Snow Park meeting in Woodland Wa, 2-2

[Snow Shark]

There is a meeting about plowing the roads to cougar and marble snowparks, Saturday. It is at the Best Western conference room in Woodland,Wa on Saturday Feb. 3,2008 at 8:00am.

Please atend if you can, we can voice our concerns about the wasteful practices of hiring the "contractor". to remove snow.

I think we should suggest plowing a lower snowpark and letting the groomer groom the road from the 90 to the snowpark.


Thanks

Dyarle

 

[rmkboxer]

I can't make it down there but I would say cut back on the grooming and plow, you aren't on the road for that far there and I would much rather ride on a ungroomed trail then not beable to park at the snow park. JMO.

 

[CastleRocker]

Where is the Best Western conference room? Is it by the Lamiglass store?

Thanks!

 

[mgexc39cat]

What's the verdict on the plowing to Marble etc?.

 

[Snowsharkette]

No more money. The budget is bogus. I'm going to rerun the numbers. They "lost" $114,000.00 and just realized it yesterday. They have $169,000 to repair and replace equipment but don't want to dip into it. They passed a motion to not dip into next year's budget to cover this year's short fall and had no real solutions.

One of the members kept making jokes about losing the $114,000 and I put a stop to that. They don't get it. This is not a laughing matter. They now have to bring someone in to "teach" them how to read and understand their own budget. Apparently the majority of them are incapable of understanding how their own budget works.

Their "Summer" meeting is too early to prepare the budget so I told them to change their fiscal year and the joker suggested that I talk to my governor. I let him know that she is not my governor. However, by the time I left I had the distinct impression that many of them have the same attitude toward their job as the governor.

I brought up clear inconsistencies locally where a county claimed to have plowed when they didn't and apparently there is no local verification or accountability for any of the plowers to make sure they are actually doing the job they are contracted to do.

The contractor plowing Crystal Springs has not sent in an invoice for payment the entire season. Apparently this is common throughout the state. As a result, they have no idea how much money they have, or don't have left and have no intention of allocating additional; funds. I left at 3:34 p.m. and they were still going at it. I can't imagine anything productive resulted.

We're putting the sled deck on the truck and parking on the side of the road.

 

[mgexc39cat]

No more money. The budget is bogus. I'm going to rerun the numbers. They "lost" $114,000.00 and just realized it yesterday. They have $169,000 to repair and replace equipment but don't want to dip into it. They passed a motion to not dip into next year's budget to cover this year's short fall and had no real solutions.

One of the members kept making jokes about losing the $114,000 and I put a stop to that. They don't get it. This is not a laughing matter. They now have to bring someone in to "teach" them how to read and understand their own budget. Apparently the majority of them are incapable of understanding how their own budget works.

Their "Summer" meeting is too early to prepare the budget so I told them to change their fiscal year and the joker suggested that I talk to my governor. I let him know that she is not my governor. However, by the time I left I had the distinct impression that many of them have the same attitude toward their job as the governor.

I brought up clear inconsistencies locally where a county claimed to have plowed when they didn't and apparently there is no local verification or accountability for any of the plowers to make sure they are actually doing the job they are contracted to do.

The contractor plowing Crystal Springs has not sent in an invoice for payment the entire season. Apparently this is common throughout the state. As a result, they have no idea how much money they have, or don't have left and have no intention of allocating additional; funds. I left at 3:34 p.m. and they were still going at it. I can't imagine anything productive resulted.

We're putting the sled deck on the truck and parking on the side of the road.

Thanks for going to the meeting and sharing the info. the State needs a good
spanking like a bad kid with his hand in the cookie jar,not knowing how he ate.

 

[Snowsharkette]

The problem is that they should know. If they are going to be on the comittee they are responsible for making sure they know.

Meanwhile, we are all left without sufficient if any parking and still no one is paying attention to how much and whose hands are in the cookie jar.

It is not the state. It is the comittee and their leader.

