Riot trenching
- Thread starter Specialkman2day
- Start date
I am curious what my stock springs would feel like with more air at it. Maybe I will just swap forks with my buddy for one ride.That would be by far the easiest way to do it. He is stock with air pro but on an aro kit.
I'm used to the valving now, but I remember the first few rides on valved and sprung forks vs. just sprung forks.
With valving it is much more supple and plush in the initial part of the stroke, makes trail riding much nicer, yet bottoms far less (if ever) on big hits. I'm sure my forks have bottomed, but I never feel it and they've taken some massive hits.
That means you have a stock or slightly stiffer base valve stack for mx and added float on the mid valve. That's a great setup for desert racing also. By adding float the valve stack has more room to slide on a return spring before it stops and oil has to bend the shims. Moving from .1mm to .3 to .5mm of float makes initial bumps soft and smooth... But the valving is still stiff once that initial surge of oil maxes out the travel of the stack on the shaft.
If you guys want to do your own valving there are great articles from race tech online to learn more about this. A quick Google in mid valve float will find some nice reading on it.
I valve all my own suspension now and little changes like that are pretty easy.
If you guys want to do your own valving there are great articles from race tech online to learn more about this. A quick Google in mid valve float will find some nice reading on it.
I valve all my own suspension now and little changes like that are pretty easy.
CMX has a light front end and does not trench. I"m not all surprised by this and add to it that the Riot only comes in a 120. So glad I didn't fall for the hype and stuck with my decision to get a CMX.
The CMX is definitely a great kit. Pretty much can’t go wrong. Don’t be fooled by the title of this thread. The riot can be set up to trench or set up not to trench. The 120 is definitely part of it but I am super happy with my riot. My current wishes are for a 3 inch track, a 124 inch length, and a button on the handle bar that I could switch the rear shock-clicker back-and-forth with.
If the forks are an inch above the clamps and it's trenching just whip out a 10mm and slide them down until their flush and repeat the test run... Don't wait until the next ride. Snow conditions might change by then and you will be totally confused and spread incorrect setup info to others.
If trenching does improve try to quantify if the improvement is worth any loss of playfulness.
If trenching does improve try to quantify if the improvement is worth any loss of playfulness.
Thank you, thank you, thank you all... I appreciate all your responses and insight. There's so much experience and knowledge on this forum. I love it. It really helps to know what direction to go to get this thing set up right... I really do feel like the riot kit is a blast and has the potential to be pretty great in all conditions when set up right. There really is an almost infinite amount of adjusting a person can do, between fork height and stiffness and spring preload on the track and strut length, and mess with one thing and it affects others... I'll do some testing this weekend and report back
If anyone else with a riot wants to chime in on their experience or set up tips, I'd love to hear it!
If anyone else with a riot wants to chime in on their experience or set up tips, I'd love to hear it!
I was at the ts demo ride yesterday and rode a million different bikes. Most of the demo bikes (even the riots) were setup with too much ski pressure. None of them worked better at not trenching in the deep baseless fluff than my base riot in wheelie mode. The riot le with a locked rear shock was almost as good as the aro 3 but you just can't leave the shocked locked... It's miserable. If you can tolerate riding a locked riot or any thing that isn't set up in wheelie mode then just get the aro3 instead. It definately has a slight advantage climbing vertical stuff in first gear with no base. Once we got moving my bike was faster than the aro 3 even in deep snow. The 3 inch track needs a lot of hp.
regardless of what you get. set up is everything. The best bike I tested was actually not one of the demo bikes. It was a yz450 riot le tss and No trio. It was set up with much less ski pressure. I don't know the specifics but The back axle was almost off the ground with the rider on the bike. Rear clicker in the middle tss oring was only moving 1/2" so probably fairly high pressure but shorter strut length.
regardless of what you get. set up is everything. The best bike I tested was actually not one of the demo bikes. It was a yz450 riot le tss and No trio. It was set up with much less ski pressure. I don't know the specifics but The back axle was almost off the ground with the rider on the bike. Rear clicker in the middle tss oring was only moving 1/2" so probably fairly high pressure but shorter strut length.
