Brett.... you out there brother? I too would be interested to know the answers to these questions. Thanks for your presence in the forums, it probably reduces the phone calls you guys get and helps us all out a bunch.
Timbersled.com is now live with the 2016 Product info
- Thread starter Blaser
- Start date
Brett.... you out there brother? I too would be interested to know the answers to these questions. Thanks for your presence in the forums, it probably reduces the phone calls you guys get and helps us all out a bunch.
The proof is always in the pudding... And I cannot wait to try and taste more of that TIMBERSLED MH pudding. Eye candy amounts to teasing, I want to strap a 2016 LT TSS between me legs and ride the suspension clean off her. I have a funny feeling I'm gonna need more bike!
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M
mtn-doo
Well-known member
Brett is out of town for a couple of days. As a regional sales rep for Timbersled, I will try and do my best.
The SX kit is set up and engineered specifically for racing and big hits. The axle height on and SX kit is higher than the ST kit, and the approach angle on the sx kit is more aggressive as well. Suspension travel is slightly greater on the sx kit.
The track on the sx kit is at least 3 pounds lighter than the St kit. the overall chassis of the sx kit is 2 inches narrower, so there is also weight savings there.
The SX kit is set up and engineered specifically for racing and big hits. The axle height on and SX kit is higher than the ST kit, and the approach angle on the sx kit is more aggressive as well. Suspension travel is slightly greater on the sx kit.
The track on the sx kit is at least 3 pounds lighter than the St kit. the overall chassis of the sx kit is 2 inches narrower, so there is also weight savings there.
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Blaser
Well-known member
Sorry guys- got slammed by the Snow Check launch, and then finally got to take 2 days off and catch the last 2 days of spring break with my kids. That was a nice break.
Here's a few more SX answers:
With the 70 degree Bergs- we will see if there is any kind of work-around to get TSS to fit and also with frame/subframe clearance. For now, we're erring to the cautious side and saying TSS won't fit those bikes.
Older SX subframe reducers started out as 6061 hard anodized reducers, and were upgraded to hardened steel gold zinc plated bushings in m/y 2015.
For m/y 2016, the SX/ST/LT all use the same size frame bushings. So to clarify, the SX used to use oversize bushings, now the SX uses the same size frame bushings as the ST/LT always have used.
2016 TSS bushings are hardened steel, gold zinc plated. They use a rubber o-ring seal, and there is also a special nylon frame insert bushing that goes into your frame eyelets before the new bushings are installed. It's a pretty cool way to do it, reduces friction at that joint, and has tested out to be very durable.
Ride quality- This season I owned the 2015 SX 120 and SX137 kits with the new Convex rear suspension and tracks. Both my SX kits have the typical 3rd shock.
The new 2016 ST kit with TSS makes my SX feel like an antiquated technology. The new TSS is that much more responsive and reactive. It’s more plush, and feels like you use more of the available travel. I can sit down through the big bumps on the new TSS, where I would have to stand up on my 2015 SX. Videos are in production!
Here’s a few more specs:
The SX frame is shorter on the front portion of the frame.
The SX drive axle is higher off the ground.
The SX track angle is approximately 10 degrees more aggressive than ST or LT
Rear suspension is mounted differently in the tunnel to give it more travel than the ST/LT
SX suspension has a stiffer compression rate to handle the big hits that it’s designed to take.
SX tunnel is mounted higher on the rear suspension, which makes the SX kit sit approx. 1.5” higher
SX track has more tunnel clearance and does not require a tunnel kick up
SX kit is 2” narrower (frame is narrower, suspension arms are narrower, track is narrower)
SX kit is 5+ pounds lighter than ST. Weight is saved in 2" narrower parts, FLOAT shocks vs. coil overs, narrower track, etc. My gut says it's more like 8 to 10 pounds lighter. Just guesstimates.
What did I miss? Your questions and comments will help us to polish off a few TSS videos we're editing.
-Blaser
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Perfect! Thank's Brett.
Did that sway your decision back to the SX?
My question about the SX, is the chain groove required since there is more tunnel clearance?
Other question, is in regards to the intake system. What all comes with it, is there a tube and filter and filter cover etc? Plus my kit is going on a 2003 cr450 body with cr500 engine, so I assume can mix and match to have the intake fit my carb etc. That or I can make my own intake system, just would be nice to know what it came with specifically so I don't buy extra stuff.
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Blaser
Well-known member
Great questions.
Chain groove- The SX kit is engineered right on the ragged edge of aggressiveness. It's been moved as close to the bike as possible, and the axle is as high as possible to allow for more travel and to give it more obstacle clearance when casing it out. (think about how many times your drive axle bottomed into a mogul, log, or other obstacle and you didn't know it)
That being said, both my SX kits were on different bikes, and took different sprocket combos. After the chain stretched in, one definitely ran in the chain groove, and one probably would have been ok without the groove. I'm glad the groove is there on both bikes because I've messed with gearing quite a few times.
With our new 2016 nickel plated x-ring chain, there is virtually no stretch after break-in. Like none. Don't tell anyone I said this, but I'll probably pull the tensioner off on my 2016 kit next year. We've been very impressed with this new custom JT chain.
