That is not Ripcharger in that picture posted by Neversatisfied. That is a supercharger kit designed by Empire Performance out of Dubuque, IA. They are using a procharger for there setup. They revealed it at the Jackson Hole Hillclimbs a couple weeks ago. They have the worlds very FIRST supercharged 2 stroke. You can contact Chad (owner of empire performance) for all the details 563-588-2708.
Supercharged 2-stroke, who tried it?
- Thread starter Bjorge1
- Start date
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powderman800
Member
The million dollar question is; does it work
? I saw it and was impressed
. It would be awsome to see it work! Oh, and the engine looked the same as the stock Suzuki(?)/Arctic Cat lay down motors I have seen.
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JHG
Well-known member
That's funny, that's not what the guys from Rip Charger said while they were in Jackson. They apparently have been working on this for over 4 years, according to the guys at Empire in Jackson, the procharger they're using hasn't even been in production for 4 years.
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JROD
Well-known member
I never implied that it was.... I've been talking with Empire as well and I'm noticing some animosity between the two however I'm not too confident with a company from the midwest producing mods for mountain sleds but I could be wrong. Looks like a race to the production line from what I can tell.
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stumpy2000
Member
i'm still intrigued about the blower on a 2 stroke idea... 
if back pressure is deemed to be "the big issue"... i know it might be tough to stick all this under the hood of a sled and keep it light but...
has anyone tried running a smaller (restricted) "main" exhaust circuit to cover the base line engine operation @ idle etc. and a higher (maximized) flow "secondary" exhaust circuit that can have the flow rate adjusted by a valve with a diaphragm actuator run off of the intake manifold pressures (or perhaps even a differential controller to reference/compensate for the ambient atmospheric pressures)?
if you can control superheated steam etc. with pneumatic operated controls why can't you control exhaust flow?
if back pressure is deemed to be "the big issue"...
i know it might be tough to stick all this under the hood of a sled and keep it light but...has anyone tried running a smaller (restricted) "main" exhaust circuit to cover the base line engine operation @ idle etc. and a higher (maximized) flow "secondary" exhaust circuit that can have the flow rate adjusted by a valve with a diaphragm actuator run off of the intake manifold pressures (or perhaps even a differential controller to reference/compensate for the ambient atmospheric pressures)?
if you can control superheated steam etc. with pneumatic operated controls why can't you control exhaust flow?
If anyone remembers a year or so after the m7 came out mountain performance started advertising m7 supercharger kit. I was pretty excited about it and stopped in there acouple times and talked to Mac about it. Supposedly some variable exhaust valve he designed and patented. From what he says it worked very well. They never sold any kits. I don't know if you called and asked for info if they would be any help, might be worth a try.
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gus bohne
Well-known member
Exhaust backpressure is a function of work ( load ) on the engine.
In the turbos case the pressure build AS load is applied BUT volume DOES NOT go down.
Volume of flow AND pressure balance is PART of the equation.
when you have a NON load sensing compressor you overscavenge .
resitriction of the exhaust is NOT the problem OR the cure.
when you see supercharged 2 strokes in use or hear legends of the one that was and got banned,,, those in use are very very low rpm, low boost sales tools that are removed from the market quickly ,, the others are folklore.
Gus
bring it on,, just 1 is all it will take.. if it can beat a stocker it would at least be a step forward in the 30 years of hearsay.
In the turbos case the pressure build AS load is applied BUT volume DOES NOT go down.
Volume of flow AND pressure balance is PART of the equation.
when you have a NON load sensing compressor you overscavenge .
resitriction of the exhaust is NOT the problem OR the cure.
when you see supercharged 2 strokes in use or hear legends of the one that was and got banned,,, those in use are very very low rpm, low boost sales tools that are removed from the market quickly ,, the others are folklore.
Gus
bring it on,, just 1 is all it will take.. if it can beat a stocker it would at least be a step forward in the 30 years of hearsay.
no kidding, this poor subject has been beaten to death.
I personally just dont understand the the urge or interest in it.. yes, things can be figured out for making them work, just seems like an overly complex system that may or may not produce marginal results...
The pictures is not of the ripcharger. The rip charger is placed on the clutch side.
Yes we are aware that others are super charging two strokes. weather who was first or who was second does not matter to us. We are developing this kit and rip charger is developing there own. Both kits from what I have seen are very nice and as far as live in the field results there is reasons only few have seen them in action. Many have tried this particular setup time and time again only to come up short. As of now I know of only two that have accomplished this large feat. Hince the reason why some things are tight lipped.
We are not hear to start a bashing thread or whos better bs this is simply hear to inform others of what is soon to be released to the public.
