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Review of KISS Coupler on 163 AXYS

Teth-Air

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Premium Member
Like the title says I have a KISS Coupler on my AXYS. Delivery was pretty fast but it came with no instructions so I had to find them on Zbros Racing website and print off myself.

Install:

Install is pretty easy except the instructions say to install at 2.2 inch measurement and I found using decimals with inches less than convenient if you don't have an appropriate caliper handy.

Secondly I had much reservations about cutting off the limit stop for the scissor arm. I knew if I ever want to return to stock it means a weld job or a new part.

Finally the coupler has bolts in each end and lock washers? This made no sense to me as the beauty of this device is that I can easily control the suspension transfer and change it when riding different terrain. I did not tighten the bolts all the way and used Red Loctite on the threads so I could still turn the aluminum shaft. This worked really well and I could turn it by hand but it never moved on its own.

Effectiveness:

I am very sold on the effectiveness and really enjoyed dialing to max. coupling for steep climbs and down 2 settings for trail riding in and out. If I did not dial it down on rough trail the suspension would fell harsh. This device really helped the AXYS stay in control when climbing through the tight trees.

Problems:

Unfortunately I don't think Zbroz tested this coupler enough before releasing it for the AXYS. The coupler I got has damaged my track and suspension. The scissor bent and cracked on both sides. I now have had to remove it, weld it and reinforce it with 1/2" angle iron from the scissor bolt to the limiter bolt. I talked to Nate at Zbroz Racing and he told me that the part I got was probably out of spec with the 2 nylon contact blocks too far apart. This wide spread of the blocks caused them only to contact the outside edges of the scissor arm, causing it to bend and break. Secondly included in the kit is a stainless steel cross shaft that goes in front of the lower scissor arm bracket as a new limit stop. As this cross bracket is installed so low in the rails, it has a lot of pressure on it when the scissor hits it. Mine is bending really bad. This cross shaft should sit much higher so there is less leverage on it when it contacts. The next disappointment is that the cut off limiter now has damaged my track. I did cut it off exactly as per the instructions and filed it down but on rear suspension compression, the track must smack down on it from above and it gouged the track and chewed off about 25-30% of the contacting drive cog (rubber nub).

Resolution:

Nate was very good at quickly sending out a new coupler kit but he did not seem to want to talk about the wrecked parts or damaged track. I have not installed it yet so i don't know if the new one will make any difference.,

Conclusion:

I guess when you buy aftermarket parts, it is buyer beware. Little aftermarket part companies just can't afford to to pay for damages beyond replacing their own products. Sledders are all guinea pigs for not only the sled manufacturers but also for the entire industry. That is the downside of owning the latest and greatest, by the time the bugs are worked out, you are riding something new.

2016-03-19 10.45.47-2.jpg 2016-04-08 09.53.06.jpg 2016-04-08 09.53.09.jpg 2016-04-08 09.53.13.jpg KISS Coupler.jpg
 
I am yes, for a while until I got my shocks set up right it was down right crazy. Felt like a 144 at times, nothing like my Pro chassis. After getting the rear shocks set right it is much better and manageable now. I was leaning hard towards the KISS setup due to the lower cost and personally not liking full skids.

If I do anything it will be the ARC setup but think I am pretty good now though.
 
I am yes, for a while until I got my shocks set up right it was down right crazy. Felt like a 144 at times, nothing like my Pro chassis. After getting the rear shocks set right it is much better and manageable now. I was leaning hard towards the KISS setup due to the lower cost and personally not liking full skids.

If I do anything it will be the ARC setup but think I am pretty good now though.

Can you share what your rear shock set up is now to control lift?
 
Can you share what your rear shock set up is now to control lift?

Well the rider weight and riding style changes how much you need but I simply just loosened the center shock up to where it is just holding the spring in or maybe just a little more. Then I just had my clicker set to the middle and adjusted my spring tighter and I found the ski pressure needed. From there I adjust my clicker for what is needed day to day but for the must part it stays put.
 
A good rear shock makes all world in difference for controlling front ski lift. The Exit X1 I had the Pro kept the skis down on any pull at 10-12 pounds of boost. You could still pull it up if wanted/needed but very controllable.
 
I never had ski lift/control problems with the Pro Ride chassis like i did with the Axys. I am sure more power and more traction of the Axys does make a difference. It is interesting how the new 174 will get revised positioning of the rear drop bracket. Maybe the 163 should have been moved back slightly too? Believe it or not I have also gone back and forth between stock and 1.5" shorter spindles on the Axys too and the shorter do make the sled handle better. These shorter spindles also are the offset so I run at 38" wide.
 
I have the KISS on my 14 pro turbo and now on my new axys turbo. I found the same problems you are talking of with the sissor just contacting the edges of the blocks and bending the sissor. Now I'm nervous for my new sled, especially about ripping my track. Is there a solution for preventing this?? Will they send me out new ones that are within spec?
 
Any update on this? Was it a product out of spec or was it a product just not very well thought out...

Perhaps you were relying too much on the coupling and not enough on rear track valving/spring rate?
 
Discussed this with Kevin @ K- Mod in depth...
He advised me to stay away from any coupler,( even his) as the unequal arms (rear is shorter) and you end up what you have shown.