I forgot to clarify the reason my bike might be working better in wheelie mode then others is possible because it's a 2 stroke and All my gas is in the rear on top of the track so it is lighter on the front then anything out there. It is closer to how a sleds weight is carried so not as much has to be lifted by the front of the track in wheelie mode to get on top of the snow.
Yesterday 6" of new at the truck and 20" or more as we climbed and rode trails. Drifts on some ridge tops all tracks from sleds last week. gone ! Wooped sled road..........buried.
Dan and I traded bikes throughout the day. my Riot his Aro. We both agreed that the riot wanted to lift the front end when on the gas, the aro wanted to shove you forward... kind of a subtle difference but back and forth in a lot of conditions, we both agreed.
Longer strut on the Riot.....helped a little. Stiffer rear spring setting seemed to be heading the right direction but not enough spring to made a significance difference. Check out on trail setting back in the garage, just slightly more weight on the back of the track.
Cutting long steep downhill side hills, with all my engine covers, I looked down, engine temp 102 degrees !
So for next week, going to tighten up my engine covers.
Ordered 105 lb rear shock spring. Gota keep trying.
overall, the riot goes good through the snow.
Dan and I traded bikes throughout the day. my Riot his Aro. We both agreed that the riot wanted to lift the front end when on the gas, the aro wanted to shove you forward... kind of a subtle difference but back and forth in a lot of conditions, we both agreed.
Longer strut on the Riot.....helped a little. Stiffer rear spring setting seemed to be heading the right direction but not enough spring to made a significance difference. Check out on trail setting back in the garage, just slightly more weight on the back of the track.
Cutting long steep downhill side hills, with all my engine covers, I looked down, engine temp 102 degrees !
So for next week, going to tighten up my engine covers.
Ordered 105 lb rear shock spring. Gota keep trying.
overall, the riot goes good through the snow.
the riot is doing exactly what its designed to do "Wheelie ",Its not a powder setup , will never be.
A stiffer rear spring with less preload might work. In theory I wont wheelie as easy but lack of preload should keep the ski lighther than the aro most of the time. The wheelie isn't the only fun thing about rioting, even the downhill off throttle ski pressure is less than aro so it gives big confidence and safety in low snow pack log hoping and creek crossing. The aro still has that ripping the ski off sensation every time the carbide touches something. My riot goes over that stuff like a tire. No worries at all.
The single arm rear suspension was not designed to be a wheelie machine, the design goal was a rear suspension skid that would follow ground contour better than a two arm system. And, I think it has that potential, just got to find the right combination. I built 4 kits from scratch and under estimated the requirements for the shocks. I built the first 4 fox shocks for these kits with way toooo soft springing and valving, wouldn't really go through the snow that great but good for wheelies. We used 2013 cat skids for those kits and in the end had to use the same spring rates as the sleds when stock and even with crappy tracks we improved the through the snow go considerably.
My opinion is the riot is as good as aro in pow with the shock locked. It just need unlocked 90 percent of the day. A handle bar switch would make aro obsolete.
Most folks don't understand the advantage of the long swingarm on the riot. When you grab throttle on the aro the short swingarm & steep angle crates MORE wheelie than a riot so they have to over compensate with a stiffer rear spring to keep the front end down.
The long flat angle of the riot swingarm keeps the forces neutral under throttle so the rear spring can be much softer. that create less change from on/off throttle so the off throttle ski pressure can be tuned much less even if on throttle lift is tuned like aro. A riot can be easily tuned to not wheelie if that's your thing and will still be more fun than aro.
Remeber the ezryde sled skid had basically a riot swingarm. They floated and climbed better than anything. They wouldn't wheelie at all because the rear spring was way stiffer and most of them were in Yamaha's...
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My YZ 450 F was designed for racing around a dirt track. Works pretty damn well in the snow though.
Without starting a short track/long track war here, question, would the Riot benefit from being a 129
