Rescuers to recover bodies of snowmobilers killed in avalanche near Golden, BC
- Thread starter CleElum Sledhead
- Start date
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snoboy
Active member
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snowmobiler
Well-known member
im thinking its pretty low to bash fellow sledders.
Golden avalanche
I just talked with the family of one of the victims and my friend and if they have not been through enough now we have to go to Golden and dig out the sleds and bring them home. Hoping to get a crew together next week sometime, if anyone would like to help it would be much appreciated.
I just talked with the family of one of the victims and my friend and if they have not been through enough now we have to go to Golden and dig out the sleds and bring them home. Hoping to get a crew together next week sometime, if anyone would like to help it would be much appreciated.
PM me. I'm sure I can round up some help.
The "fellow sledders" did all that could be done, to themselves.
The only thing that they can do now is teach others not to make the same poor decisions.
I love how people always think we should all send prayers, blessings & fluffy white kisses instead of actually trying to LEARN something. F-ing asinine & just another reason for this kind of thing to keep happening.
Sorry to offend your gentle feelings. So sick of these stupid discussions.
Had I not made it out of mine earlier this year, I'd SURE AS HELL HOPE someone else would have learned from it...(and pointed out the stupid things I did that got me into that situation!!)
because hopes, prayers, wishes, vibes, and not offending anyone SURE WOULDN'T have brought me BACK or accomplished SH**.
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snowmobiler
Well-known member
you wouldnt think friends and family reading this will like the name calling.would you 3?
His post is a tad bit abrasive, but if it gets the message across to even one person and saves so much as one life then its worth it. Avalanches are one part of snowmobiling that we simply just cannot sugar coat and tap dance around. It's hard cold reality, and far too often overlooked and ignored. Even if you are doing everything by the book there is still a small risk involved, and it makes me sad to see how many people are willing to push their luck THAT far.
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snowmobiler
Well-known member
stupid rednecks is a tad bit?.whatever.go ahead and be disrespectfull and continue the name calling then.
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snoboy
Active member
Read the entire thread. The stupid redneck thing is simply a repeat of what Dr. Louis Francescutti said in the Global Calgary Press. Be pissed at him.
context, snomobiler. It wasn't a direct comment about them.
Either way... the result is the same & the poor decisions are the same.
The decisions WERE stupid, not being educated enough to not make those mistakes is the kind of things people would call redneck. It is what it is.
Nobody WANTS to be an armchair quarterback about this kind of thing, but the moves you need to make to "win" aren't difficult.
Either way... the result is the same & the poor decisions are the same.
The decisions WERE stupid, not being educated enough to not make those mistakes is the kind of things people would call redneck. It is what it is.
Nobody WANTS to be an armchair quarterback about this kind of thing, but the moves you need to make to "win" aren't difficult.
This was posted on Snow & Mud forum by the survivors mother.
Yes this was a man made event, but sometimes the people that jump all over these terrible events and mouth off about the events should remember that there are living grieving family members out there that read the *** clown insensitive comments by some.
Start another thread about what can and will go wrong, leave the grieving families out of your discussions if you have any dignity. (My comments)
"A heartfelt thank you to all those involved in the rescue efforts. You are all truly heros. Our son is doing alright physically but the emotional wounds of this tragedy will take time to heal. He is forever greatful to those who risked their lives and took the time to know how to effectively and efficiently use their rescue equipment. The efforts here were 2nd to none. Words simply cannot express out gratitude. We would love to contact you all once we can gather our thoughts.
We would also like to express our appreciation for all the kind words, support and condolences extended to our family and friends. Having been a part of the snowmobiling community for many years, I do understand the bond we all share."
Sincerley
A very thankful Mom and Son
P.S. Sometimes, despite the best of efforts, not all details published are 100% accurate and mere photos can be deceiving. Please trust that these men knew their sport and the "rules" of the back-country well. I truly hope that all those reading and posting here will think carefully and with compassion when posting. We will continue to read the postings here as there is comfort in knowing our grief is shared and the memories of our loved ones are honoured. Thank you
Yes this was a man made event, but sometimes the people that jump all over these terrible events and mouth off about the events should remember that there are living grieving family members out there that read the *** clown insensitive comments by some.
Start another thread about what can and will go wrong, leave the grieving families out of your discussions if you have any dignity. (My comments)
"A heartfelt thank you to all those involved in the rescue efforts. You are all truly heros. Our son is doing alright physically but the emotional wounds of this tragedy will take time to heal. He is forever greatful to those who risked their lives and took the time to know how to effectively and efficiently use their rescue equipment. The efforts here were 2nd to none. Words simply cannot express out gratitude. We would love to contact you all once we can gather our thoughts.
