question for those who clutched their D-8's

[thefullmonte]

the tps is spot on, and mapping is the latest dynotech for slp singlepipe.. what else to look at?? I thought it should pull VERY VERY hard att 8400 rpm..but it seems to be powerless that high.. any difference because of low elevation? according to dynotechs dynosheet they seem to deliver most power at 8100?

Consider that Jim uses an external tach for RPM readings. The factory tach may not be calibrated correctly so the two readings may not correlate. It is possible that 8450 on the gauge may be only 8100 in real life. They may even do this to keep guys like us from over revving the motors.
In another post Kraven mentioned that you may have some kind of dyno lag where the readings cannot keep up. I know nothing of this, but it would explain some differences from dyno to real world running.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

Consider that Jim uses an external tach for RPM readings. The factory tach may not be calibrated correctly so the two readings may not correlate. It is possible that 8450 on the gauge may be only 8100 in real life. They may even do this to keep guys like us from over revving the motors.
In another post Kraven mentioned that you may have some kind of dyno lag where the readings cannot keep up. I know nothing of this, but it would explain some differences from dyno to real world running.

naw...monte..pretty hard to get a hot pipe on a dyno and keep it hot like you would on a deep steep climb.....hot pipe = power at a higher rpm..try it..the difference between 7900 and 8300 is like a 600 to a 800.....by the way..thanks for the thumbs up yesterday...

 

[thefullmonte]

naw...monte..pretty hard to get a hot pipe on a dyno and keep it hot like you would on a deep steep climb.....hot pipe = power at a higher rpm..try it..the difference between 7900 and 8300 is like a 600 to a 800.....by the way..thanks for the thumbs up yesterday...

I'll give you another one for all the help you give on here.
You just made a very good point about the pipe temp. I totally agree that you need to see the higher RPM's on the tach. I just know in years past the tachs weren't calibrated very well from the factory. It was just a thought that popped in my head.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

I'll give you another one for all the help you give on here.
You just made a very good point about the pipe temp. I totally agree that you need to see the higher RPM's on the tach. I just know in years past the tachs weren't calibrated very well from the factory. It was just a thought that popped in my head.

When you watch vids of sleds..listen to the sound..a sled that is cranking.....sounds like it..my guess is the tachs are pretty close...I have a good fluke meter..(reads rpms off the ignition), hooked to mine it is within a few rpm at 4000 rpm(havent ran it any higher with it hooked up though)...

 

[thewayout84]

ok, then I could try to put in the std 10-68 weights and se how that works.. shouldn't i clutch where it has most torque? but i can't figure out why it's pulling harder on 3/4 tps.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

ok, then I could try to put in the std 10-68 weights and se how that works.. shouldn't i clutch where it has most torque? but i can't figure out why it's pulling harder on 3/4 tps.

how many miles on the sled? how old are the primary and secondary springs?and are you sure both clutches are in good condition(I ask because mine felt flatter the last ride..sure enough...had a roller in the primary start coming apart), what belt do you run and how old is it?are you getting a lot of black belt dust? how hot does the clutches and belt get after a good climb? and which clutch is the hotest? are the powervalves free and clean? what spring is in the valves and what altitude do you ride? have you checked compression? and have you looked to see if there is any piston scuffing or excessive blowby?(pull the plugs and powervalves and you can get a decent look at the pistons)...

 

[chunkysoup]

Had my buddys stock 09 800 dragon 121" in the U.P. last weekend and i rode it for a little while. I was looking forward to riding it cuz i was considering getting an assault and wanted to see how well this engine did. I was not impressed! It had no pull in the midrange whatsoever! Brought it back home and installed a 66-44.42 helix with a 140-240 (red/black) secondary spring. also installed 23-42 gearing and removed the scissor stops. Now it pulls like a cat on a screen door and can hardly keep it from flipping over! I would recommend this setup to anyone riding flatland or boondocking! After riding this setup i would not be afraid to buy a new 800 for myself!

