BugIto with God's help I hope not!!!!!!! NAh, these people have taken scripture way beyond extreme. As you know, these are the same people who protested at the funerals of our troops. I know you're kidding. I'm a young christian believer not in age just in knowlege. Just remember that there is lots of falseness out there so be careful......
The BIG 3
- Thread starter Rixster
- Start date
Also be careful of where you post answers to questions nobody asked.
I don't think anyone really wants to see any of the big 3 disappear. Or to see Americans unemployed. However, I think we all agree that the way things are currently being done isn't working. It's not as though this just happened! They woke up one morning and said "OMG we are in financial trouble". 
NO, this has been going on for years. And nothing was done to fix it.
I don't claim to know the inner workings of any of these companies. Again, obviously what they are doing isn't working. I don't think it is just one aspect of the business. It is many combined.
OK, so the UAW is a small piece of the pie, but that piece involves thousands of employees. Lets just say 3000 employees. What if just 2% of them aren't producing at the wage of $58000. You are talking about a loss of $3,480,000. Again, not picking sides here as to right or wrong with the union. Just giving some food for thought.
Or, lets look at union dues. I'll guess around $2400/yr. This was figured into employee wages when the UAW negotiated. Take that X the same 3000 people and you have a financial burden of $7,200,000 per year. How is the company supposed to afford that? They raise the price of the units until the cost can no longer justify the quality or you have exceeded most peoples budget. Either way, people aren't buying the product.
Now add in all the excessive warranty's that American vehicles tend to exhibit. The overproducing that causes excess inventory that can't be moved or has to be sold at a discount or loss. Companies that large have waste dollars seeping through the cracks everywhere.
Unfortunately, Joe taxpayer is now going to have help out companies that he may have never done business with. Even when his own business may be struggling.
Please, just take this only as opinions and thoughts. I don't claim to know that much about this. It has just been getting discussed quite a bit in our group. Certainly not trying to alienate anyone on this forum. We are all here to learn and discuss.
NO, this has been going on for years. And nothing was done to fix it. I don't claim to know the inner workings of any of these companies. Again, obviously what they are doing isn't working. I don't think it is just one aspect of the business. It is many combined.
OK, so the UAW is a small piece of the pie, but that piece involves thousands of employees. Lets just say 3000 employees. What if just 2% of them aren't producing at the wage of $58000. You are talking about a loss of $3,480,000. Again, not picking sides here as to right or wrong with the union. Just giving some food for thought.
Or, lets look at union dues. I'll guess around $2400/yr. This was figured into employee wages when the UAW negotiated. Take that X the same 3000 people and you have a financial burden of $7,200,000 per year. How is the company supposed to afford that? They raise the price of the units until the cost can no longer justify the quality or you have exceeded most peoples budget. Either way, people aren't buying the product.
Now add in all the excessive warranty's that American vehicles tend to exhibit. The overproducing that causes excess inventory that can't be moved or has to be sold at a discount or loss. Companies that large have waste dollars seeping through the cracks everywhere.
Unfortunately, Joe taxpayer is now going to have help out companies that he may have never done business with. Even when his own business may be struggling.
Please, just take this only as opinions and thoughts. I don't claim to know that much about this. It has just been getting discussed quite a bit in our group. Certainly not trying to alienate anyone on this forum. We are all here to learn and discuss.
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I'm not sure how union dues figure into the companies bottom line. The union takes this money every month from the pay of each hourly employee, it is not an additional cost to the company.
Ford alone has cut it's hourly work force down to 35,000 from over 100,000 8 years ago. Other than dropping the ball on mid-size and compact car development, the big 3 main problem is the amount of retirees that it now is liable for. Toyota, Honda and Nissan has not been faced with this yet because it's North American operations have very few retirees to date. This is one of the main reasons GM is in such a bad way, they are much larger company by number of active and retired employee's.
Ford alone has cut it's hourly work force down to 35,000 from over 100,000 8 years ago. Other than dropping the ball on mid-size and compact car development, the big 3 main problem is the amount of retirees that it now is liable for. Toyota, Honda and Nissan has not been faced with this yet because it's North American operations have very few retirees to date. This is one of the main reasons GM is in such a bad way, they are much larger company by number of active and retired employee's.
That's EXACTLY what I'm saying!
I have two real problems with this subject.
First I need to know WHO gets to decide what everyone elses job is actually worth?
Secondly why have for soooo long have I heard people on this site say "buy American!Support your country!" but now you tell them to fend for themselves?
Foreign companies get lots of US taxpayer money to set up plants in the US so why not give some to an American company?Because they're union?
Before I get the lazy overpaid speech please remember that these are people with families and possibly sleds so lets not group them all in with a few bad apples.
The way I look at is the big 3 had a choice to pay the UAW what they wanted and they came to an agreement. Several years ago in a different economic world , it all made good business practice. The UAW has to look at the business world now and figure out how not to kill the goose that laid the golden egg.
If we pay to bail the big 3 out we wont have to pay the unemployment benefits and we keep people on the tax rolls.
Don't get me wrong, I like my money as much as the next guy but I'm not going to cut my nose off to spite my face
If we pay to bail the big 3 out we wont have to pay the unemployment benefits and we keep people on the tax rolls.