We would also like to express our appreciation for all the kind words, support and condolences extended to our family and friends. Having been a part of the snowmobiling community for many years, I do understand the bond we all share."
Sincerley
A very thankful Mom and Son
P.S. Sometimes, despite the best of efforts, not all details published are 100% accurate and mere photos can be deceiving. Please trust that these men knew their sport and the "rules" of the back-country well. I truly hope that all those reading and posting here will think carefully and with compassion when posting. We will continue to read the postings here as there is comfort in knowing our grief is shared and the memories of our loved ones are honoured. Thank you
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4 people caught in one slide. 3 people DEAD.
As I mentioned above, nothing complex here.
THAT is NOT "knowing their sport well", I don't give a CRAP how you want to spin this, it's not.
I feel for the survivors, but the ONLY thing these people's loss can accomplish now is for others to learn from it.
Considering that I spend an outrageous amount of time in heavy avy terrain & I ride an outrageous amount each year, I accept the fact that this may someday be me in one of these reports. I came very close this year, and HOPE it never happens (and do EVERYTHING I CAN to make sure if it ever did, it's just me), but if it ever does... I don't want people worrying about my mom's feelings, I want them to LEARN & have it NOT happen to them.
Please don't take my harshness as being lacking in empathy, I've been on the surviving end of close deaths, and I know what it's like, but priority number one should be saving lives.
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Flange
Well-known member
I have to agree with backcountryislife. I'm so tired of explaining this stuff to people that ask me why I love doing something that is perceived to be so dangerous. Its incidents like this that keep giving our sport a bad name. We as a group can not even agree on how to deal with these. These are not accidents. We are not left wondering "Gee, how did that happen? Thats not the result I would have expected to see?" These are entirely preventable deaths. The media gets told that the victims were all "experienced riders", "were equipped with all the latest safety gear", blah blah blah. The rest of the world reads these reports and the only conclusion they can draw is that it must be so dangerous in the backcountry that even the most experienced riders are getting killed. The only logical decision they can then come to is that we must simply close it all down. The sledding community needs to start correcting these reports and telling the real story and stop defending fellow riders that are damaging our sport.
Case in point, we are being told that this latest group of 4 knew the "rules". So either they chose to break no less than 3 of them, or the fact is they actually didn't know the rules. I have no way of knowing which one it is, but make no mistake, its one or the other. Lets stop sugar coating it. It has nothing to do with showing compassion for friends and families. Of course we all have that. This is about lack of training, poor decision making, people thinking they know what they are doing when in reality they do not, and in some cases just pure stupidity.
Case in point, we are being told that this latest group of 4 knew the "rules". So either they chose to break no less than 3 of them, or the fact is they actually didn't know the rules. I have no way of knowing which one it is, but make no mistake, its one or the other. Lets stop sugar coating it. It has nothing to do with showing compassion for friends and families. Of course we all have that. This is about lack of training, poor decision making, people thinking they know what they are doing when in reality they do not, and in some cases just pure stupidity.
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there's already 2 threads on this, and this is the one we're having a discussion in.
I had nothing to say until scardeycat posted this
i was waiting for the bull**** comments to come from the so called experts and it didnt take long
global calgary news interviewed dr louis francescutti who called snowmobilers rednecks and said we shouldnt be allowed to do what we do
I'm not going to let a post in denial of what happened just sit without rebuttal.
And then you come on talking about "bashing" other sledders...
What purpose is that serving? Us PREACHERS are trying to figure out how to get this crap to STOP.
YOU go start another thread & post up a bunch of happy thoughts, prayers, wishes, vibes, and blow them some butterfly kisses while you're at it. That'll help a TON. I promise I won't come over there & hassle you. (can't speak for flange though... that guy is just a jerk from what I hear
)
I had nothing to say until scardeycat posted this
i was waiting for the bull**** comments to come from the so called experts and it didnt take long
global calgary news interviewed dr louis francescutti who called snowmobilers rednecks and said we shouldnt be allowed to do what we do
I'm not going to let a post in denial of what happened just sit without rebuttal.
And then you come on talking about "bashing" other sledders...
What purpose is that serving? Us PREACHERS are trying to figure out how to get this crap to STOP.
