The Oil Delete Thread

[m8magicandmystery]

well at the end of all this...we are pretty well assured there must be seepage...otherwise cat themselves would not have a replenishing flow...so bdx with the oilite bushing in their kit probably is a fail safe mod with enough oil seeping back into the cavity from the premix since it seeps out and all our modifications are just piece of mind...well its been fun..

 

[JHG]

well at the end of all this...we are pretty well assured there must be seepage...otherwise cat themselves would not have a replenishing flow...so bdx with the oilite bushing in their kit probably is a fail safe mod with enough oil seeping back into the cavity from the premix since it seeps out and all our modifications are just piece of mind...well its been fun..

After seeing the motor apart, I would not just put the BDX delete in and call it good, I don't think enough oil is going to seep in to help. Each to his or her own but if the pump bearing goes, and destroys the gear on the crank when it binds it's going to be expensive. I talked to a dealer about this exact issue and she told me they have seen 4 sleds with oil deletes that had a crank failure at the pump shaft. I honestly didn't want to get into right and wrong, I just wanted to post enough pictures of the inside of the motor for people to decide for themselves. Hell, I run the stock oil injection on my sled and don't worry about the crank.

 

[backcountryislife]

Great post! It's nice to see a post that shows pics of how & some good descriptions.

I disagree completely with the need for this, but it's NEVER a bad idea.

I feel there is a simpler way to accomplish the same goal.

I simply put some grease in the old hole & in the end of the shaft before installing the delete. If the area is truly oil tight (it isn't, according to all the builders I know) then this is a permanent solution.

More realistically, the way we see it is that we put this grease in to completely avoid the possibility of starting the motor & running it with no oil in this cavity till it seeps through, eventually the seepage will occur & will likely wash away my grease but it will be washed away with premix, so that's fine.

I see nothing wrong with doing this the way bighoe describes, that's likely the best way to do it. Most of us don't want to pull a motor though if we can avoid it & as I've said before, we've seen quite a few of these & have NEVER seen a failure. We have torn motors down after 1000+ miles & see zero reason for concern, but this is making sure it has initial lubrication.

We DO agree 100% on one thing, DO NOT INSTALL without adding some type of initial lubrication, you may get lucky in having oil in there in the first place, or it may drain out, it's not worth the chance IMO.


Minor disagreement on the how, but overall killer post, this should be a sticky, as it gets discussed rather often & we're not likely to have someone else post with pics & a good how to!

 

[Vertical-Extreme]

Great thread! lots of good info here, I'm still not sure I am going to do the delete, I honestly don't think the engines are starved for oil (turbo or not) but having more room in there for things like changing reeds, and working on anything down low would be eaiser without the tank in the way. I think the grease zerk replacing the line is the best way to go (IMO) if you give it a shot of grease every couple rides you are lubed, if you get some premix seepage that washes the grease away you are lubed, so either way you should be good to go

 

[007]

Are any of you thinking that you need more fuel now with the delete kit?

Here is what I'm thinking:

1. you have your injectors pulsing and spraying X amount of fuel
2. your oil pump is dispensing y amount of oil
3. now you combine the two wouldn't you be short y amount of fuel because of the same duration of injector pulse?

?

 

[backcountryislife]

Are any of you thinking that you need more fuel now with the delete kit?

Here is what I'm thinking:

1. you have your injectors pulsing and spraying X amount of fuel
2. your oil pump is dispensing y amount of oil
3. now you combine the two wouldn't you be short y amount of fuel because of the same duration of injector pulse?

?

When I calculated it last year I came to the difference being approx 3-4% of your fuel. It isn't enough to cause a problem on most, but if you're close to the edge you'd want to add a few points of fuel on your bd box or similar. When I did mine it really cleaned up the response, so It definitely is a difference in fuel delivery.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

You have to drill a hole through this piece #3 in this picture so you can get oil or grease into the chamber. You are doing the same thing as just adding oil through the hole in the bottom of the water pump chamber. Just getting there through a different spot.

not quite following
so your saying drill #3 with say a 3/16 bit and put a serk in the block off plate right, or does drilling the hole let oil/grease from inside move out,

 

[bart0678]

When I calculated it last year I came to the difference being approx 3-4% of your fuel. It isn't enough to cause a problem on most, but if you're close to the edge you'd want to add a few points of fuel on your bd box or similar. When I did mine it really cleaned up the response, so It definitely is a difference in fuel delivery.