 

[thewayout84]

how many miles on the sled? how old are the primary and secondary springs?and are you sure both clutches are in good condition(I ask because mine felt flatter the last ride..sure enough...had a roller in the primary start coming apart), what belt do you run and how old is it?are you getting a lot of black belt dust? how hot does the clutches and belt get after a good climb? and which clutch is the hotest? are the powervalves free and clean? what spring is in the valves and what altitude do you ride? have you checked compression? and have you looked to see if there is any piston scuffing or excessive blowby?(pull the plugs and powervalves and you can get a decent look at the pistons)...

about 1500km..and the primary spring is new, the clutches is in very good shape, clean them after every ride. the belt is 3211115 and it is new. the secondary is slightly hotter than the primary but you can get a hand on both. exaust valve is clean, riding att sealevel. I haven't checked compression, but it has no scuffing at all, have ridden it about 300km after the big update. i have noticed one thing, the new primary spring team 165-344 is touching the spider and spring cover, it has worn some deep marks. why??

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

about 1500km..and the primary spring is new, the clutches is in very good shape, clean them after every ride. the belt is 3211115 and it is new. the secondary is slightly hotter than the primary but you can get a hand on both. exaust valve is clean, riding att sealevel. I haven't checked compression, but it has no scuffing at all, have ridden it about 300km after the big update. i have noticed one thing, the new primary spring team 165-344 is touching the spider and spring cover, it has worn some deep marks. why??

hmmm shouldnt be doing that and that may be at least part of your problem(it could be making the spring go stiff since it is binding in the pockets), you might take a die grinder and carefully open your spring pockets up and see if that doesnt fix it for you....I would imagine if you run it long enough like that it is gonna break the spring....

 

[green_denali]

clutching

Heres how my clutching set up went,

2010 D8 with stock pipe, first mod I did was get the Carls 62/42/.40-60/40/.40 helix and install on the 62/42/.40 setting, I noticed trenching was greatly reduced and I didnt feel the clutch weights slam open anymore when taping the throttle to the handle bars from a stand still.

My next mod was to get my rpms up, I was only getting 8050 max rpms,
and I wanted to make my sled more snappy. So I went with the team green primary spring (150-340), the stock black is (140-330). The later engagement definitetly made it want to hop on top of the snow and the higher finish rate got my rpms up to 8250 no problem. Both of these mods
were done during march/april of 2010.

My next mod was to get the SLP 68 gram mtx weights. My belt to sheave
clearance was already within the .010-.020 inch range. My mtx weights were not all equal in weight, the lightest one was 67.7 so the other two were grinded down slightly so that they were all the same. I then put 2 grams in the tip and 1 gram in the belly as a starting point, as recommended by AKSNOWRIDER. I also put 3 delrins in the secondary at this time also, 1 on each side of the spring and one under the spring cup, and then I had the clutches balanced. My first ride with this, I noticed the weight profile of the mtx's is alot better than stock, they open up SO much sooner and the delrins helped with the backshift alot, and the fact that its balanced, made everything feel silky smooth, and my rpms went up to 8350.

 

[green_denali]

more clutching

Heres how my clutching set up went,

2010 D8 with stock pipe, first mod I did was get the Carls 62/42/.40-60/40/.40 helix and install on the 62/42/.40 setting, I noticed trenching was greatly reduced and I didnt feel the clutch weights slam open anymore when taping the throttle to the handle bars from a stand still.

My next mod was to get my rpms up, I was only getting 8050 max rpms,
and I wanted to make my sled more snappy. So I went with the team green primary spring (150-340), the stock black is (140-330). The later engagement definitetly made it want to hop on top of the snow and the higher finish rate got my rpms up to 8250 no problem. Both of these mods
were done during march/april of 2010.

My next mod was to get the SLP 68 gram mtx weights. My belt to sheave
clearance was already within the .010-.020 inch range. My mtx weights were not all equal in weight, the lightest one was 67.7 so the other two were grinded down slightly so that they were all the same. I then put 2 grams in the tip and 1 gram in the belly as a starting point, as recommended by AKSNOWRIDER. I also put 3 delrins in the secondary at this time also, 1 on each side of the spring and one under the spring cup, and then I had the clutches balanced. My first ride with this, I noticed the weight profile of the mtx's is alot better than stock, they open up SO much sooner and the delrins helped with the backshift alot, and the fact that its balanced, made everything feel silky smooth, and my rpms went up to 8350.