Don't get me wrong, I like my money as much as the next guy but I'm not going to cut my nose off to spite my face
I guess I can stand up first.. What is a job in the auto industry worth? If you broke it down and had each person stand on their own merit instead of all of them banding together and forcing the <possible> closure of a business, added in the fact that many work slower than the second coming of Christ and then add in the actual job that they do....hmmm. I always like to use what I call my carpenter test.. which is: If a carpenter came over to your house and did the same amount of work in a day that you do would you begrudge paying him?
Buy American! Support your country. What a crock that is..really. Not the concept, the actual facts that hardly anyone bought stuff made here and they have all closed down now. If every auto employee bought all their stuff American made wouldn't we all be employed now? But they don't I see them at Walmart, hell I even see the GM employees driving Honda's... I would take a bet that they are a little peeved that they just don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot. this just popped into my head..Why can't all those auto workers pool their money and buy the company? It's cheap enough..I forgot they don't even drive the cars they make.
Are you saying that the American car companies do not get their share of taxpayers money? What about all the no tax bribes to build car plants, etc, etc.. They have been to the well once to often..
And last, before I trip and fall off the soapbox, I can't say that your overpaid, but I will stand and say that the largest percentage don't do an honest days work for the wages they receive..
Typically, when the union goes in to negotiate everyone's salary these dues are figured into the amount.
The point I was trying to make is that if the yearly union dues are $2400 for example. Without the UAW each employee could forgo $2400 in pay and not miss it. Since it goes directly to fees of the organization.
However, looking at the big picture. If you are saying Ford has 35,000 union employees. Take that number and multiply it times $2400 dollars. Ford alone has to pay it's employees $84,000,000 extra in salary for no other reason than union dues.
Heck with the union gone, Ford could cut that amount that the employee wouldn't miss. And give the employee a $1200 bonus and still save millions. The next obvious question is what has the UAW been doing with all that $$$. Obviously not securing a future for it's workers. I guessing the board of directors have more than one house, a yacht, private jets, and some very nice foreign cars. Just kidding.
I'm obviously just speculating. Again, my posts are not intended to offend anyone. Just trying to elaborate on a point of view. In a time of poor economy and rising unemployment, what amount of money are people willing to work for? When a persons job could have disappeared overnight. Would one not be willing to work for less? When one is lucky to even still be employed? We are making cutbacks at our company that are effecting my paycheck. And I'm willing to do it because I like my job and I need to help maintain the stability of our business. Most companies big and small across the US are doing the same. Everyone is tightening their belts. Now because the government steps in does anyone really think it's OK for everything to continue as it was? Some serious changes need to be made and fast. This band aid isn't going to hold for long.
Again, any of you in this position please don't take offense. This is certainly nothing personal. Unfortunately, what is being written on this thread is a pretty common point of view of the nation. Simply from the outside looking in. Most people feel the CEO and board of directors needs to be reorganized. The union needs to go. And this money should have come from investors, not taxpayers.
Great thread everybody.
What is any job worth?
Let me ask you this,would you pay someone working the counter at a donut shop $18 an hour?They do in places in Alberta because they don't have enough workers.
I job is worth what the market will allow.
I have no intention of disputing this point with you but I really want to know where this information comes from and what the actual percentage is?I hear it thrown around alot but no actual figures showing the lack of production from these people.
The Big 3
Wow! This thread has really generated a great discussion. Lots of points to touch upon. First, buy American. Since the creation of Foreign Trade Zones over 20 years ago, lots of off-shore companies have built factories in the States, which, create jobs for Americans. Kawasaki was one of the first, followed by Honda, BMW, Hundai, etc. So buying a Honda car built here IS buying American. The ripple effect of these plants creates other factories that provide parts and materials to these plants. And what about the GM vehicles built in Canada or Mexico?
As far as these bailouts go, there is no accountability of these companies for giving them this money. The financial institutions were given billions, and now many are just sitting on the money. We should have required them to make loans to help stimulate the economy. The Big 3 should be required to build cars with a fleet-mileage of 50 MPG within the next 2 years. If we, the taxpayers, are giving them this money, we should get something positive in return.
As far as the unions go, I thought their function was to protect the worker, as far as unsafe working conditions, and also to protect job security. I believe OSHA watches out for ALL workers, union or not, as far as safe working conditions. So what have the unions done to protect job security? What do the top union officials get paid? Are they earning their pay? Do they have private planes?
It has taken years for these conditions to snowball, and the blame is cummulative. There is no quick fix. This mess will take a while to all work out.
Wow! This thread has really generated a great discussion. Lots of points to touch upon. First, buy American. Since the creation of Foreign Trade Zones over 20 years ago, lots of off-shore companies have built factories in the States, which, create jobs for Americans. Kawasaki was one of the first, followed by Honda, BMW, Hundai, etc. So buying a Honda car built here IS buying American.
The ripple effect of these plants creates other factories that provide parts and materials to these plants. And what about the GM vehicles built in Canada or Mexico?As far as these bailouts go, there is no accountability of these companies for giving them this money. The financial institutions were given billions, and now many are just sitting on the money. We should have required them to make loans to help stimulate the economy. The Big 3 should be required to build cars with a fleet-mileage of 50 MPG within the next 2 years. If we, the taxpayers, are giving them this money, we should get something positive in return.
As far as the unions go, I thought their function was to protect the worker, as far as unsafe working conditions, and also to protect job security. I believe OSHA watches out for ALL workers, union or not, as far as safe working conditions. So what have the unions done to protect job security? What do the top union officials get paid? Are they earning their pay? Do they have private planes?
It has taken years for these conditions to snowball, and the blame is cummulative. There is no quick fix. This mess will take a while to all work out.
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