Skinz....we still have a problem.

[tmk50]

i find it totally bizarre that a few guys are breaking more than one & some not at all. you would think if they are breaking so easy on some guys that all of us would have broke them within a few hundred miles if it was just the heim being to light.i have had mine 20ft in the air & ride very rough trails whacked a few trees , stuck the skies in the bank hard once & ran into the back of a poo pro.just seems random,not pointing the finger or defending anyone but just looking for answers.

Same here - I haven't babied my sled, but I haven't slammed into anything hard either.

~400 miles and mine have held up fine. I really like the way my sled handles with this front end on it.

 

[scmurs]

Just for argument's sake, let's look at this from a different perspective. Years ago I took a college course called "Ethics in Engineering". We discussed acceptable failure rates with designs. This was during the time of the Ford/Bridgestone fiasco with the tires on the Bronco SUV. Let's just say there was plenty of ethics to discuss on what was acceptable in that mess.

Anyway, I digress. All mechanical designs have a "fail point". Since I have dealt first hand with a few of these heim joint failures, I feel I have some insight in to the situation. On the front end, you have three possible failure points: the subframe, the a-arms or the heim joints. One of these things has to be the weakest link. In the case of the OEM suspension, it has more often than not been the subframe. With the SPG front end, it has been the heim joint on a few occasions.

With those failures on the SPG front end, not once have I heard of a bent/damaged subframe in conjunction with the heim joint failure. So, the question is, what should be the weak point in the design? There are over 250 of the Concept front end kits out there on the snow. I know of about 7 failures on the original 1/2" heim joints, 2 of the updated 1/2" heim joints and 1 of the 5/8". There has also been one failure of a lower a-arm. No one has reported a bent subframe on any of these other failures. Let's face it, we hit a lot of stuff with a 550-600# machine and a 175-???# rider. Like Roest said, any number of circumstances could cause a failure.

I believe that Skinz has reacted in an acceptable manner by replacing all of the original 1/2" heim joints and then further more by changing to the 5/8" heim joints, as well as, offering free upgrades to the 5/8" joints to existing Concept owners.

Myself, I'm still running the original "bad" 1/2" heim joints on two different sleds. I have beat the pi$$ out of them and cannot seem to break one.

And yes, I love the way it handles now

Food for thought.

Scott

 

[Trax 2 Treadz]

We are running 2 nytro's as well with the "original" 1/2 inch heim joints. I have hit some doozy rocks, rolled my sled and even did some inadvertent "logging" and my original heim joints are still intact. Believe me everytime I hit something I stop and check my heim joints!! So far so good I am to the point now that I don't worry about them anymore.

It's like Scott said though something is going to give if you hit an inert object hard enough. I actually bent and twisted the subframe on my sled last year after hitting a tree. We pulled the sled out and the a-arms looked golden and I thought I was the luckiest girl in the world to get out of that hit with no damage. It wasn't until the sled was tore down this summer down at Skinz that the true damage was found.

Jan

 

[jsandgren10]

Just for argument's sake, let's look at this from a different perspective. Years ago I took a college course called "Ethics in Engineering". We discussed acceptable failure rates with designs. This was during the time of the Ford/Bridgestone fiasco with the tires on the Bronco SUV. Let's just say there was plenty of ethics to discuss on what was acceptable in that mess.

Anyway, I digress. All mechanical designs have a "fail point". Since I have dealt first hand with a few of these heim joint failures, I feel I have some insight in to the situation. On the front end, you have three possible failure points: the subframe, the a-arms or the heim joints. One of these things has to be the weakest link. In the case of the OEM suspension, it has more often than not been the subframe. With the SPG front end, it has been the heim joint on a few occasions.

With those failures on the SPG front end, not once have I heard of a bent/damaged subframe in conjunction with the heim joint failure. So, the question is, what should be the weak point in the design? There are over 250 of the Concept front end kits out there on the snow. I know of about 7 failures on the original 1/2" heim joints, 2 of the updated 1/2" heim joints and 1 of the 5/8". There has also been one failure of a lower a-arm. No one has reported a bent subframe on any of these other failures. Let's face it, we hit a lot of stuff with a 550-600# machine and a 175-???# rider. Like Roest said, any number of circumstances could cause a failure.

I believe that Skinz has reacted in an acceptable manner by replacing all of the original 1/2" heim joints and then further more by changing to the 5/8" heim joints, as well as, offering free upgrades to the 5/8" joints to existing Concept owners.

Myself, I'm still running the original "bad" 1/2" heim joints on two different sleds. I have beat the pi$$ out of them and cannot seem to break one.

And yes, I love the way it handles now

Food for thought.

Scott

I agree something has to be a weak point but I would rather bend an a ARM than snap a heims clean off. If the heim bent I would prefer that. Just to me snapping a heim is a lot more dangerous than bending a a ARM or sub frame.

I was with b_sandgren when it broke and we were only going like 20-25mph. The small tree he hit is stuff I have hit many times. I do think the 5/8" heim is a better option and know skinz has been standing behind their product which is great to see.

I agree the failure rates are low and just think those who broke one are wanting to make sure it won't happen again.

 

[TRUEBLUEMAX]

I saw that somebody broke a lower ball joint on one of the Zbroz kits also. I wonder if there is something about moving the spindle forward that is putting extra stress on the lower joint??? I will say that the arms are pretty strong. I ran over a tree last week that was about two inches at a fairly high rate of speed, with no bending at all.

I love the kit and what it does for the manners of the sled.

 

[M C]

This front end rocks!! its a completely different sled

 

[pylon]

just installed the skinz front end tonight . looks like it will work great and cant wait to get it on the snow sunday . i was pretty surprised how light duty it looked compared to my CR racing front end its replacing , hope it holds up

 

[ruffryder]

just installed the skinz front end tonight . looks like it will work great and cant wait to get it on the snow sunday . i was pretty surprised how light duty it looked compared to my CR racing front end its replacing , hope it holds up

Can you expand on what you thought was light duty? What parts?

 

[pylon]

most of it was the heim joints . the top ones that come on th cr arms are the same as the lowers on the skinz . the heim joints themselves also just look beefier over all . Whats up with no grease fittings for 1000$??????

 

[judger101]

that would just add weight

 

[carlnytro]

I have got about 600 miles on the SKinz front end 2008 Nytro running Impulse Turbo System. I have hit a few rocks and trees. I have had ski hit solid piece of dead wood & leave ski past verticle. To my surprise did not bend or break anything on front end. I have the updated 1/2" heim joints & will update to the 5/8" at end of season. The Skinz front end made a huge difference in riding the sled. It works great getting to the mountain, side hilling, boondocking and predictable when climbing. With all that said after each ride I notice the jam nuts will loosen up at the lower heim joint and I put a lot torque getting these jam nuts tight. This may contribute to some of the heim joint failures with those nuts loosening. Also note upper heim joint is cutting into the through bolt spacer. Don't know if anybody else has seen this. I need to talk to Skinz on this situation. I run the Exit shocks. Great product and support.