Pump gas turbo is a I/c really needed?

[roughrider99]

Hey guys I have twisted kit for my pro with the water to air I/c. Im on the fence of throwing it on or selling it, if I chose to run I would be running the 2860 and straight 91 pump gas, I'm thinking 5-6 lbs would be good fun and still keep the reliability up and the regular maintainence such as reeds, plugs, belts etc to a minimum for the best pull rope and go setup,

I ride this sled in the trees so I would like it to light up quick, and I have been pleasantly surprised how well this sled has been for the first 900 miles, just changed first belt, gonna change plugs before I ride next weekend, my bent a arm has held up to hard riding for the last 150 miles and I have yet to pull a wrench on this unit

For low boost are intake temps low enough without an inter cooler and still maintain optimum performance?

 

[Vi-PEC Powersports]

colder charge temps = more HP and less stress on the internals.Is it absolutely requiered on low boost application? No.

 

[TurboM700]

To answer your question NO. Infact a low boost with IC can hurt you as they can heat soak and cause spool up to be slower due to the extra volume of air need.

Try making a long pull without an IC right after you done this open the hood and touch your IC pipes see how hot they are.

I think you will be surprised with that low of boost how cool they are.

Just my 2 cents. I'm also not trying to sell you a 2500 dollar ECU.

Mike

 

[roughrider99]

Thanks for the help, I figured i didn't, twisted water to airs are setup to just tie in the cooling system not a separate circuit with dedicated cooler, I didn't want to add all the extra coolers and I wanted to keep it simple for quick spool low boost,

Precision theres no need to solicit on every post, its getting old espicially since your not a paying advertiser on the site. I know about the vipec, yes its good but out of budget for this build. I am putting one on my wrx sti type r rally car though

 

[Vi-PEC Powersports]

Precision theres no need to solicit on every post, its getting old espicially since your not a paying advertiser on the site. I know about the vipec, yes its good but out of budget for this build. I am putting one on my wrx sti type r rally car though

i'm sorry, i was under the impression you could be interested to know how a certain product can properly compensate a particular problem you are refering to.I'm in no way trying to sell you something, i am still interested to show,when proper, some features but not to sell , just for infos.

 

[roughrider99]

I only asked about the intercooler, I mentioned that Its for running a low boost setup and best reliabilty where as higher boost setup will always require a bit more attention and maintainence. I never brought up what I should do for fueling, I am familiar what I can do with the various efi setups

 

[jeepin270]

Why would a w/a use the stock coolant system? It doesnt make sence to me to pump 130 degree coolant through intercooler. If ur running a w/a it should have its own cooler and be pumping ice cold coolant through it.

 

[gus bohne]

Why ? because when you route it properly, the coolant temp going to the intercooler is ( in my case, my e tech turbos case and twisted case UNDER 70 degrees even in icy groomed trail conditions. Charge temps measured at the intake bell run at as low as 50 degrees and a high of 69 degrees at 8 psi on a 5/8ths mile pull at wide open.

Its ice cold coolant coming from the tunnel, it is not routed thru the engine at all, we bypass it and reintroduce it after the engine so as not to interfere with the engine temp. islandoo had pics of his version of my set up on his xp carb build on this site 3 yrs ago..

charge temps measured in the cases are often misleading. they show cold temps yet induce det very early exposing the true need to cool the air prior to the introduction of easily vaporized fuel.

Twisted set up is great, no pressure drop and no bog just fun smiles and no det lights looking like christmas on the dash !! LOL

Be cool
Gus

 

[Cody Phillips Racing]

Guys,

The only way to REALLY know the answer to this question is to have DATA. Otherwise it's an educated guess at best. I can tell you I've tuned several VIPEC sleds that all have different turbo kits. The turbo kits I have tuned are Silber, Turbo Performance, Rapid Turbo, Push Turbo, and my own personal turbo kit (one off deal). Some are intercooled, some are not. The coldest IAT's I've seen so far are from the PUSH kit using the third injector to cool the air charge, but we know the injector sprays right on the sensor so this can skew the numbers a bit. I've yet to see a log off a HM turbo kit with the stand alone intercooler to get an idea what's Shane's kit is running.

Either way you slice it, colder air gives more power. I've seen some turbo kits without intercoolers at 7psi using the stock airbox to draw it's air in from and they generally will get air temps up to around 175 degrees F. I know my intercooled sled holds the temps at around 140 degrees without a cold air intake system. However, I do feel a cold air and a little redesign would net me even lower temps, but I don't have the time to re-engineer everything this year. The intercooled sleds HOLD the air temp down during a long pull. The non intercooled once see a quick increase as boost comes on and a steady climb until roughly 2-3 seconds after a pull is completed.