Due to the fact that the mtx weights open up so much sooner than stock weights, it felt like I had lost some of the snappiness in my sled. So my next mod was to get the green/pink slp primary spring (160-340) to get the snappy back into it, since it has a higher engagement rate than the team green (150-340). This helped get the snappy back into it, and I also got another 100 rpms just by using this spring. Im thinking the rpm gain is because team measures there springs at 1.19 and SLP measures them at 1.25. Anyway, as of my last ride, we were in 2 ft deep snow, and the snow was more on the wet side, I was pulling 8450 rpms, but would fluctuate between 8150-8200 rpms when climbing up hill, and I had hit 52 mph track speeds according to the computer memory. On my last ride my track got torn so I put on the power claw (90 duro). Ill do one ride with this and see where my rpms and track speed are, then talk to AKSNOWRIDER about changing my primary weights so that theres 2 grams in the belly and 1 gram in the tip. By the way, I ride between 0-3000 feet, and I will update this after the next couple of rides.


I hope this helps anyone wanting to clutch there sled. Thankyou AKSNOWRIDER for your input and help and very useful clutching threads like these to get me and all the other peeps knowed up on clutching.

There is one thing I would like to stress when doing clutching mods.

ALWAYS DO ONE MOD AT A TIME
ALWAYS DO ONE MOD AT A TIME
ALWAYS DO ONE MOD AT A TIME
ALWAYS DO ONE MOD AT A TIME
ALWAYS DO ONE MOD AT A TIME

 

[machinest660]

my 09 assault set up

slp single
Jaws can
Slp intake
pcv with slp map
19-41 gearing
68g mtx 2g tip,1g belly
slp blue pink primary
carles 62-42 helix with 3 delrins in secondary with stock spring
riding around 2000' with 8" light snow on hard base

when hitting the gas RPM's would spike to 8300-8350 then fall back off to 8150-8200 the rest of the pull, this was on flat land. If i were to run my helix on the 60-40 setting would this keep the rpm more constant? how thick of a washer do i need between the snap ring and roller cup to do this? Going to be riding at 7000'-9000' next week and was going to try 68g mtx no rivits and the helix on the 60-40 setting, think it should pull rpms with that set up? I also have a set of 65g mtx i gonna take along just in case i cant pull the 68's. I also getting the 2.5 camo this week so i hopping that will spin alot easier than the stock comp track and free up some more rpms.Thanks for any info.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

my 09 assault set up

slp single
Jaws can
Slp intake
pcv with slp map
19-41 gearing
68g mtx 2g tip,1g belly
slp blue pink primary
carles 62-42 helix with 3 delrins in secondary with stock spring
riding around 2000' with 8" light snow on hard base

when hitting the gas RPM's would spike to 8300-8350 then fall back off to 8150-8200 the rest of the pull, this was on flat land. If i were to run my helix on the 60-40 setting would this keep the rpm more constant? how thick of a washer do i need between the snap ring and roller cup to do this? Going to be riding at 7000'-9000' next week and was going to try 68g mtx no rivits and the helix on the 60-40 setting, think it should pull rpms with that set up? I also have a set of 65g mtx i gonna take along just in case i cant pull the 68's. I also getting the 2.5 camo this week so i hopping that will spin alot easier than the stock comp track and free up some more rpms.Thanks for any info.

for low land swap your rivits, put the heavier in the belly and lighter in the tip...for 9000 ft, not sure the 40 finish is even low enough, might need lighter weights and a 38 finish..havent ridden that high so i am unsure on that one...

 

[machinest660]

Thanks AK i will try the rivit swap later this week. I will post results. So how come for flat land you want more weight in the belly? Or is it usually like that for mountain riding to? thanks again for the info

 

[outlawfish]

just putting an slp single assy onto my kids 2010 800 155. Does everyone recommend doing just as SLP recommends for 3-6 thousand feet in terms of primary weights and spring, leaving secondary stock or do you guys have any other recommendations outside of SLP's that comes with the pipe.