 

[JETJOHNSO]

I was at the same meeting90

Funny, I was at the same meeting and I thought everything was explained very well. The $114,000 went to pay bills from last year. It didnt vanish, it was there but got spent, The fiscal year thing cant be changed with out going to the govenor, thats just the way it is. Thats the way the state runs. Also how do you expect the grooming committe to be up at your snow park "checking" on the plowing, thats up the the grooming cordinator for your area, if he doesnt say something , than things must be ok, now it's a little late to complain about him. If you all were not happy you should have called state parks a month ago. You all are not alone on the plowing thing. We have run out at greenwater also, its a mess up there, You all think you have the only snopark in the state thats got snow. Give me a brake !! Just about every snopark in the state has been buried in. Do you have any idea how much it's snowed this year, it's a very hard year due to all the snow. And there is only $65,000 in the reserve replacement account. not $ 169,000. I'm sure after they figure out where we are right now, you will get plowed out from the reserve replacement account, I dont think anyone had a problem with that.

 

[rmkboxer]

Funny, I was at the same meeting and I thought everything was explained very well. The $114,000 went to pay bills from last year. It didnt vanish, it was there but got spent, The fiscal year thing cant be changed with out going to the govenor, thats just the way it is. Thats the way the state runs. Also how do you expect the grooming committe to be up at your snow park "checking" on the plowing, thats up the the grooming cordinator for your area, if he doesnt say something , than things must be ok, now it's a little late to complain about him. If you all were not happy you should have called state parks a month ago. You all are not alone on the plowing thing. We have run out at greenwater also, its a mess up there, You all think you have the only snopark in the state thats got snow. Give me a brake !! Just about every snopark in the state has been buried in. Do you have any idea how much it's snowed this year, it's a very hard year due to all the snow. And there is only $65,000 in the reserve replacement account. not $ 169,000. I'm sure after they figure out where we are right now, you will get plowed out from the reserve replacement account, I dont think anyone had a problem with that.

sometimes people get so worked up they miss half of what is said. 2 different versions of the same meeting. I would have gone but had obligations already. it seems like we are getting screwed and in some cases we probably are but with deisel prices so high. I can see why we are out of money.

 

[Snowsharkette]

The $114,000 was in the budget until the day before the meeting when they "discovered" it. That is lost money paid out from last season because of late invoices they failed to anticipate or account for which is not available to us this year when we really need it.

It is compete ignorance for a committee to have a budget meeting without having their budgeted allocation numbers from the state. The meeting should be a full 30 days later so they don't continue to rack up "travel expenses" for yet another meeting they are unprepared for.

First of all, our "area rep" who is on the board, was fully aware of the situation prior to it reaching the point you saw at the meeting. He failed to address the contractor issues and continues to fail to hold the contractor accountable. He knew. I knew. All the locals knew. What we didn't know is that our "rep" was going to be so ineffective.

I don't appreciate the sarcasm. If you were at the meeting than you are aware that the state is being billed for work not completed as contracted by a local county and private contractor. That is the issue. You never heard me say, allude to or suggest that we were the only area with snow. I was and am prepared to find solutions. The first is to address the competency, or lack thereof, of some of the board members. The fact that the majority do not have basic high school accounting competency is pretty frightening.

There is $192,297 in the Major Repairs Emergency Reserve Fund. Gotta fax? I'll fax you the page from the hand out.

They lost track of $114,000! Inexcusable at any level.

They are over budget again this year. They have no invoices from multiple contractors and no records of what bills they anticipate. Apparently you missed the part where they told us to raise our own private funds to pay for our plowing.

You can't just tell part of the story. Tell the whole story so the changes needing to be made can be accomplished. Unlike the memo from 13 years ago one attendee brought showing that they were dealing with these same issues then. Clearly change needs to be made.

If you want a copy of the e-mail where Skamania County claimed to have plowed when they didn't I'll forward that to you as well.

This is not a joke. $2,000,000 plus dollars of our hard earned money is being mishandled. That is something you simply can't explain away.

