The bubbles are setup, which was my original claim for the problem with these motors.
Dealer setup...
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"The Gizmo" Is dead '09 800 with the kit burned down.
- Thread starter owenbstory
- Start date
The bubbles are setup, which was my original claim for the problem with these motors.
Dealer setup...
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Diagnose the problem correctly;
Fix and address each problem as necessary;
not a "band aid" to avoid the true issue at hand
1) Vent the cap/tank, IF that's an issue
2) Purge / bleed the lines, if that's the issue
3) And if the piston to wall clearance is over .006" or so , install New pistons, get the MTNTK Piston kit (Don't pre-mix oil into the gas at every stop)
Because Not even the Exxon Valdez oil spill contained enough oil to fill that piston to wall gap
This is funny now. Almost Every single 2 stroke performance shop recommends adding oil to the gas. According to Kraven, they must all be wrong.
You are sure getting riled up over this. Having to bring your anger about the extra oil recommendation I made to this thread as well.
You might need a vacation or go riding.
You are sure getting riled up over this. Having to bring your anger about the extra oil recommendation I made to this thread as well.
You might need a vacation or go riding.
The bubbles are setup, which was my original claim for the problem with these motors.
Dealer setup...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And what causes repeated air in the oil supply lines after the oil pump has been bled?
I believe there is another thread on this issue right now.
I'm guessing that from a strict performance and reliability standpoint, most builders would reccommend premix over a pump. I'd agree with that. What Kraven is saying, is that no amount of oil will make up for crappy tolerances, and I agree with that also.
R
R44guy
Well-known member
DiamondDave have you found a better oil cap or system yet just in short? Obviously premixed fuel and oil should help lubricate the upper end a little bit but not enough to make up for either not enough oil or not any at all if your sucking air!
I am of firm opinion the gimmick will not fix the excessive piston to cylinder wall tolerance that the 2010 update has created! The real repair is better fitting pistons and to date the FIX is the ticket!
Obviously I still believe the it is still to your benefit to have a properly tuned PCV to avoid lean spots in some of the factory maps! Having a updated VR may help as well. Yes there are other issues but these seem to be the most common and critical besides expensive repairs. Ok there is my 0.02.
And I'd love to see where I said this. I would never agree that premix would help excessive clearences. Kraven completely misunderstood a post I made about premix in another thread and somehow believes that was my reasoning behind premix and has brought it into this thread with his above statement.
My reasoning behind it have more to do with the many out there that don't bother to check to see what their ratio is, air bubble in the supply line which I'm finding leading to air in the circuit lines from the pump, and the oil cap vent issues. Not to mention the masses running around without PCV's or some sort of mid range fix. Not everybody is as meticulous as some of us are when it comes to working and maintaining our sleds.
I've recently talked to (2) 2 stroke performance shops about skirt issues with Cast pistons. Their theory is that even with proper clearences, skirt issues can be helped with pre-mix.
R44Guy, Thanks for asking. I am working on a better vent system that I've been testing on 3 RAW's. I'd like to get the rest of ther season on them before giving out my info. I can tell you that all 3 have had zero oil bubbles return since installed.
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Mr. Pre-Mix
Mr. Pre-Mix
1) Not angry at all, but very entertained by your pre-mix suggestions to fix the piston issues
2) I took your advice once, back when I owned a 78 & 79 Yamaha SRX's, I pre-mixed those
3) For anyone to suggest a 30:1 fuel oil ratio + pre-mixing (as you've stated) is ludicrous.
4) I'm semi-retired, too many vacations is probably the case, plus extra time to come on here
5) Riding, sure I'd like to go, perhaps we can get together and ride sometime and you can tell me all about pre-mixing the CFI's.................................
6) Name the performance shops that suggest pre-mixing in addition to an overly rich fuel oil ratio on an oil injected anything
7) I do agree from a performance standpoint the premix INSTEAD of injection is beneficial
Pre-Mix Dave's quote from the OIL PUMP ADJUSTMENT THREAD March 11,2011
I personally and respectfully have a different opinion than Kraven on what these motors need for survival when it comes to the oil pump adjustment/usage. Due to the many oil vent in the oil cap issues I have seen and the possible higher than normal engine issues others have seen, I have been running mine and recommending on the sleds I've worked on to go with a 32:1 ratio along with 1/2-3/4 ounce oil per gallon of gas. This puts the overall ratio around 28:1.
So far none of these settings have resulted in ANY plug fouling. If and when they doo or might, I will slowly back down. Right now, oil is cheaper than hard parts.
I've never in my life ran ANY 2 stroke with this high of oil ratio however, certian things are telling me the CFI needs more oil than other engines.
Mr. Pre-Mix
1) Not angry at all, but very entertained by your pre-mix suggestions to fix the piston issues
2) I took your advice once, back when I owned a 78 & 79 Yamaha SRX's, I pre-mixed those
3) For anyone to suggest a 30:1 fuel oil ratio + pre-mixing (as you've stated) is ludicrous.
4) I'm semi-retired, too many vacations is probably the case, plus extra time to come on here
5) Riding, sure I'd like to go, perhaps we can get together and ride sometime and you can tell me all about pre-mixing the CFI's.................................
6) Name the performance shops that suggest pre-mixing in addition to an overly rich fuel oil ratio on an oil injected anything
7) I do agree from a performance standpoint the premix INSTEAD of injection is beneficial
Pre-Mix Dave's quote from the OIL PUMP ADJUSTMENT THREAD March 11,2011
I personally and respectfully have a different opinion than Kraven on what these motors need for survival when it comes to the oil pump adjustment/usage. Due to the many oil vent in the oil cap issues I have seen and the possible higher than normal engine issues others have seen, I have been running mine and recommending on the sleds I've worked on to go with a 32:1 ratio along with 1/2-3/4 ounce oil per gallon of gas. This puts the overall ratio around 28:1.
