Article from the Laramie Boomerang on the meeting. http://www.laramieboomerang.com/articles/2010/01/27/news/doc4b5fde6d1b501852289367.txt
Snowy Range parking lot meeting today 1/26/10
- Thread starter bacobits
- Start date
i wrote a letter to this Duane Short guy. we'll see what he responds with and then i will post it. Glad to see the forest service agrees that snowmobilers have a right to be there also.
Being from Wisconsin we have our own battles here (mostly due to drunk sledders ruining it for others, but we are mostly an "on trail" state only and let me tell you it stinks - I don't even ride in my own state anymore). A couple things are interesting and maybe should be brought up with the County Commisioner:
1) If this is a public comment type meeting it needs to be published in advance at a number of proscribed venues (Including at least one local newspaper). This varies state by state but the general consensus is that a 2 week notice period is required to have a "Valid" public hearing.
2) Why is Biodiversity joint hosting a public forum meeting? Sounds to me like they can be a participant, but not a host (maybe this is just symantics).
3) Does this Short guy have any documented studies backing up his claims? It seems like some of the things he is claiming will take years of diligent studying to uncover accurately?
4) I had to laugh at Short's first reason: "Biodiversity opposes the parking lot for several reasons, the first because the Green Rock area has historically been a relatively quiet picnic area, Short said." I've only been there a couple times, but the only people I see picnicing are snowmobilers sitting on their sleds!
Those with the power to vote in that area, please keep up the good fight. It is because of people like you that myself and many others like me are are able to come and enjoy your beautiful backyard.
Thanks for your efforts!!!!!!
1) If this is a public comment type meeting it needs to be published in advance at a number of proscribed venues (Including at least one local newspaper). This varies state by state but the general consensus is that a 2 week notice period is required to have a "Valid" public hearing.
2) Why is Biodiversity joint hosting a public forum meeting? Sounds to me like they can be a participant, but not a host (maybe this is just symantics).
3) Does this Short guy have any documented studies backing up his claims? It seems like some of the things he is claiming will take years of diligent studying to uncover accurately?
4) I had to laugh at Short's first reason: "Biodiversity opposes the parking lot for several reasons, the first because the Green Rock area has historically been a relatively quiet picnic area, Short said." I've only been there a couple times, but the only people I see picnicing are snowmobilers sitting on their sleds!
Those with the power to vote in that area, please keep up the good fight. It is because of people like you that myself and many others like me are are able to come and enjoy your beautiful backyard.
Thanks for your efforts!!!!!!
There is a story behind the story about this meeting
Only if folks really want to hear how this meeting came about and how even one snowmobiler knew about this meeting I will explain. Be careful what you ask for unless you want to expose the friend you have in the U.S. Forest Service, Laramie District.
Only if folks really want to hear how this meeting came about and how even one snowmobiler knew about this meeting I will explain. Be careful what you ask for unless you want to expose the friend you have in the U.S. Forest Service, Laramie District.
So is it accurate to presume that all the USFS staff, other than "our friend", are actively working for what I call the eco-terrorists?
If that is the case, do not 'out' them. Government people are very retaliatory and would make that person's life hell & have the power of government to do it.
Additionally, if the enemy USFS are shown to be biased or bought, cannot legal action be taken against the specific staff memeber(s)?
.
I'm not up on all of this.......so bear with me. Is this Forest Service land that is being discussed? If so, then EVERYONE has a right to comment on it, and this should be getting out to ALL sledders so they can fire off an email to stand up for Public Use of Public Land.
True, but not reality.
The anti-use crowd (wilderness proponents, eco-terrorists, etc...) also work for the USFS and county. They don't want the argument in the open. They want total control. They believe the forest belongs to them alone. They don't care about others, businesses, people's rights...
Correct, It is Forest Service land that is being proposed for the Lot. Basically the last comment period was launched in late May early June, by design if you ask me. The sledders got hammered in the comment period as no one was paying attention. And your correct we need to get the word out, that's the hard part apparently!
The part that really bugs me is the meeting was announced in the local Laramie paper that morning. there was absolutely no heads up time from out county commissioners, so who's side are they on???
I don't want to expose anyone on the inside if they are in fact able and willing to help us. If they are please send me the info, I will bring it to the table!
The part that really bugs me is the meeting was announced in the local Laramie paper that morning. there was absolutely no heads up time from out county commissioners, so who's side are they on???
I don't want to expose anyone on the inside if they are in fact able and willing to help us. If they are please send me the info, I will bring it to the table!
Dont' forget that the USFS was specifically created as a "protection agency" for the forest a long time ago. Their original mission was to combat any type of potential forest destruction and was (and always has been) staffed by the liberal eco-types. The fact that there is 'someone' in the loop that cares enough to let sledders know they're about to be screwed is exceptional. This whole senario is starting to look like the eco-group will be the one that determines the final outcome of all this. Yep, and the USFS is a gubm't entity, so good luck fighting ANY decision that "they" come up with.
By the way, this "work session" with public comment was a set-up. If this was for real, the eco-group would NOT have had a seat at the table, but would have had to stand up to the podium just like you and me. My guess is that since the eco-leader is a councilman that he put this together to push HIS plan and is working under several different hats. Can you say conflict of interest?!?
By the way, this "work session" with public comment was a set-up. If this was for real, the eco-group would NOT have had a seat at the table, but would have had to stand up to the podium just like you and me. My guess is that since the eco-leader is a councilman that he put this together to push HIS plan and is working under several different hats. Can you say conflict of interest?!?
I'm well aware of how the enviro's work. I live in an area that is hit HARD continually by them. We're back in court yet again as they try to shorten our riding season even more.......Dec 1 to March 15. They lost in court last year, but the judge was kind enough to let them know WHY they lost, so it's back. 