Whether you intercool the air or not it's still gotta go through the crank case and it gets heated there. That is where another benefit of spraying your secondaries through the Reeds is a benefit IMO because the extra fuel going in there can promote good cooling and atomization.

 

[aus091]

intercooler

my personal opinion would be to run the i/c (i have only minimal experience with turbo sleds mind you). I have owned one kit that is i/c and one that wasnt and i can say that colder intake temps equate to less det issues. I also feel that the colder air flowing through the reeds will mean less reed maintenance also. Although i run higher boost (between 10-12.5 psi) i believe that the added lag is not an issue riding in the woods as long as you get used to it.

 

[gus bohne]

If their were no advantage to intercooling then we would see it in the field and on the dyno . Is that the case ? NO.

all carbed sleds send fuel in the same way as this injector mounted above the reed, all suzuki ( cat ) and polaris send fuel in the same spot ) those who cool charge have cooler charge temps for longer durations than those who dont. its not new science, its not wives tails its turbo rules of life.

 

[2XM3]

Yes intercoolers work very well, nowever, and I am going to speak from turbo car engines only, at low boost there are 2 factors aganist you, 1) at your boost level will it really drop your charge temp a measurable amount? 2) the intercooler is itself a restriction to the flow of the air and increases by a substantial amount the volume you must pressurize when going into boost.

In short run tests, ie drags, under 10-12 pounds we found ZERO gain from a intercooler and it did take more time to spool. Now thats at 75 deg intake air temp with icewater running throught the cooler vs nothing.

However, when we ran it for a extended period the heat soak comes into play and yes there the intercooled version kept its power level the same, while the non intercooled began to drop off.

Above this level of boost you really need something to keep the temps down in most all turbo applications.

Now also please remember im talking a race gas motor with zero det issues, not a pump gas deal that a person is trying to add more boost to. Also a good point here is your intake charge temp in a sled, mines 100% from outside air, sealed airbox to outside so on a normal day up here im at 10 degrees intake air, and thats really good, so as gus stated correctly you better be pulling your water from the cold side of the tunnel or you might just have a "interheater".....lol

 

[adam8781]

I think at 5-6 lbs it wouldn't be needed if you had a proper true cold air intake.

 

[roughrider99]

i'm gonna try intercooler on first, i'm going off engine coolant temps thats read off the factory gauge, as long as i'm in good snow its 130 degrees at the factory sensor so this is before the coolers,

my initial worry is when i ride some hardpack snow conditions and i need to take a tight trail up to some of the good riding spots, well its slow enough that scratchers dont kick snow to the coolers and it gets up to 180/190 pretty easily, i usually stop and throw snow on the coolers to maintain a a somewhat constant temp. but i figure if i got it that warm the intercooler heat soak enough that when i get on the throttle i'm gonna have some inconsistent tuning. But i'm gonna throw the kit on test it and throw on some extra sensors if need be to see what is going on in the complete picture

Thanks There was some good input.

 

[gmustangt]

i'm gonna try intercooler on first, i'm going off engine coolant temps thats read off the factory gauge, as long as i'm in good snow its 130 degrees at the factory sensor so this is before the coolers,

my initial worry is when i ride some hardpack snow conditions and i need to take a tight trail up to some of the good riding spots, well its slow enough that scratchers dont kick snow to the coolers and it gets up to 180/190 pretty easily, i usually stop and throw snow on the coolers to maintain a a somewhat constant temp. but i figure if i got it that warm the intercooler heat soak enough that when i get on the throttle i'm gonna have some inconsistent tuning. But i'm gonna throw the kit on test it and throw on some extra sensors if need be to see what is going on in the complete picture

Thanks There was some good input.

Dont bother doing it, its gonna have a negatve effect. Just run a CAI

If your truly running 5-6psi with a CAI your charge temps are gonna be below 100F almost always (spring riding may differ).

Your return water from the tunnel is gonna be 100F roughly.

So in almost every situation you will be heating the air!!!

 

[roughrider99]

Is there anyone with a Twisted turbo pro on the forum who can chime in on this?? Twisted was super popular with the cat guys, the way the air box and billet throttle boots attach is very odd. Seems like the ic is bolted down and just pushes everything together and seals with o rings with no solid connection? I have an incomplete kit so i'm just peicing together figuring out whats missing as i go along.

Anyone know where i can get the hardware for mounting turbine and compressor housings to the cartridge? need them ASAP

 

[MotorMouth]

Hey guys, instead of installing the intercooler, just spray nitrous at it. Incredibley cold and probably a similar install cost. Get ahold of Jason Houle @ Straightline Performance. He knows N2O. No button for me. My ViPec controlls it.