respect and entitlement..

[ruffryder]

I have been thinking about the old days, and the way things used to be, and contrasting that with how we treat each other these days, especially on this forum.

I don't think respect is earned. Respect is given. Children respected their elders not because they earned it, but because they gave it. People respected their fellow man, even though they might be completely strangers. Again, respect wasn't earned, it was given.

Were did this, "you have to EARN my respect" come from? Why must we have people jump through our own hoops before we will treat them decently?

We used to respect our fellow man, and we used to respect ourselves. It seems respect isn't something that is earned, but it can be taken away.

It seems the times, they are a changin..

I find it odd is all.

 

[framus]

"especially on this forum?"

You came looking for were the respect has gone on a snowmobile forum?....in the politics section?....with your disposition? Please tell me your kidding.

 

[MTm7]

I have been thinking about the old days, and the way things used to be, and contrasting that with how we treat each other these days, especially on this forum.

I don't think respect is earned. Respect is given. Children respected their elders not because they earned it, but because they gave it. People respected their fellow man, even though they might be completely strangers. Again, respect wasn't earned, it was given.

Were did this, "you have to EARN my respect" come from? Why must we have people jump through our own hoops before we will treat them decently?

We used to respect our fellow man, and we used to respect ourselves. It seems respect isn't something that is earned, but it can be taken away.

It seems the times, they are a changin..

I find it odd is all.

i do agree somewhat... children most generally will dole out respect according to how they see thier parents treat others. this includes what you do/dont say when not in others presence.

though i find it a little odd that you bring this up... consistently, at lest with your detractors anyways, you are the most condescending/smarmy of them all. just sayin!

 

[DaveB]

I have been thinking about the old days, and the way things used to be, and contrasting that with how we treat each other these days, especially on this forum.

I don't think respect is earned. Respect is given. Children respected their elders not because they earned it, but because they gave it. People respected their fellow man, even though they might be completely strangers. Again, respect wasn't earned, it was given.

Were did this, "you have to EARN my respect" come from? Why must we have people jump through our own hoops before we will treat them decently?

We used to respect our fellow man, and we used to respect ourselves. It seems respect isn't something that is earned, but it can be taken away.

It seems the times, they are a changin..

I find it odd is all.

How far back do "the old days" go for you Ruffy? IE: how old are you? Be honest.

 

[Gainster]

So what do you do when someone lies to gain respect?

November 17, 2009
Stim money 'creates or saves' jobs in congressional districts that don't exist
I don't know what's loonier about this ABC report by Jonathan Karl; the idea that the federal government doesn't know much about itself or that some people who got this stim money are really, really stupid:


Here's a stimulus success story: In Arizona's 15th congressional district, 30 jobs have been saved or created with just $761,420 in federal stimulus spending. At least that's what the Web site set up by the Obama administration to track the $787 billion stimulus says.

There's one problem, though: There is no 15th congressional district in Arizona; the state has only eight districts.

And ABC News has found many more entries for projects like this in places that are incorrectly identified.

Late Monday, officials with the Recovery Board created to track the stimulus spending, said the mistakes in crediting nonexistent congressional districts were caused by human error.

"We report what the recipients submit to us," said Ed Pound, Communications Director for the Board.

Pound told ABC News the board receives declarations from the recipients - state governments, federal agencies and universities - of stimulus money about what program is being funded.

"Some recipients clearly don't know what congressional district they live in, so they appear to be just throwing in any number. We expected all along that recipients would make mistakes on their congressional districts, on jobs numbers, on award amounts, and so on. Human beings make mistakes," Pound said.


I love the spin on this one. Shorter White House; federal and state employees are dumber than the average voter but they should be excused because they're human.

Well, some might argue with that but I won't. Nevertheless, it's beginning to look like the White House made a monumental error in releasing this information. So much of it has been shown to be bogus, wrong, or in this case, downright ignorant that you begin to wonder if there's any information in those reports that are correct.

And there are many Democrats who want another stimulus bill? I guess it will give them that many more chances to fudge the numbers and cook the books.

 

[ruffryder]

How far back do "the old days" go for you Ruffy? IE: how old are you? Be honest.

28 (and 11/12s ha ha), but I look at how my parents treat EVERYONE, and how my grandparents treat(ed) EVERYONE, even people they don't know. They represent the "OLD DAYS" IMO. They always treated everyone with respect. I don't see that as much here.