We've lost a LOT of riding here.
I also know there are good and bad within the FS. You find the good ones, and you back them. I've became good friends with some around here. I also know they have to maintain a public stance on things, even though they may not agree (I've learned a lot).
We DO have a say, and if they are doing stuff behind closed doors with the zealots, that does NEED to be exposed. If your council is in on it, call them out. There should be meeting minutes.......that is public info you should have access to......FOIA (Freedom of Information Act).
We've lost a LOT of riding here.I also know there are good and bad within the FS. You find the good ones, and you back them. I've became good friends with some around here. I also know they have to maintain a public stance on things, even though they may not agree (I've learned a lot).
We DO have a say, and if they are doing stuff behind closed doors with the zealots, that does NEED to be exposed. If your council is in on it, call them out. There should be meeting minutes.......that is public info you should have access to......FOIA (Freedom of Information Act).
Comparing MN lakes to the Snowy Range lakes is like grapes vs. watermelons.
"If you gathered all of the ice fishing houses in Minnesota and plopped them onto one large lake, you'd create the third-largest city in the state."
http://www.startribune.com/15570662.html
We all need to pull together and make some changes.
I also agree that we all need to keep our riding area clean. A few pigs that leave beer cans and trail garbage lying out in the snow makes me gag and probably adds more fuel to the fire for the anti's.
Every tax payer should have a vote...that's the Democratic way. The idea is to get more voices for sledders to calm down the small group of anti's that have been smarter than us and making their voice louder.
"If you gathered all of the ice fishing houses in Minnesota and plopped them onto one large lake, you'd create the third-largest city in the state."
http://www.startribune.com/15570662.html
We all need to pull together and make some changes.
I also agree that we all need to keep our riding area clean. A few pigs that leave beer cans and trail garbage lying out in the snow makes me gag and probably adds more fuel to the fire for the anti's.
Every tax payer should have a vote...that's the Democratic way. The idea is to get more voices for sledders to calm down the small group of anti's that have been smarter than us and making their voice louder.
B
bacobits
Well-known member
Tuesday morning I saw the article in the paper, and since it was such short notice I figured I would throw it on snowest before I went to work, just as a headsup, had no inside info. A friend of mine called the f.s. last week, they told him that at that time no meetings were planned. Something changed that over the weekend.
Snowmobilers around here have been dealing with biodiversity(used to be Friends of the Bow years ago) for a long time. In the 23 yrs I've been here they have waisted alot of peoples time & money and we(sledders) are STILL HERE .Just got keep up the battle, it's never ending. I know I should include almost anyone using the forest, if it was up to them it would be off limits to everybody, and everything, but this is a winter issue right now.
This could turn into a 10 page rant, so back to work. Dr. says watch the blood pressure. Going to play in the powder tmrw and toast Mr. Short
Snowmobilers around here have been dealing with biodiversity(used to be Friends of the Bow years ago) for a long time. In the 23 yrs I've been here they have waisted alot of peoples time & money and we(sledders) are STILL HERE .Just got keep up the battle, it's never ending. I know I should include almost anyone using the forest, if it was up to them it would be off limits to everybody, and everything, but this is a winter issue right now.
This could turn into a 10 page rant, so back to work. Dr. says watch the blood pressure. Going to play in the powder tmrw and toast Mr. Short
Public Meeting Law
What happened to the public meeting law?? it seems BCA advertised the meeting on thier website on Jan 21st, Stating" Albany County Commisioners invite you to attend"
BCA News Alert- http://www.voiceforthewild.org/general/alerts/a21January2010.html
You guys that live in Albany County need to raise the roof on your County Commisioners- that should not have happened. Public meeting laws are very specific.
What happened to the public meeting law?? it seems BCA advertised the meeting on thier website on Jan 21st, Stating" Albany County Commisioners invite you to attend"
BCA News Alert- http://www.voiceforthewild.org/general/alerts/a21January2010.html
You guys that live in Albany County need to raise the roof on your County Commisioners- that should not have happened. Public meeting laws are very specific.
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That's what I was refering to in my last post. The "voice" for the BCA is ALSO a County Commisioner....
Brings to light a whole new aspect of "back door" activity, don't it?
Albany county has three commissioners according to their website. Pat Gabriel,
Tim Sullivan and Tim Chesnut. Erik Molvar (BCA) is a Laramie City Councilman so different branch of the local Government. Am I missing something?
Also anyone out there familiar with open meeting laws?
Tim Sullivan and Tim Chesnut. Erik Molvar (BCA) is a Laramie City Councilman so different branch of the local Government. Am I missing something?
Also anyone out there familiar with open meeting laws?
What were the people of Laramie thinking when they elected that perosn to the city council???
I'm sorry I'm not feeling much simpathy for the city residents- Except the cool people here in the forum!!!
I'm sorry I'm not feeling much simpathy for the city residents- Except the cool people here in the forum!!!
I'm so mad after reading this I can't post what I'm thinking. We need a form letter written and handed out to all of the club members. All of the members should then sign it and return a copy to the USFS, Albany County Commissioners, and WYDOT. This would follow the same steps that the BCA took last year to get 94% of the people to say they were against any parking changes.
Maybe this idea has been presented; if so disregard. How about a passing lane added to 130 going up the hill. It would be a multi-use asset, have less impact on the scenic by-way aspect. I'm not sure about the costs compared to building a parking lot. My guess would be that it would also be a state and federal project.
OCD's letter idea is something we can do---say a banner advertising a sign-up on a trailer at Greenrock, Albany, and Chains end on a Saturday. Can you imagine how many signatures could be garnered.
OCD's letter idea is something we can do---say a banner advertising a sign-up on a trailer at Greenrock, Albany, and Chains end on a Saturday. Can you imagine how many signatures could be garnered.
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