The rear is bending due to the front longer arm and it trying to transfer where there is not any travel left- know I am missing something here,and this is the reader digest version, and don't know if this applies to the Arc as- I am very interested in this system also while on boost.
 
Interesting. Like I said, I think relying too much on the coupler (as opposed to coupler + correct spring weight/valving) could be part of the problem, but it also looks like a not-so-good design.

hmmm
 
Kmod

Discussed this with Kevin @ K- Mod in depth...
He advised me to stay away from any coupler,( even his) as the unequal arms (rear is shorter) and you end up what you have shown.

The rear is bending due to the front longer arm and it trying to transfer where there is not any travel left- know I am missing something here,and this is the reader digest version, and don't know if this applies to the Arc as- I am very interested in this system also while on boost.


So was Kevin at Kmod recommending his complete rear skid then?
 
I've got to say Teth-Air you're taking things way better than I'd be. There's nothing worse than a company selling a product that obviously didn't have the expected level of thought/testing behind it and it causing damage to your ride. If I wanted to be a guinea pig I wouldn't expect to have to pay for the product!
 
I've got to say Teth-Air you're taking things way better than I'd be. There's nothing worse than a company selling a product that obviously didn't have the expected level of thought/testing behind it and it causing damage to your ride. If I wanted to be a guinea pig I wouldn't expect to have to pay for the product!

I agree, consumers have been doing their r&d for years... the pro a arm fiasco in 2012, the 36" kit that needed spindles to be ground down, now this...
They have a history, personally not a big fan.
 
Like the title says I have a KISS Coupler on my AXYS. Delivery was pretty fast but it came with no instructions so I had to find them on Zbros Racing website and print off myself.

Install:

Install is pretty easy except the instructions say to install at 2.2 inch measurement and I found using decimals with inches less than convenient if you don't have an appropriate caliper handy.

Secondly I had much reservations about cutting off the limit stop for the scissor arm. I knew if I ever want to return to stock it means a weld job or a new part.

Finally the coupler has bolts in each end and lock washers? This made no sense to me as the beauty of this device is that I can easily control the suspension transfer and change it when riding different terrain. I did not tighten the bolts all the way and used Red Loctite on the threads so I could still turn the aluminum shaft. This worked really well and I could turn it by hand but it never moved on its own.

Effectiveness:

I am very sold on the effectiveness and really enjoyed dialing to max. coupling for steep climbs and down 2 settings for trail riding in and out. If I did not dial it down on rough trail the suspension would fell harsh. This device really helped the AXYS stay in control when climbing through the tight trees.

Problems:

Unfortunately I don't think Zbroz tested this coupler enough before releasing it for the AXYS. The coupler I got has damaged my track and suspension. The scissor bent and cracked on both sides. I now have had to remove it, weld it and reinforce it with 1/2" angle iron from the scissor bolt to the limiter bolt. I talked to Nate at Zbroz Racing and he told me that the part I got was probably out of spec with the 2 nylon contact blocks too far apart. This wide spread of the blocks caused them only to contact the outside edges of the scissor arm, causing it to bend and break. Secondly included in the kit is a stainless steel cross shaft that goes in front of the lower scissor arm bracket as a new limit stop. As this cross bracket is installed so low in the rails, it has a lot of pressure on it when the scissor hits it. Mine is bending really bad. This cross shaft should sit much higher so there is less leverage on it when it contacts. The next disappointment is that the cut off limiter now has damaged my track. I did cut it off exactly as per the instructions and filed it down but on rear suspension compression, the track must smack down on it from above and it gouged the track and chewed off about 25-30% of the contacting drive cog (rubber nub).

Resolution:

Nate was very good at quickly sending out a new coupler kit but he did not seem to want to talk about the wrecked parts or damaged track. I have not installed it yet so i don't know if the new one will make any difference.,

Conclusion:

I guess when you buy aftermarket parts, it is buyer beware. Little aftermarket part companies just can't afford to to pay for damages beyond replacing their own products. Sledders are all guinea pigs for not only the sled manufacturers but also for the entire industry. That is the downside of owning the latest and greatest, by the time the bugs are worked out, you are riding something new.



How did you address these problems with the Coupler system you are selling? Looks very similar in design.


http://www.sourceinnovations.ca/product/source-innovations-ltd-polaris-axys-163-suspension-coupler/
 
Can you not see the blocks that are bolted to the scissor? That moves the crossshaft back far enough for the limit stop to clear so you don't have to cut the stock limiter off. And secondly spreads the forces over the entire scissor and not just the back edge.
 
Any update on this? Was it a product out of spec or was it a product just not very well thought out...

Perhaps you were relying too much on the coupling and not enough on rear track valving/spring rate?

They sent me a new one that was exactly the same. Nate is a good guy,its just that this product was not thought through far enough for my liking. If you statement about the shock is true, that can explain the smashing of the scissor but not the fact that the suspension crushed far enough that the cut off limiter gouged the inside of the track. I went back to see the instructions and I had it exact. More of the limiter would need to be cut off to avoid this. I just decided with my design that I did not want to cut it off at all
 
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