 

[ruffryder]

you are the most condescending/smarmy of them all. just sayin!

really? I thought at the most I sometimes give as good as I get. Maybe you are right though.. I am trying, sometimes I feel like I get dragged down back into the much though... Maybe it is just me.

 

[ruffryder]

"especially on this forum?"

You came looking for were the respect has gone on a snowmobile forum?....in the politics section?....with your disposition? Please tell me your kidding.

politics section and all the other sections. Why do we feel we can treat each other like crap because we are on a forum.

 

[duffman]

Why shouldn't respect be earned? Maybe in your grandparent's day, there were more people worthy of respect. Should we respect a corrupt politician, just because they won a popularity contest and got elected? In treating everyone with respect you are creating a social incentive that rewards people for bad behavior, as they are receiving the same treatment as someone who earns the right to be respected.

 

[ruffryder]

Why shouldn't respect be earned? Maybe in your grandparent's day, there were more people worthy of respect. Should we respect a corrupt politician, just because they won a popularity contest and got elected? In treating everyone with respect you are creating a social incentive that rewards people for bad behavior, as they are receiving the same treatment as someone who earns the right to be respected.

As I said, you can loose respect. In your example, I would think that people would respect the politician UNTIL it was found out that he was corrupt. Then he would LOOSE his respect. You might be right about being more people worthy of respect. I would imagine, and it works for me, that I return the respect that is given to me. I try to anyways.

My question is, if respect is earned, that means the default or initial level of respect for someone is nothing. They have to PROVE they are worthy.. What makes us so great that we can demand this to people we know little about?

 

[DaveB]

28 (and 11/12s ha ha), but I look at how my parents treat EVERYONE, and how my grandparents treat(ed) EVERYONE, even people they don't know. They represent the "OLD DAYS" IMO. They always treated everyone with respect. I don't see that as much here.

Well, you're older than your tone on here often indicates, but not an old fart by any means...LOL. (I got 15 yrs on you BTW...just an FYI to "qualify" my position)
To your question: I suspect the lack of respect is because of the lack of social interaction thanks to the Internet. With the internet becoming publicly popular in the 90's, kids learning new social skills no longer worried about getting punched in the mouth for behaving in a disrespectful manner. That's my theory. When I was a kid, we all went outside to play....all day, every day. If you acted like a jacka$$, you had no freinds. Simple. We ate dirt, threw rocks at each other, skinned our knees, got goose-eggs, and practiced swear-words. In the 90's kids got video games and computers. So they sat inside all day shooting virtual gangstas and "talking" on the internet...no learning, no consequences. All their social skills came from liberal-minded teachers who let them know about their "rights".

Edit: as far as "earning respect"....lets look at my favorite one: Obama. Here is a guy who has never had a real job. Never even been a real politician. Now because he knows how to manipulate the system, he's in a position of being the most powerful man on earth. Very scary. He hasn't earned it.

 

[ruffryder]

Edit: as far as "earning respect"....lets look at my favorite one: Obama. Here is a guy who has never had a real job. Never even been a real politician. Now because he knows how to manipulate the system, he's in a position of being the most powerful man on earth. Very scary. He hasn't earned it.

Why is it not, "He had your respect then the more you found out about him the more respect he lost"?

 

[Idcatman3]

Well, you're older than your tone on here often indicates, but not an old fart by any means...LOL. (I got 15 yrs on you BTW...just an FYI to "qualify" my position)
To your question: I suspect the lack of respect is because of the lack of social interaction thanks to the Internet. With the internet becoming publicly popular in the 90's, kids learning new social skills no longer worried about getting punched in the mouth for behaving in a disrespectful manner. That's my theory. When I was a kid, we all went outside to play....all day, every day. If you acted like a jacka$$, you had no freinds. Simple. We ate dirt, threw rocks at each other, skinned our knees, got goose-eggs, and practiced swear-words. In the 90's kids got video games and computers. So they sat inside all day shooting virtual gangstas and "talking" on the internet...no learning, no consequences. All their social skills came from liberal-minded teachers who let them know about their "rights".

Edit: as far as "earning respect"....lets look at my favorite one: Obama. Here is a guy who has never had a real job. Never even been a real politician. Now because he knows how to manipulate the system, he's in a position of being the most powerful man on earth. Very scary. He hasn't earned it.

I'm 25, and grew up with the internet, and socializing online. I still don't treat people I've never met like jacka$$es unless they do something to lose my respect. If growing up with no social skills is your rationale for people not treating anyone with respect, what is the older generations excuse? Maybe a lot of people on here are younger than I think. Seems to me it's not just the younger guys (or girls) that are this way.