So far none of these settings have resulted in ANY plug fouling. If and when they doo or might, I will slowly back down. Right now, oil is cheaper than hard parts.
I've never in my life ran ANY 2 stroke with this high of oil ratio however, certian things are telling me the CFI needs more oil than other engines.
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Where in the F does it say in my quote that premix would Fix piston issues? If you are going to quote me, make sure you COMPREHEND my quote?
In the March 11, 2011 quote you made on the Oil Adjustment thread that I copied above.
You reference the CFI's need more oil, when the MAJOR cause of failures is the piston issue
What's up with the "F" word anyway?
So , when are we going riding, Buddy?
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Nice that you didn't bold my reasoning behind it. You are obviously very butt hurt that I repsctfully disgreed with you. This has to be the funniest thing I've ever seen on this site.
Because the CFI's in the RAW chassis are ALL running the identical type of oil injection system. Get it? How else can I get you to understand this?
The F word is because it is so amazing that your comprehension is so bad and the fact that you are so hurt over my respectful disagreement with you over oil ratio's in the CFI that you have had to bring it into a different thread.
Mr. Pre-Mix
Waiting for that LONG list of almost every single performance shops you speak of?
Waiting for that LONG list of almost every single performance shops you speak of?
Anytime but we don't ride trails out here. Come on out. I'll put you up in a mountain cabin.
But are you going to have to assure me you won't get this upset if I were to disagree with you?
Why? So you can bash them like you have me? After this, I would not doo that to them. But you don't have to look hard to find them. If you really want to know.
So now that you have finally gotten the message about mis-quoting me you have switched to this?
I like to keep my business aquaintances.
Goodnight GOD!!!
Appreciate the offer on the Cabin, a little worried I might show up and you'll be wearing lingerie and high heels or something.
Can we just meet at the local restaurant in the a.m. and ride from there if that's O.K. with you?
Now remember I never used the "F" word, nor do I criticize you for disagreeing with me.
I'm criticizing you for giving band -aid advice rather than addressing fixing the true problem, and nothing more than that!
And do you recommend pre-mixing the carbed 600 in the raw chassis or just the CFI 600?
Still waiting on that long list of performance shops
I noticed the oil pump has new number in parts catalog....
Guys guys, come on lets bury the hatchet please. There is a lot of frustration right now in the IQ section. Warranties running out and sleds dropping like flies.
I know SLP and I believe Carls recommends adding oil to the gas. Here is a link. It is a good preventative. That being said, I think it is the most rediculous thing to have to do to a sled in this day and age. I don't do it and I have to live with that amount of risk.
I think we can all agree that the oiling isn't final word on these engine failures. Piston slop really seems to be the biggest concern. And no matter what the fix, this is the issue they are addressing. Crank throw is also producing a level of side force on the piston that just isn't conducive to a long living motor.
Proper fueling has also been an issue since day 1 with these motors. Everyone needs to understand that these issues can all work together to destroy your motor.
And everyone is sorta getting taken to the cleaners with these things. Kelly Blue book has the 08 at about 4400$ so it is now costing more to fix them in some cases than to just walk away.
No offense to anyone, but if I could I would be getting the new cat. That Suzuki motor has been reliably producing 160ish HP. Sad situation over in Japan, but we know they can build motors. And a new chassis that looks to me like it's going to rock. Reliability goes a long way in my book. And Polaris just can't prove they have it. What they have shown is that they are willing to cut corners and leave the customer hanging. That just doesn't sit will with me.
I know SLP and I believe Carls recommends adding oil to the gas. Here is a link. It is a good preventative. That being said, I think it is the most rediculous thing to have to do to a sled in this day and age. I don't do it and I have to live with that amount of risk.
I think we can all agree that the oiling isn't final word on these engine failures. Piston slop really seems to be the biggest concern. And no matter what the fix, this is the issue they are addressing. Crank throw is also producing a level of side force on the piston that just isn't conducive to a long living motor.
Proper fueling has also been an issue since day 1 with these motors. Everyone needs to understand that these issues can all work together to destroy your motor.
And everyone is sorta getting taken to the cleaners with these things. Kelly Blue book has the 08 at about 4400$ so it is now costing more to fix them in some cases than to just walk away.
No offense to anyone, but if I could I would be getting the new cat. That Suzuki motor has been reliably producing 160ish HP. Sad situation over in Japan, but we know they can build motors. And a new chassis that looks to me like it's going to rock. Reliability goes a long way in my book. And Polaris just can't prove they have it. What they have shown is that they are willing to cut corners and leave the customer hanging. That just doesn't sit will with me.
Good link ! Yup clearances are the #1 killer, breaking piston skirts and cylinder skirts, cylinder going egg shape at operating temp = stuck pistons that have less than .004-.005, .006-.007 OK (maybe
) .008 and more (one reported .015
) cause broken piston ect.... arghhhhhhhhh !!!!!!
) .008 and more (one reported .015) cause broken piston ect.... arghhhhhhhhh !!!!!!
H
HDEMWET
Well-known member
this is similar to what the first year firecats went through, what with the lack of coolant around the exhaust side of the cylinders causing them to squeeze pistons. there is no amount of oil that will cause a piston to withstand over ten thousands clearance in a cylinder. i'm not a polaris rider but i've been out with an 08 RMK and it schooled my nytro in the deep stuff. it looked very easy to throw around and though it lacked top end, it did exactly what it was made for. if polaris were to step up and ship the update to every dealer for every sled sold, there'd be a lot of good sleds out there.
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