This is the real deal. Stay off Hills.
- Thread starter sledhead ut
- Start date
J
Jmx571
Guest
Anyone hear about the snowmobilers that died in an avy in toney's grove yesterday
W
def, a good time to stay in the trees! just got back from riding today and we were in places we probably shouldnt have been i saw little slides that had come down in places that i have never seen them before!
Not even the trees are safe...
Riding last Sunday I saw slides on the side of Murdock peak, in the trees, that I've never seen before... More snow if falling making it even worse.
I rode across a flat near Bald Mtn where the frost layer collapsed beneath the sled and left fracture lines 6 to 10 feet both sides of my track.
I really don't think there will be a "safe" slope until the weight of new snow crushes the frost layer.
Rich
Riding last Sunday I saw slides on the side of Murdock peak, in the trees, that I've never seen before... More snow if falling making it even worse.
I rode across a flat near Bald Mtn where the frost layer collapsed beneath the sled and left fracture lines 6 to 10 feet both sides of my track.
I really don't think there will be a "safe" slope until the weight of new snow crushes the frost layer.
Rich
J
Jmx571
Guest
edit to my last post the two sledders died up at the rodeo Grounds Really sad 
Please everyone be careful http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=5160395
Please everyone be careful http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=5160395
D
Got a bunch of buddies going tomorrow I hope they stay smart. Makes me feel better that my sled isnt ready to ride yet.
thank you.
this year...
3 dead already.....
wow....
this year...
3 dead already.....
wow....
J
Contact Wasatch Powderbirds. Not sure if it's an on-going thing, but I did a class with them last year. For $150 they take you up in the heli and drop you off up above Alta. It's pretty much an avalanche class all the way down, with the instructor pointing things to look out for, etc. You dig a snow pit and they go over types of snow, etc. and explain how to do a compression test to determine how stable the snow layers are. After you ski/board down, there is an in-class session for I think it was 2 hours. Very informative!
Jared
J
Just found this:
Avalanche Awareness & Safety Class
Tuesday, January 6, 2009 at 7:00 p.m.
Search & Rescue Building
45 East 100 North, Kamas
Avalanche and snowpack education is the best method to staying out of avalanches. Skiers have been getting into the big avalanche terrain longer then snowmobilers and are ahead as far as avalanche education. The snowmobile community is catching on and realizing that if you want to get into the steep stuff you need to know when it's ok to do so.
While natural avalanches commonly occur during snow storms most avalanches that kill people are triggered by themselves or others in their group. This means we are choosing to be in areas where we can trigger avalanches. This means we have a choice to be there or not to be there. This means that we can choose to avoid avalanche terrain when conditions are bad.
Here's a couple of quick things to think about.
First we need to learn what is avalanche terrain and what isn't. Any snow covered slope approaching 30 degrees in steepness is avalanche terrain. Keep in mind that even if you aren't on the slope proper you still can get caught if you are below a slope that approaches 30 degrees. To avoid avalanche terrain, stay off of and out from under slopes approaching 30 degrees. This is the most basic method to avoid accidents.
Second, if you choose to get into terrain with slopes approaching 30 degrees you need to know whether the snow is stable or unstable. The easiest way is to utilize your local avalanche center for current conditions. Another way is to learn about the snow so you can determine on your own if it is unstable. This method takes quite a bit of time in education and experience. If you are unsure about what stable or unstable snow is you cannot justify getting into avalanche terrain.
Third, if you choose to get into avalanche terrain a cardinal rule that will save many lives is to only expose one person at a time on or below a steep slope. That means if you are crossing underneath, everyone must wait in a safe spot for a rider to get across a slope. If you are hill climbing riders need to be clear of the bottom when another rider is climbing. Don't have lunch or take breaks below steep slopes. One person at a time on or under steep slopes is the rule.
I've been getting into avalanche terrain for 20+ years on skis and snowboards and more recently I've been utilizing snowmobiles as well. I plan to continue to get into avalanche terrain but only when the risk is low. This takes years of education and experience to realize when it's safe. One other thing that is very valuable and you MUST have if you plan on being in avalanche terrain for a long time is patience. Obviously you cannot always get on the steep stuff and you gotta remember that you'll get another chance if you wait until it's safe.
This year has started out with an unstable snowpack in many areas of the west. Many areas have a rain or rime crust that people have been talking about on this forum. Keep in mind that it's not the crust that's the weakness but rather the loose sugary (faceted) snow just above and below it that is causing the problem. The crust just makes things trickier. Things may improve but weather will dictate. Right now we need to be patient and try to fight off the lure of the fresh snow. Be careful out there people.
Brett Kobernik
Avalanche Forecaster
Utah Avalanche Center
While natural avalanches commonly occur during snow storms most avalanches that kill people are triggered by themselves or others in their group. This means we are choosing to be in areas where we can trigger avalanches. This means we have a choice to be there or not to be there. This means that we can choose to avoid avalanche terrain when conditions are bad.