As far as who did it first or whos idea it was. I really dont care. We had our kit designed and on the snow when we happened to come across a video on youtube about ripcharger. I have talked with Dennis from rip charger over the phone on a few things other then that, they have there design and ideas, and we have our own.
We work very closely with Procharger on many designs and ideas on all kinds of applications. A procharger is a self contained oil unit. The head unit we are using moves aprox 400-500 cfm.Our whole kit on the m8 takes 18 pounds off the sled and adds 22 making the kit 4 lbs heavier then a stock sled. As for performance we have only taken the sled to 4psi of boost as of right now. more info and videos to come soon.
As for our location being that we are in iowa has no relation to what and where and how we test our products. If you look closeley i would venture to say 50% of your performance shops are below 5,000ft. Our products on snow get tested from 380ft all the way up to 12k.
Yes we are aware that others are super charging two strokes. weather who was first or who was second does not matter to us. We are developing this kit and rip charger is developing there own. Both kits from what I have seen are very nice and as far as live in the field results there is reasons only few have seen them in action. Many have tried this particular setup time and time again only to come up short. As of now I know of only two that have accomplished this large feat. Hince the reason why some things are tight lipped.
We are not hear to start a bashing thread or whos better bs this is simply hear to inform others of what is soon to be released to the public.
As far as who did it first or whos idea it was. I really dont care. We had our kit designed and on the snow when we happened to come across a video on youtube about ripcharger. I have talked with Dennis from rip charger over the phone on a few things other then that, they have there design and ideas, and we have our own.
We work very closely with Procharger on many designs and ideas on all kinds of applications. A procharger is a self contained oil unit. The head unit we are using moves aprox 400-500 cfm.Our whole kit on the m8 takes 18 pounds off the sled and adds 22 making the kit 4 lbs heavier then a stock sled. As for performance we have only taken the sled to 4psi of boost as of right now. more info and videos to come soon.
As for our location being that we are in iowa has no relation to what and where and how we test our products. If you look closeley i would venture to say 50% of your performance shops are below 5,000ft. Our products on snow get tested from 380ft all the way up to 12k.
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JHG
Well-known member
How many people said this about your RX1/RT build? You went against the grain and it seems to have turnout for the best. Can you really not see the interest in huge linear horsepower gains on a two stroke snowmobile?
I dont know, I guess I just feel like a well setup turbo comes on plenty linear as it is... riden a SC nytro and it definately has a little mroe bottom end, just not enough in my mind to warrant the battle, but that is definately a choice for individuals. I do agree, going against the grain is definately a cool thing to do.. I just have a hard time with this one as it has been talked about SO much, and not a real shred of positive evidence.. show me that it can work even a little and we will be onto something.
as far as the demand, I bet even if it failed miserably, the sheer interest alone would sell tons of units.
my biggest issue is that it seems that there are some large hurtles to battle... risk/reward type deals, they would have to work DAMN well for me to want one. I do think the direct injection motors will allow this to be changed a little, possibly allowing for more practical tuning.. but who knows.. im still playing with a carbed 4 stroke!!
as far as the demand, I bet even if it failed miserably, the sheer interest alone would sell tons of units.
my biggest issue is that it seems that there are some large hurtles to battle... risk/reward type deals, they would have to work DAMN well for me to want one. I do think the direct injection motors will allow this to be changed a little, possibly allowing for more practical tuning.. but who knows.. im still playing with a carbed 4 stroke!!
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And How much CFM where they moving at 8 psi? This is a completely different game with a Procharger head unit. This procharger head unit has been know to take psi ratings up to 22 on similar applications. We are moving equivalent air flow to a GT28 at 8 psi Which almost every turbo kit out there is using at the current time.
Keep in mind Boost numbers are merely measured off of restriction. Total Volume of Air moved at the givin PSI number is the real back bone to a setup.
For example turbo company one runs a GT28 on a m8 making 8 psi claiming 180hp Turbo company two runs a GT28 on a m8 making 8 psi claiming 200hp? Both running same turbo same psi rating.
Now all kinds of scenarios fall into play.
Where is the boost number being read from?
What is the exhaust design?
What is the Charge pipe design?
And So on......
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JHG
Well-known member
I think you're going to see more of these next season, ripcharger has prototype units out with a couple race teams and they seem to be running well. The turbo scene sucked a couple years ago, sleds would rarely run well and they were to much for the average rider to maintain and keep running. I'm glad they didn't give up then or would wouldn't have the reliable setups we have today. Innovation in any direction is good for the sport and the final consumer.
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krom
Well-known member
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Judging by the massive number of exhaust spring hooks I'd say that can was just swapped in to hide your method of restricting exhaust... Would love to discuss this more but I'm not gonna pay to do it, maybe move this thread someplace a litter more friendly ...