 

[assaultcbco]

I have a stock 09 Assault that only pulls a maximum of 7400 on climbs. I did put a 155 track on it but thats all i have done. I run over 10,000' most of the time. What should i do so i can pull good rpms?

 

[diamonddave]

just putting an slp single assy onto my kids 2010 800 155. Does everyone recommend doing just as SLP recommends for 3-6 thousand feet in terms of primary weights and spring, leaving secondary stock or do you guys have any other recommendations outside of SLP's that comes with the pipe.

I ride primarily 3-6 thousand with the SLP pipe and all the garbage...I would definately recommend the Carls Cycle Helix.

 

[machinest660]

I ride primarily 3-6 thousand with the SLP pipe and all the garbage...I would definately recommend the Carls Cycle Helix.

I agree with you on the helix for sure, I think that made the most difference overall on my sled.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

Thanks AK i will try the rivit swap later this week. I will post results. So how come for flat land you want more weight in the belly? Or is it usually like that for mountain riding to? thanks again for the info

even up ashigh as I have ridden (8000 ft.) I have always founf the dragon likes alot more belly weight then tip weight......

just putting an slp single assy onto my kids 2010 800 155. Does everyone recommend doing just as SLP recommends for 3-6 thousand feet in terms of primary weights and spring, leaving secondary stock or do you guys have any other recommendations outside of SLP's that comes with the pipe.

please read the whole thread, lots of guys talk about their setups for different altitudes...loading up the midrange really helps these sleds, while keeping the revs up on top...

I have a stock 09 Assault that only pulls a maximum of 7400 on climbs. I did put a 155 track on it but thats all i have done. I run over 10,000' most of the time. What should i do so i can pull good rpms?

up that high..gear it way down..maybe as low as 19/45 ..then set the clutching up to pull at least 8300 on a good climb...60/40/.36 or even 58/38/.36 helix, and then the rest of the setups shown as far as springs/weights /delrin washers...

I ride primarily 3-6 thousand with the SLP pipe and all the garbage...I would definately recommend the Carls Cycle Helix.

you have to get it out of the garage before you need to play with the clutching dave...bwahahaha...get to work would ya....

 

[thefullmonte]

Did a little clutching this weekend that suits my riding style perfectly. Most of you will think I'm nuts, but I'm posing it anyway.

My focus was on getting as much power through the primary as I could. That meant I needed positive engagement at low RPM. We crawl through the trees at times and I like to be able to walk next to my sled too.

I tested this at sea level this weekend so I will just have to make a weight change for altitude. Here is what I did.

120/340 SLP black/ pink spring. Or, team bright yellow. Oh goodness, look at how low that initial rate is. Bet most of you haven't seen that in awhile.
Heavy Hitter clutch weights. 55.7g base wt.
4.7g in hole one. Pivot. Had to shop at Fastenal for that one.
4.0g in hole two. Middle
2.3g in hole three. Tip
66.7g total wt.

4-6000feet I will do 3.0 in hole 2mid and 1.3 in hole 3tip. 64.7g total wt.

So does that sound completely backwards from what most of you are doing? It gets better.

I had gotten a different helix because I didn't care for the steep initial angle setup at all. I'm the odd man out on that one, but I always felt I was sacrificing low gear. So, I had picked up a 58/38-.36 helix last year. Turns out that this is the helix that Team industries recommends for 6000ft and up. Hmm Started thinking maybe I was onto something. Run that with the 140/240 red/blk spring that was so famous with the older 800's.

Well, I could walk next to the sled at 3800rpm. Engagement with me on it was 4200. And it pulled just fine from down low all the way to 8300rpm. Great backshift too. Maybe I'm old school, but that was the way we used to clutch our mountain sleds. Low rpm smooth positive engagement. No unnecessary track spin or trenching. Very controllable power.

Again, probably not for everyone, but I'm loving it.