Here's a couple of quick things to think about.
First we need to learn what is avalanche terrain and what isn't. Any snow covered slope approaching 30 degrees in steepness is avalanche terrain. Keep in mind that even if you aren't on the slope proper you still can get caught if you are below a slope that approaches 30 degrees. To avoid avalanche terrain, stay off of and out from under slopes approaching 30 degrees. This is the most basic method to avoid accidents.
Second, if you choose to get into terrain with slopes approaching 30 degrees you need to know whether the snow is stable or unstable. The easiest way is to utilize your local avalanche center for current conditions. Another way is to learn about the snow so you can determine on your own if it is unstable. This method takes quite a bit of time in education and experience. If you are unsure about what stable or unstable snow is you cannot justify getting into avalanche terrain.
Third, if you choose to get into avalanche terrain a cardinal rule that will save many lives is to only expose one person at a time on or below a steep slope. That means if you are crossing underneath, everyone must wait in a safe spot for a rider to get across a slope. If you are hill climbing riders need to be clear of the bottom when another rider is climbing. Don't have lunch or take breaks below steep slopes. One person at a time on or under steep slopes is the rule.
I've been getting into avalanche terrain for 20+ years on skis and snowboards and more recently I've been utilizing snowmobiles as well. I plan to continue to get into avalanche terrain but only when the risk is low. This takes years of education and experience to realize when it's safe. One other thing that is very valuable and you MUST have if you plan on being in avalanche terrain for a long time is patience. Obviously you cannot always get on the steep stuff and you gotta remember that you'll get another chance if you wait until it's safe.
This year has started out with an unstable snowpack in many areas of the west. Many areas have a rain or rime crust that people have been talking about on this forum. Keep in mind that it's not the crust that's the weakness but rather the loose sugary (faceted) snow just above and below it that is causing the problem. The crust just makes things trickier. Things may improve but weather will dictate. Right now we need to be patient and try to fight off the lure of the fresh snow. Be careful out there people.
Brett Kobernik
Avalanche Forecaster
Utah Avalanche Center
S
well, this year is getting ugly in a hurry. and we ALL are to blame. we hear the warnings, know the signs, but still we go. why do we think it just cant happen to us??? i just got back from a weekend in togwotee w/ family & friends. embarrassed to say - we kicked off a huge avy, riding where we shouldnt have been. big signs posted all around the lodge - EXTREME avy danger. the day before, a togwotee guide was buried while working on a sled (they got him out okay).
thank the lord all of our group got out okay. lost one helmet in the slide and totalled one sled as the rider hauled *** to get out of the path. this thing was huge, ran at least a 1000 yards, was 20' or so deep at the bottom. the fact that it came from so far up the mountain and that we saw it coming was what saved us. gave us time to get out. if one of our group had been stuck up the hill, or it hadnt been spotted when it was, this could have ended very badly.
PLEASE realize it can and will happen to YOU, and be very careful on the hills right now.
thank the lord all of our group got out okay. lost one helmet in the slide and totalled one sled as the rider hauled *** to get out of the path. this thing was huge, ran at least a 1000 yards, was 20' or so deep at the bottom. the fact that it came from so far up the mountain and that we saw it coming was what saved us. gave us time to get out. if one of our group had been stuck up the hill, or it hadnt been spotted when it was, this could have ended very badly.
PLEASE realize it can and will happen to YOU, and be very careful on the hills right now.
M
1st ride today
I would have to admit that I went for my first ride of the season today, I went up to Brighton and was on a snowboard. I haven't felt right about these conditions to even go play in the backcountry yet this year. I have been so addicted to sled'n in the past but I look at my kids and it's just not worth the risk factor right now with such an unpredictable snowpack. I know alot of you and I know that you go prepared and that you know what your doing but just be careful all, You can trigger from unknown places right now and the avys are dropping to the ground. I've seen similar conditions beforeAll these recent posts have been humbling to read, the 2 Cache riders up Prov., the 15 yr. old this afternoon and the terrible tragedy of 8 lost in BC? I can't help to think of how all of them ended their life here on earth and it really bothers me. Props to all the many SandR and fellow sledders that did all they could in all these accidents and the heroes who went up and lost their lifes digging in BC. Thoughts to all the families and freinds of these who have been lost. .02 -MERL
I would have to admit that I went for my first ride of the season today, I went up to Brighton and was on a snowboard. I haven't felt right about these conditions to even go play in the backcountry yet this year. I have been so addicted to sled'n in the past but I look at my kids and it's just not worth the risk factor right now with such an unpredictable snowpack. I know alot of you and I know that you go prepared and that you know what your doing but just be careful all, You can trigger from unknown places right now and the avys are dropping to the ground. I've seen similar conditions before
All these recent posts have been humbling to read, the 2 Cache riders up Prov., the 15 yr. old this afternoon and the terrible tragedy of 8 lost in BC? I can't help to think of how all of them ended their life here on earth and it really bothers me. Props to all the many SandR and fellow sledders that did all they could in all these accidents and the heroes who went up and lost their lifes digging in BC. Thoughts to all the families and freinds of these who have been lost. .02 -MERL
S
summit avy 15 year old killed
15 year old kid was killed Monday afternoon in summit county from what I understand it was in the moffet basin windy ridge area. i think thats just west of the whitney warming hut if my directions are right, slide happened around 4pm. Makes you really think about it. My 15 year old and I where riding a few miles away from there today. This season is off to a bad start lets pray it doesn't keep going like this.
