074,118; the California Public Employees Retirement System, or CalPERS, received $57,834,267; the Georgia Department of Community Health received $57,936,127; and the state of New York received $47,869,044. Other states received lesser but still substantial sums.

But payments to individual states were dwarfed by the payout to the auto workers union, which received more than the states of New York, California, and Texas combined. Other unions also received government funds, including the United Food and Commercial Workers, the United Mine Workers, and the Teamsters.

Republican investigators count the early-retiree program among those that would never have become law had Democrats allowed more scrutiny of Obamacare at the time it was pushed through the House and Senate. Since then, Republicans have kept an eye on the program but were not able to pry any information out of the administration until after the GOP won control of the House last November. Now, finally, they are learning what's going on.



This kind of stuff is why some of us are anti union. we are tired of paying for it.
 
I never said EVERY union is good, or EVERY stupid act deserves to be swept away. I actually don't like the Auto Workers Union, I think they're whiny, overpaid slacks that make ALL unions look bad.

You are exactly right.

This is why giving the employees the CHOICE to join or not is a step forward.

Don't you think this would force unions to become less corrupt & act as they were intended to act.
Many, like the UAW have lost their way and have become an absolute corrupt stand-alone industry. If these can't be reigned in, you know full well that will be the demise of the unions.
 
Montana is not a right to work state. When I was hired, I had the option to join the union or not. The non union and the union employees at my company earn the same wage and benefits for the same job level.

All unions aren't evil. In Montana the craft unions are absolutely needed. These unions give benefits to these craftsmen and put them in the jobs when needed. Many of these jobs are a week or two here and there, working for many different companies in a year. These unions are beneficial to the companies and the craftsmen, keeping projects manned and men employed.

That being said, if you aren't performing up to par, you will be laid off or fired and they will call the next guy on the list that will gladly perform.
 
Pj are you trying to deliberately piss me off. First of all I do like mn. My family is here and everything I love has mn stamped on it. As should you considering all the money us Midwestern states contribute to the western states economy every year. On top of that I have never been unemployed for over 16 years. I am a seasonal worker. I work 70-85 hrs per week for 7 months and am laid off during the winter months. You can attribute the post whore comment to ignorance since I have rarely worked a winter except for the past few years. As far as union workers being lazy you obviously haven't been around highway heavy work in the Midwest. I am not about to get in a pissing match involving who works harder blah blah blah but I can attest to personal experience and I am certainly not afraid to go toe to toe with anyone in regards to work ethic....

Rant over carry on!
 
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