YOU go start another thread & post up a bunch of happy thoughts, prayers, wishes, vibes, and blow them some butterfly kisses while you're at it. That'll help a TON. I promise I won't come over there & hassle you. (can't speak for flange though... that guy is just a jerk from what I hear
)Instead of finger pointing, lets look at the real issue. EDUCATION. In order to safely deal with terrain such as the face in question on this thread, much more then an avy 1 is required. Any avalanche professional will agree with that. Todays machines are letting riders access and play with terrain and snow conditions that the mountaineering or even skiing world wouldnt touch.
Before you get all pissed off and think that mountaineers and skiers are tree hugging hippies, consider this: These sports have been around for HUNDREDS of years, and the experience gained by the pioneers of these sports has been passed down thru generations. There are no previous generations of sledders who had 180 hp 450 lb machines who can pass on what they learned when their friends died.
My background is in big mountain skiing and climbing, and I got into sledding 10 years ago as an access tool. Now I enjoy sledding as much as skiing, and split my time equally. I have taken an AST2 in Canada (roughly equivalent to an avy 3 in the US) and have guided ski film crews in BC and Alaska. Is that enough experience and education? NO, I am learning every day still, and I still make mistakes, but I can say unequivocally that I have learned a lot more about avy/mountain safety from the people I have been exposed to on skiing side then the sledding side. Dont stop at an avy 1, take more advanced courses too...
Before you get all pissed off and think that mountaineers and skiers are tree hugging hippies, consider this: These sports have been around for HUNDREDS of years, and the experience gained by the pioneers of these sports has been passed down thru generations. There are no previous generations of sledders who had 180 hp 450 lb machines who can pass on what they learned when their friends died.
My background is in big mountain skiing and climbing, and I got into sledding 10 years ago as an access tool. Now I enjoy sledding as much as skiing, and split my time equally. I have taken an AST2 in Canada (roughly equivalent to an avy 3 in the US) and have guided ski film crews in BC and Alaska. Is that enough experience and education? NO, I am learning every day still, and I still make mistakes, but I can say unequivocally that I have learned a lot more about avy/mountain safety from the people I have been exposed to on skiing side then the sledding side. Dont stop at an avy 1, take more advanced courses too...
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Flange
Well-known member
Seriously? You think it would take more than an AST 1 course to learn to avoid the mistakes that were made here (and the mistakes that are made 90% of the time IMO)? I suggest you get yourself a new AST 1 instructor then.
No, that is not my point. More training is needed to evaluate a slope like that to determine when it is truely (or as close to it as is possible) safe to ride. An AST 1 is going to teach you the basics for sure, and I would hope it would keep someone out of this situation, but with the knowledge gained there you are really only prepared to evaluate the most basic of situations with a "big picture" view. More advanced training will allow you to learn to dig proper pits, evaluate layers in the snowpack understand the effect of the weather on the snowpack and make VERY informed descisions before you hang it out there.
The knowledge gained in an AST 2 is about 10x that gained in an AST 1. Guys who have taken only a level 1 and think they are all good are very dangerous in my book.
How about you Flange, have you taken an avy 1? 2?
I think there's a bit of a gulf from what JTK is saying & what you mean flange.
THESE particular mistakes... an intro to avy 2 hr class would have prevented (let's be honest, even just a talk from a buddy before riding) but what JTK is saying is to travel safely in the kind of terrain we can regularly access is a whole new horizon really, and I agree 100%.
We ride some unreal terrain now & the education doesn't generally keep pace with the advancements in our capabilities.
THESE particular mistakes... an intro to avy 2 hr class would have prevented (let's be honest, even just a talk from a buddy before riding) but what JTK is saying is to travel safely in the kind of terrain we can regularly access is a whole new horizon really, and I agree 100%.
We ride some unreal terrain now & the education doesn't generally keep pace with the advancements in our capabilities.
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Flange
Well-known member
Wow, I have to say I strongly disagree with that statement.
I took AST 1 classroom and field sessions in 2007 from Zacs Tracs. I then assisted Zacs Tracs during one of their AST 1 field sessions in 2009. A few months ago I took Zacs Tracs new AST 1.5 course. Based on what I've learned from Lori during these courses, I feel I ride extremely safe. I don't need AST 2 to help avoid the mistakes others are making, and frankyly I don't think anyone needs AST 2 to do the same. I don't dig pits. I let the folks that contribute to www.avalanche.ca dig the pits and analyze the snowpack and then I follow their updates daily. From that, I decide where and how I'm going to ride. Regardless of any of this, I don't hit slopes like the one in this thread and I don't sit at the bottom like a dummy, so chances of me getting caught in something like this are very slim.
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