15 year old kid was killed Monday afternoon in summit county from what I understand it was in the moffet basin windy ridge area. i think thats just west of the whitney warming hut if my directions are right, slide happened around 4pm. Makes you really think about it. My 15 year old and I where riding a few miles away from there today. This season is off to a bad start lets pray it doesn't keep going like this.
Last edited:
M
I got the same message from Craig Gordon yesterday and will be there. I seriously doubt my rookie azz will be on the hills much this season unless I'm going down with boards on my feet.
U
A little update from the Manti Skyline:
The snowpack is gaining some strength but it's not good enough to trust all the big slopes yet. We were down on the Manti Skyline on Wednesday and found weak snow near the ground that could produce an avalanche. Check out our snow test video HERE.
As you can see it was somewhat difficult to get it to fail but once it did it propagated very nicely in the weak snow near the ground.
This weakness is not as widespread as it is in other areas in Utah due to lack of early season snow. However, I do believe it is in a number of the northeast starting zones. That would include all the bowls from Miller Flat down to Potters Canyon.
We also learned about an avalanche triggered out of Mt Pleasant Canyon around X mas. Probably broke into our well known weakness near the ground.
I'll be back down there on Friday to hunt around some more for the weak snow. Be sure to check utahavalanchecenter.org for up to date conditions before heading out this weekend. It's free info for everyone getting into the mountains.
Also, if you trigger a slide or see any natural activity or anything drop us a line HERE using our observation form. You're observations are very valuable and help save other riders lives. Thanks.
Brett Kobernik
Avalanche Forecaster
Utah Avalanche Center
The snowpack is gaining some strength but it's not good enough to trust all the big slopes yet. We were down on the Manti Skyline on Wednesday and found weak snow near the ground that could produce an avalanche. Check out our snow test video HERE.
As you can see it was somewhat difficult to get it to fail but once it did it propagated very nicely in the weak snow near the ground.
This weakness is not as widespread as it is in other areas in Utah due to lack of early season snow. However, I do believe it is in a number of the northeast starting zones. That would include all the bowls from Miller Flat down to Potters Canyon.
We also learned about an avalanche triggered out of Mt Pleasant Canyon around X mas. Probably broke into our well known weakness near the ground.
I'll be back down there on Friday to hunt around some more for the weak snow. Be sure to check utahavalanchecenter.org for up to date conditions before heading out this weekend. It's free info for everyone getting into the mountains.
Also, if you trigger a slide or see any natural activity or anything drop us a line HERE using our observation form. You're observations are very valuable and help save other riders lives. Thanks.
Brett Kobernik
Avalanche Forecaster
Utah Avalanche Center
R
1/29/09
Uintas rating: considerable
At and above treeline the avalanche danger remains CONSIDERABLE today for triggering deep, dangerous avalanches which break into old snow near the ground and for avalanches triggered in freshly deposited drifts of new snow. Human triggered avalanches are PROBABLE on slopes steeper than 35 degrees.
Lower elevation northerly facing terrain has a MODERATE avalanche danger and human triggered avalanches are possible on slopes steeper than 35 degrees.
Low elevation slopes facing the south half of the compass generally have a LOW avalanche danger.
Uintas rating: considerable
At and above treeline the avalanche danger remains CONSIDERABLE today for triggering deep, dangerous avalanches which break into old snow near the ground and for avalanches triggered in freshly deposited drifts of new snow. Human triggered avalanches are PROBABLE on slopes steeper than 35 degrees.
Lower elevation northerly facing terrain has a MODERATE avalanche danger and human triggered avalanches are possible on slopes steeper than 35 degrees.
Low elevation slopes facing the south half of the compass generally have a LOW avalanche danger.
Rock you should have seen the fracture lines we saw on 25 degree slopes. It's deadly out there right now. Stuff is just begging for a push.
R
Ron, my surprise is that the danger isn't higher BUT we still need to remember that over 75% (not sure) of fatalities happen at considerable or higher. The wind blew hard last night so I fear this weekend could get dicey. We are staying on relatively flat terrain this weekend.
If you saw fractures send a note to Craig Gordon asap and let him know what and where. We need to be extra eyes for him when we can.
Craig Gordon
E-mail Address(es):
cgordonski@hotmail.com
stay safe
If you saw fractures send a note to Craig Gordon asap and let him know what and where. We need to be extra eyes for him when we can.
Craig Gordon
E-mail Address(es):
cgordonski@hotmail.com
stay safe
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