We anticipate this will negate the need for the chain groove on some bikes; but the groove means you can try more gear combos and not worry about it. It also allows customers with older kits to do the same and not worry about it. And I think the groove adds even more side bite in firm snow. When we develop a new product, we have to think about past, current, and future customers; and future designs.
Air intake: Our intent is to provide a TSS fit kit that is comprehensive and offers the highest performance possible. We also want to still keep prices as low as possible- while offering new and totally unique technology. (yes, we are very price conscious, even though it can seem like we just pick a high number every time
The intake kit is still being finalized, and we will continue to listen to all the chatter about it as we determine how to price it, sell it, and package it. More info will come as we make these decisions. We fully intend it to be the best and most universal intake option available. And hopefully the most expensive... lol.
-Blaser
I'm not 100% sure yet. It all sounds good though!
Great questions.
Chain groove- The SX kit is engineered right on the ragged edge of aggressiveness. It's been moved as close to the bike as possible, and the axle is as high as possible to allow for more travel and to give it more obstacle clearance when casing it out. (think about how many times your drive axle bottomed into a mogul, log, or other obstacle and you didn't know it)
That being said, both my SX kits were on different bikes, and took different sprocket combos. After the chain stretched in, one definitely ran in the chain groove, and one probably would have been ok without the groove. I'm glad the groove is there on both bikes because I've messed with gearing quite a few times.
With our new 2016 nickel plated x-ring chain, there is virtually no stretch after break-in. Like none. Don't tell anyone I said this, but I'll probably pull the tensioner off on my 2016 kit next year. We've been very impressed with this new custom JT chain.
We anticipate this will negate the need for the chain groove on some bikes; but the groove means you can try more gear combos and not worry about it. It also allows customers with older kits to do the same and not worry about it. And I think the groove adds even more side bite in firm snow. When we develop a new product, we have to think about past, current, and future customers; and future designs.
Air intake: Our intent is to provide a TSS fit kit that is comprehensive and offers the highest performance possible. We also want to still keep prices as low as possible- while offering new and totally unique technology. (yes, we are very price conscious, even though it can seem like we just pick a high number every time
The intake kit is still being finalized, and we will continue to listen to all the chatter about it as we determine how to price it, sell it, and package it. More info will come as we make these decisions. We fully intend it to be the best and most universal intake option available. And hopefully the most expensive... lol.
-Blaser
Thanks for the info, and at this point you already stated the price of the TSS kit to include the engine air intake system, so by all means make it as expensive as possible...
I'm still leaning towards the SX, but at the same time I think it would be fun to have a turbo machine with a long track for climbing. Figure an SX with a cr500 should be a lot of fun and still get me most anywhere fairly well.
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Blaser
Well-known member
There are lots of options for you to empty your wallet this year, and get everything you're asking for:
-Turbo bike with SX137 and solid strut Fit Kit with rear mount turbo
-Turbo bike with SX137 and TSS and front mount turbo
-Turbo bike with LT, TSS, and front mount turbo
-Cr500 with SX, TSS, and velcro on the grips.
Think of how much lighter you'll be with that wallet empty! That's another performance gain.
-Blaser
D
DenverSnowBike
Active member
SX 137 w/ TSS just snow checked...front mount KMS turbo getting thrown on this fall...I can definitely feel the lost weight...SOB!! But it should be one hell of a ride!
You are forcing me to use a free cr500 motor, rebuild it at wholesale. a $450 chassis and frame modifications myself. So that I cam dump 7k on a kit. I could have just used my 450, but the turbo is out of reach, and I'm not satisfied with the power even on dirt... Though in lieu of velcro I will just have to train with these guys.
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Blaser
Well-known member
I weighed the prototype tracks (or pre-production/first batch tracks) and they are much lighter than our previous 1.75" and 2" tracks- 4-5 pounds lighter, depending on which length and which track we weigh, as there are slight weight variances between tracks.
Some changes were made to the production 2.5 tracks to ensure durability, increase efficiency, reduce friction, and prolong hyfax life. One of our target goals with the new track was to end up lighter than the current 2" design. Saving weight is good, but not if it costs you a ride or a breakdown. We won't sacrifice durability or longevity with any component on our kits.
Final assembly is in another building up the street. I have not been over there to snag a production track and weigh it. I'll get over there once I finish the TSS videos.
-Blaser
I am thinking that I could find a second subframe and hack it up to help give clearance to the tubular frame.
I'll have to try to compare some pictures of other bikes and get a good look @ my subframe to see if hacking it up would be enough to allow the movement.
C
Corban_White
Well-known member
It probably would work. I can take a picture of my dad's with the kit mounted if you need.
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Blaser
Well-known member
Call Corrie at Brewster West Motorsports in Calgary. (403-933-2424) then post up what you figure out.
I seem to recall a few years ago he built a few 70 degree Bergs with 2Moto kits; and he changed them over to the KTM style rear subframes to get them to mount up. He could tell you if that was easy, expensive, or worth it.
-Blaser
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