 

[mrquick68]

Jet and sharkette -

I was not at the meeting, and appreciate both your attendance. We obviously have issues in the system. What i don't understand though - Jet why are you sticking up for a system that obviously has flaws in it? I know you operate your own business and give a lot back to the sledding community, but there's obviously problems. Are you the rep? Is that why are you sticking up for them? Regardless of your position, what can you add that will help as constructive suggestions? Let's define the problems and come up with solutions. Chit, maybe i should start my own plowing/gromming company? Sounds like a normal operation to me. Estimate based on averages, bill monthly, cover the costs of doing business, and have a plan when its snows less than normal, and have a plan for when it snows more. It's not like they are buidling high rises!? The budget needs to account for the changes in weather and uncertainities, the responsibility of the State, as they hold purse strings. The contractor needs to manage his work, and submit "scope impacts" when unforeseen problems occurs. This is how contracting works. If they don't know this, then fire them and hire someone how knows how to run damn business.

I work in the world of contractors myself and i know that some are great, but tons are bad, especially the ones that work for the state (no offense to anyone this applies to, just my experience). There is lack of accountability and a lot of behind the scenes deal making that really limits the effectiveness of the money put into the system. it sounds like the budget is around $1.1 million dollars annually (my calculated guess), which sounds like a lot but, might not be enough. Doesn't the state audit the contractors? If the only problem is the lack of money, then we need to up the fees. But it really sounds like its more inefficencies and poor decision making that is limiting the program. isn't the state auditting the contractors? It sounds like another "pay grade employee" managed cluster to me. There is no accountability in a system when the people managing it having nothing to gain/loose by doing the best they can do - they get paid either way. That's the problem with state/government managed programs like this... Bringing in contractors can help, but not if there isn't accountability. It seems like the state is doing as little as possible to get their pay check...

Welcome to WA - the worst run state in Union.

If we were cross-country skiers, this wouldn't be a problem because then the state employees would be personally interested in the actual problem (we all know the state in run by click-clicks anyway).

All this to say, that the program sounds like it is in dire need of an overhaul. let us know what we can do to help, as ranting like i just did won't accomplish anything without action.

 

[Kiki Shackleton]

The "Click Clicks"

Just a fast response from a sledhead and a "Click Click". To the guy who said the problem we are experiencing these Sno Park problems because the state is run by “click clicks”. You should know that the non-motorized users are just as, if not more, upset as everyone else. I pay something like $40.00 bucks to register my sled every season. I received two Sno Park passes for my money. Because I also enjoy skate skiing and backcountry out of Cabin Creek, I purchased an additional $60.00 special grooming pass (that is the amount that the non-motorized users pay, by the way). The N.M. rates were increased this season and our services decreased. We aren’t getting near the “special” grooming services that we received last season. Also, the dog sled folks have it the worst. Theypay 60 bucks for three miles of groomed non-motorized trails out of Crystal Springs (by the way, those three miles are the only non-motorized groomed runs open to the dog sledders in the state. Seems like 60 bucks is a bit steep for three miles)!

Like you all, I enjoy winter almost more than summer! I love just about every aspect of the season (except for the shoveling!). Most of the backcountry skiers I know actually support the motorized program and share the trails in peace. There are “name-callers” in every sport, but the majority of the users our there just want to get along and slide on the snow their own way. I just thought I would make it clear that the State of Washington has received a record number of complaints from the “click-clicks” too. No one is happy the way the winter recreation program is being managed. Rumor also has it, there is so much internal bickering and posturing going on, that nothing is getting done, and the users are the ones getting the short end of the stick.

Everyone understands this is THE BEST SNOW YEAR since 1996, and we can all agree that the work the DOT, state, and private contractors have to suffer through is epic, but there were problems before this record snowfall.

Just wanted to give a click click view of things. Ride On!

 

[mrquick68]

Thanks for filling us in. i've wrong once before . I'm getting used to it. Sounds like i was right about the inefficiencies of the state though! Typical.

 

[Ice Cap]

Would somebody that is on top of what is going on PLEASE contact one or all of the major TV stations in the Seattle area and see if they are interested in doing a story on the mis-management of the funds/winter recreation program?

 

[ericbigbore]

Would somebody that is on top of what is going on PLEASE contact one or all of the major TV stations in the Seattle area and see if they are interested in doing a story on the mis-management of the funds/winter recreation program?

I agree that they might take the story as it falls in the whole (wicked winter of 2008).

I want to personaly thank those who are following up on these issues. If I have to start parking in the chain up areas to go riding, Im going to.