You are correct here. when oil is introduced in to the motor via premix it will essentially lean out your mixture by 3-5% if you are mixing in the neighborhood of 40-1. For the simple fact that you are injecting gas and oil together through your throttle body or carb. Like stated if you are on the edge in a zone, its safe to bump up a couple numbers on a box or add a jet size until you get a feel for the change.
adam

 

[sidehill]

not quite following
so your saying drill #3 with say a 3/16 bit and put a serk in the block off plate right, or does drilling the hole let oil/grease from inside move out,

This was in reference to post #24 in this thread. Before anyone had lubricant injected bushing we had to get grease to both side of the stock bushing. You would install the block-off plate and put a zerk in it. Then drill the housing so you could get grease into the chamber to grease the bushing that holds the other side of the waterpump shaft. Now that bdx and others have lubricant injected bushings all you need to worry about is the bushing on the other side that hold the waterpump shaft. Here are a few choices as they all do the same thing.

1 run a jumper line from the bottom of one of the cylinders to this chamber

2 Install the stock banjo fitting and a short line and add oil every now and then.

3 install the bdx kit and forget about it and take your chance with the bushing on the far side

4 install a grease zerk where the banjo fitting goes in the bottom of the case

5 Drill the cover and the housing that holds the waterpump shaft and install a zerk.

They are all doing the same thing, just that the first option does not work as well on the laydown motors. You just need a little extra lube for the bushing on the other end of the waterpump shaft. There are others ways to oil the bushing also but these seem to be the most common.

 

[Vertical-Extreme]

Back up top, lots of good info here!

 

[ItDoAble]

Thinking I'll just put a zerk in the existing hole on the bottom of the case and squirt some grease in now and then just to be safe.

Anyone know if I'll need to drill & tap the existing hole, or is the case soft enough (and size close enough) that it can just be cross-threaded in? Or (I'm not this lucky) is there a zerk the exact same size/thread ...

Some a**hole broke into my garage several months ago and stole my T&D set (along with most of my hand tools).

 

[snowmobiler]

Thinking I'll just put a zerk in the existing hole on the bottom of the case and squirt some grease in now and then just to be safe.

Anyone know if I'll need to drill & tap the existing hole, or is the case soft enough (and size close enough) that it can just be cross-threaded in? Or (I'm not this lucky) is there a zerk the exact same size/thread ...

TTT.anybody know?

 

[sidehill]

Zerk needs to be a 6mm-1 and it will screw right in. Just run it in snug and loctite it.
http://www.saeproducts.com/6mm-stainless-grease-fitting.html

 

[Ausm7499]

So what is the weight savings for the oil delete? I know that my sled (08M1K) runs pig rich cause I go through a lot of oil. I calculated it once and came up with 32:1, so I know I would see some benefits to premixing. Is premixing really that much of a pain in the azz? I just want to know the pro's and con's before I do it. After reading the whole thread I think the two best options for lubing would either be the zerk or oil tube. I just wonder if introducing a grease through the zerk into the motor would cause any issues as the motor is use to oil not grease. I know lots of questions but I really want to have all the answers before I jerk the oil injection out of my sled.

 

[backcountryislife]

It depends on how you figure it. I'm a top off every time kind of guy so I ride around with about 6 lbs of oil or so plus I THINK the hardware was around 2.75? but it's been a while, I remember I figured 7 lbs was a reasonable estimate when I did the math before.

 

[Passelat]

I am also thinking of how it will work to use a zerk and grease it up. I dont like the idea of using grease in the engine to much but maybe it will be fine.
I think maybe the best way is to use a line from one cylinder to this chamber that is filled with oil. But that is the way with most work also.
I am going to delete my now with BDX. Is zerk with grease the easiest and best way to do it? How often do you have to fill it with grease and how many shot/pump do you take Sidehill?

 

[sidehill]

I make sure the spark plugs are tight and start pumping until grease comes out of the muffler. Just kidding.

1 or 2 pumps every couple hundred miles. It does not take much. lightweight grease.

 

[montanasledder]

i did the line from the cylinder on mine. took about five minutes longer than doing nothing

 

[snowmobiler]

thanks sidehill.6mm.hope the grease improves compression

 

[sidehill]

thanks sidehill.6mm.hope the grease improves compression

One thing about it, the grease stays where it is suppose to unlike the oil.