I tend to take pretty much everything someone says at face value unless I have the ability to prove otherwise. When they do/say something that makes me question that, they lose respect.

Kinda like the innocent until proven guilty thing.

 

[duffman]

Ruffy, this is a symantics debate. I have no problem with treating people kindly, and more importantly with compassion. However, repect is a very important thing, by definition it is something to be earned. I treat people kindly, but do not hand out my respect untill they have earned it. Respect should not be the default condition.

 

[ruffryder]

However, repect is a very important thing, by definition it is something to be earned.

What is your definition of respect?

Why do you treat people kindly?

Kinda like the innocent until proven guilty thing.

yah, that is what I am saying..

Interesting thoughts on respect..

 

[DaveB]

Why is it not, "He had your respect then the more you found out about him the more respect he lost"?

We're kind of talking about two different types of respect. On a social level...sure, I'll treat everyone with respect. On a professional level, sorry...professional students and people who can't even change a tire don't get any from me. Obama is in that club.

 

[Wade]

Why Socialized Health Care? Just one of reason many bad reasons. Because, people on welfare, where upset that people looked down on them, at the hospital, and emergency room, and prescription counters. They wanted respect when they walked in the door. To be able to make an appointment, like anyone else, and be indistinguishable from "earners".

It's like the food stamps people. They one time tried to demand cash, because they hated the disrespect they received, when they whipped out a stack of food stamps, for the ham they where buying. I think it's one of the reasons the food stamp credit card didn't meet much resistance from most.

Why does every kid get a ribbon at the school competition? Because, they don't want to earn it, they just want the respect. (I assume you've seen the pictures where every kid won something, no matter what?) This is being ingrained into kids, you don't have to earn it, but should expect it.

As for my Grandfather, if you pulled up on his doorstep, he treated you with respect. But, if you came demanding anything you were not owed, or showed disrespect to him, you'd be facing a shotgun. There where consequences. (respect to DaveB's argument)

Now a days, people call you with robo-callers. Call you pretending to be something they aren't. Send you letters disguised as government documents, just to trick you into buying something from them. Makes respect for strangers harder.

Sorry dude, but with the anonymity of the internet, no one really knows anyone else, or what your "selling". The whole point of anonymity, is to be something you are not. So, I generally rein in the respect, until I get to know someone.

Let's take you for example Ruffy. Your not as counter politically, as you make out. But, you enjoy taking the devil's advocate. You've changed a lot; since you first came on here. And one day, I expect you'll think more like us, than the person you used to be. It's called growing up. You used to do a lot more meaningful research, but now, you tend to take one statement, in an entire thesis, and make some argument against it. You have more respect than most, but your tending to project less respect for others "total" opinion. Your probably busier these days.

There's a lot more people on here than there used to be, and a lot more people just moving through. Personally, I don't expect respect from anyone. But, I always try to take the time to argue, not name call. But, I get mad sometimes too.

 

[Wade]

We're kind of talking about two different types of respect. On a social level...sure, I'll treat everyone with respect. On a professional level, sorry...professional students and people who can't even change a tire don't get any from me. Obama is in that club.

Yep, your right. There's two types of respect. The "respect you show strangers" (uninformed respect). And, the "respect for people you know" (informed respect). No matter who you meet, you start with the first, and progress to the second.

Maybe, what you progress too is no-respect. But, you never have uninformed respect; for someone you know. You have the informed type of respect.

 

[duffman]

Wade, you just confirmed my point with more eloquence than I can. The only thing I can add is: you have earned my respect.

 

[Wolfrun]

This has been a very good discussion guys, kudos to all of you and you are all right. I was brought up in a farming area where probably 80 percent of all people were self employed and strongly self sufficient. Yes everyone had basic respect for everyone else. It was a way of life and most had a good sense of humor which was a big part of the mutual respect. After that, all respect was earned. respect isn't a static thing, it grows and can recede in others perspectives day by day just by daily living and how you behave.
I went to work on the road in 1951 when I was twelve. I picked rocks the first day. The second day the loader man got drunk and never came back so they put me on the loader loading trucks. I quickly learned to do it so I stayed. I received the basic respect all right but no more than that. 25 Years later I was bossing interstate highway jobs but I still felt like a **** assed kid inside and was still treated that way by some of the old timers even when I made General Superintendent. Well now I am an old timer and I still have to earn the respect I receive every day. Ruffy, you have to work that out in your own head . Respect just doesn't come automatically, you have to work for it constantly.