 

[Kiki Shackleton]

You can make a difference... I think.

I wrote a letter (e-mail first... received no reply, so I followed it up with a snail mail and received a phone call!) to the State Parks. We really need to band together and take the time to write to the WA State Parks. Let your voice be heard. Those letters, especially snail mail letters, make a huge impact in the government system. Remember to be polite and systematically cover your complaints and concerns. Don’t let them tell you that all the problems are weather related; the problems have been piling up since December 1st. Here is the address: Washington State Parks Winter Recreation Program, 7150 Cleanwater Dr. SW, POB 42650, Olympia, WA 98504-2650.

On the bright side, the snow was great today!!! Keep it coming!

Braaap, slide, grind, and glide! Sno-Fest 2008! Be safe!

 

[Pumpkinpatch]

Other grooming/plowing

I have been thinking and maybe somebody already knows the answer, how do states like Montana & Wyoming pay for their grooming? I've been to West Yellowstone/Big Sky area and from what I recall, it seems like they groom most of the week to keep the trails nice. I would also think that the midwest states would have this problem figured out as to how much the user has to pay, especially since they have thousands of miles to groom and plow. Just my .02..........

P.P.

 

[JETJOHNSO]

Yes The System Needs Repairs

Trust me I may sound like I am sticking up for them but in reality no. I know there are lots of problems thru out the system. BUT it's still a pretty darn good program concidering, Like you said, YOUR own rep let you down. How can you "beat" on the board because of the poor quality or lack of plowing in your area. They cant and wont , go out and check, THATS YOUR CORDINATORS or the people involved's responsiblilty. Here you are blaming the board and state parks for the bad management you have had in your area. How can you possibley blame them for that.?? Like I said, they dont know there's a problem if no one makes the call. Now we get the worst winter in 11 years and now people are out raged, Ya know , We've been saying for 2 years we need more money in the program, but nobody wanted to listen. How could we possibly have known , sitting in a meeting in 100 degree's in yakima in late July we would have this kind of winter,?? I will make sure at the meeting in July this year that you bring your crystal ball and help us out. @#$%^&@! Boy this upsets me when people jump in after all we've done for years and tear the manure out of a program they hardly know anthing about. I glad you want to get involed, we need more people to do that. Happy trails, I'm sure something will get worked out. As for me I'm off to another meeting tonight to see what we can do at greenwater, No plowing money there either.

 

[Ice Cap]

I have been thinking and maybe somebody already knows the answer, how do states like Montana & Wyoming pay for their grooming? I've been to West Yellowstone/Big Sky area and from what I recall, it seems like they groom most of the week to keep the trails nice. I would also think that the midwest states would have this problem figured out as to how much the user has to pay, especially since they have thousands of miles to groom and plow. Just my .02..........

P.P.

Good qestions PP.
Maybe WA needs to overhaul their program and model it after other states successful programs

 

[ericbigbore]

Trust me I may sound like I am sticking up for them but in reality no. I know there are lots of problems thru out the system. BUT it's still a pretty darn good program concidering, Like you said, YOUR own rep let you down. How can you "beat" on the board because of the poor quality or lack of plowing in your area. They cant and wont , go out and check, THATS YOUR CORDINATORS or the people involved's responsiblilty. Here you are blaming the board and state parks for the bad management you have had in your area. How can you possibley blame them for that.?? Like I said, they dont know there's a problem if no one makes the call. Now we get the worst winter in 11 years and now people are out raged, Ya know , We've been saying for 2 years we need more money in the program, but nobody wanted to listen. How could we possibly have known , sitting in a meeting in 100 degree's in yakima in late July we would have this kind of winter,?? I will make sure at the meeting in July this year that you bring your crystal ball and help us out. @#$%^&@! Boy this upsets me when people jump in after all we've done for years and tear the manure out of a program they hardly know anthing about. I glad you want to get involed, we need more people to do that. Happy trails, I'm sure something will get worked out. As for me I'm off to another meeting tonight to see what we can do at greenwater, No plowing money there either.

You do sound like you are sticking up for a broken program. Tell me please, where does the $75000 we are paying for enforcement come from?